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Thread: Chesterfield Chippers

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Chesterfield Chippers

    The policy in the Chesterfield PD has changed.
    It used to be up to the Officer as to seizing a weapon for officer safety when making a traffic stop.

    Now it's mandatory to take it when the check shows a CHP, or when they see one.

    So Chippers be warned....Now all us lowly OC'ers have to do is stuff it in a secure container and keep our mouths shut.
    We're Special !
    Last edited by peter nap; 10-22-2013 at 11:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    The policy in the Chesterfield PD has changed.
    It used to be up to the Officer as to seizing a weapon for officer safety when making a traffic stop.

    Now it's mandatory to take it when the check shows a CHP, or when they see one.

    So Chippers be warned....Now all us lowly OC'ers have to do is stuff it in a secure container and keep our mouths shut.
    We're Special !
    Guess there are advantages of being on this side of the water..

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpguy View Post
    Guess there are advantages of being on this side of the water..
    Yep!

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    Makes you wonder, why the change?

    So...

    Light'em Up!

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpguy View Post
    Makes you wonder, why the change?

    So...

    Light'em Up!
    From what I understand. upper management was not aware of the old policy. When he found out a policy change was made.

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    The policy in the Chesterfield PD has changed.
    It used to be up to the Officer as to seizing a weapon for officer safety when making a traffic stop.

    Now it's mandatory to take it when the check shows a CHP, or when they see one.

    So Chippers be warned....Now all us lowly OC'ers have to do is stuff it in a secure container and keep our mouths shut.
    We're Special !
    I know you have "sources", but how did you come to learn this?
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    I know you have "sources", but how did you come to learn this?
    I honestly can't say so take it for what it's worth.

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    Not good.

    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I honestly can't say so take it for what it's worth.
    So if I have mine locked in the trunk or the glove box, they can now search my car just for a CHP???

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by va_tazdad View Post
    So if I have mine locked in the trunk or the glove box, they can now search my car just for a CHP???
    I doubt it Taz, if it's accessible according to the policy as I understand it, it's to be taken. I doubt they will search for any of them...just ask and since they already know you have a CHP, they will ask.
    Last edited by peter nap; 10-23-2013 at 03:13 AM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Chesterfield PD is turning into one of the most aggresively anti gun/RKBA agencies in the state - and the problem as well as the solution begins at the top.

    Sorry Col. but the buck stops here.


    Where does this mandatory disarmament begin and end? It seems clear that traffic stops are fair game, BUT how about if I have a break-in and call for an officer, or have a consensual conversation at a quick stop?

    Sorry sir, but I must disarm you for officer safety before I can take your report or tell you what time it is.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 10-23-2013 at 07:10 AM. Reason: added
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Say it ain't so?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Chesterfield PD is turning into one of the most aggresively anti gun/RKBA agencies in the state - and the problem as well as the solution begins at the top.

    Sorry Col. but the buck stops here.


    Where does this mandatory disarmament begin and end? It seems clear that traffic stops are fair game, BUT how about if I have a break-in and call for an officer, or have a consensual conversation at a quick stop?

    Sorry sir, but I must disarm you for officer safety before I can take your report or tell you what time it is.
    We are getting as bad as Henrico. I thought they only hired Fascists for school administrator positions. 8>(
    Last edited by va_tazdad; 10-23-2013 at 07:48 AM.

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    The policy in the Chesterfield PD has changed.
    It used to be up to the Officer as to seizing a weapon for officer safety when making a traffic stop.

    Now it's mandatory to take it when the check shows a CHP, or when they see one.

    So Chippers be warned....Now all us lowly OC'ers have to do is stuff it in a secure container and keep our mouths shut.
    We're Special !
    So, just to understand this correctly... If I am stopped by Chesterfield (or any other VA PD), and the 10-27 comes back that I have a CHP, and I tell the officer that I am NOT carrying, does the officer have the right to search my vehicle to verify that? Does the existence of my CHP give the officer RAS to perform a warrant-less search?
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  13. #13
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    So, just to understand this correctly... If I am stopped by Chesterfield (or any other VA PD), and the 10-27 comes back that I have a CHP, and I tell the officer that I am NOT carrying, does the officer have the right to search my vehicle to verify that? Does the existence of my CHP give the officer RAS to perform a warrant-less search?
    What I said James, was that in Chesterfield, the policy was that the officer was to seize the weapon. The officers no longer have the option of not taking it as in the past. This is a new Chesterfield policy.

    The policy change was directed at people who have CHP's because that will notify the officer. I'm sure they will take any weapon they see or are told about CHP or not.

    Nothing in the policy says anything about searches but I believe they have the authority to search the immediate area for weapons if thy feel like it.....Officer Safety!

    They have no way to know if a non CHP has a weapon or is likely to have one, other than ask.

    It's illegal to lie to the cop but you don't have to answer either.

    Officer: Sir, do you have any weapons?
    Oc'er: You're perfectly safe officer, the most dangerous thing I have is my sharp wit.

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    What I said James, was that in Chesterfield, the policy was that the officer was to seize the weapon. The officers no longer have the option of not taking it as in the past. This is a new Chesterfield policy.

    The policy change was directed at people who have CHP's because that will notify the officer. I'm sure they will take any weapon they see or are told about CHP or not.

    Nothing in the policy says anything about searches but I believe they have the authority to search the immediate area for weapons if thy feel like it.....Officer Safety!

    They have no way to know if a non CHP has a weapon or is likely to have one, other than ask.

    It's illegal to lie to the cop but you don't have to answer either.

    Officer: Sir, do you have any weapons?
    Oc'er: You're perfectly safe officer, the most dangerous thing I have is my sharp wit.
    I demur ... I would not want the officer to seize my wit, sharp or otherwise, for his own safety. :-)

    Seems to me we all read earlier of the case where someone was stopped for speeding and then arrested for having a firearm in their vehicle. (I'll have to research that thread.) Again, my question is if the 10-27 returns the existence of a CHP, does that give the officer "permission" to search the vehicle even if I tell him/her truthfully that I am not carrying, concealed or otherwise?

    You are certainly justified in your glee that non-CHPers will only risk firearm seizure if they are openly and visibly carrying or if they volunteer that information ... and it is unsettling that the existence of a background-checked, law-abiding citizen would be subject to increased scrutiny v. one who is simply exercising their Virginia Constitutional Right of OC.

    I guess that's one one of the downsides of getting a CHP and being entered into their database...
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    to increased scrutiny v. one who is simply exercising their Virginia Constitutional Right of OC.

    I guess that's one one of the downsides of getting a CHP and being entered into their database...
    Digging deeply between the lines and hidden behind my wit ...that was really my point as well as to notify people that their gun will be taken during a detention, in Chesterfield.

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Digging deeply between the lines and hidden behind my wit ...that was really my point as well as to notify people that their gun will be taken during a detention, in Chesterfield.
    Peter, I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here, but the nut of my question is: In your opinion, does the existence of a CHP give the Chesterfield (or any other cop) the RAS to search me or my vehicle?
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    Peter, I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here, but the nut of my question is: In your opinion, does the existence of a CHP give the Chesterfield (or any other cop) the RAS to search me or my vehicle?
    Not IMO, but that may not stop him.
    http://www.pagunblog.com/2011/12/29/...ble-suspicion/

    http://www.volokh.com/2011/12/29/doe...on-of-a-crime/

    Remember if he asks you if you are carrying, you must answer honestly. You may chose to play words games (avoidance) but that may attract other charges - impeding an investigation - or at least lengthen your detainment.

    The vehicle search is much more fraught with problems. I will not consent to such w/o a warrant.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    Peter, I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here, but the nut of my question is: In your opinion, does the existence of a CHP give the Chesterfield (or any other cop) the RAS to search me or my vehicle?
    IMO James...they don't need RAS for a pat down or quick search of where you're sitting, but anything more thorough than that they need a Search Warrant....and no, just the existence of a CHP does not give them RAS or really anything other than...... "this fellow has a CHP so I need to ask him."

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Remember if he asks you if you are carrying, you must answer honestly. .
    Grape - I think you misspoke here. You do not have to admit to carrying. You do have to display your CHP upon demand.
    Last edited by ProShooter; 10-23-2013 at 12:34 PM.
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    Originally Posted by Grapeshot

    Remember if he asks you if you are carrying, you must answer honestly.
    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    Grape - I think you misspoke here. You do not have to admit to carrying. You do have to display your CHP upon demand.
    Am I now permitted to lie w/o recourse? That would level the playing field
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    Grape - I think you misspoke here. You do not have to admit to carrying. You do have to display your CHP upon demand.
    I think what he was saying Jim, is you can't lie....Like saying "no".

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Not IMO, but that may not stop him.
    http://www.pagunblog.com/2011/12/29/...ble-suspicion/

    http://www.volokh.com/2011/12/29/doe...on-of-a-crime/

    Remember if he asks you if you are carrying, you must answer honestly. You may chose to play words games (avoidance) but that may attract other charges - impeding an investigation - or at least lengthen your detainment.

    The vehicle search is much more fraught with problems. I will not consent to such w/o a warrant.
    And yes.....word games are a slippery slope so if you don't have the disposition for it, don't.

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    Grape - I think you misspoke here. You do not have to admit to carrying. You do have to display your CHP upon demand.
    I haven't yet figured out how to embed multiple quotes in a response, but this refers to the most recent postings ... and is posted in my own frustration regarding how the law may be "interpreted" by three very knowledgeable members, and much more by how a LEO may act. (And, thanks, Grape, for the cites.)

    Scenario: I am driving and get pulled over by a LEO. He runs my plate and DL and gets advised of my CHP status. He asks if I am carrying -- I have not volunteered that information previously nor have I given him my CHP along with my DL, registration and insurance card. Upon being asked, I tell him truthfully that I am not carrying concealed. (I may be carrying my firearm secured in a container or not carrying at all, and I do not inform him of that, only that I am not carrying concealed.) Does that give him RAS?

    If I am not carrying concealed, do I have to show him my CHP on demand? I've been told I don't have to disclose or show it to him if I'm not carrying concealed.

    I'm not trying to be obtuse here, just trying to nail this thing down, and I appreciate your help.
    Last edited by JamesCanby; 10-23-2013 at 12:51 PM.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    I haven't yet figured out how to embed multiple quotes in a response, but this refers to the most recent postings ... and is posted in my own frustration regarding how the law may be "interpreted" by three very knowledgeable members, and much more by how a LEO may act. (And, thanks, Grape, for the cites.)

    Scenario: I am driving and get pulled over by a LEO. He runs my plate and DL and gets advised of my CHP status. He asks if I am carrying -- I have not volunteered that information previously nor have I given him my CHP along with my DL, registration and insurance card. Upon being asked, I tell him truthfully that I am not carrying concealed. (I may be carrying my firearm secured in a container or not carrying at all, and I do not inform him of that, only that I am not carrying concealed.) Does that give him RAS?

    If I am not carrying concealed, do I have to show him my CHP on demand? I've been told I don't have to disclose or show it to him if I'm not carrying concealed.

    I'm not trying to be obtuse here, just trying to nail this thing down, and I appreciate your help.
    Multiple quotes - PM sent.

    Most officers know how to play the game and will ask you if you have a gun in the vehicle with you, but if you are not actually CCing then no you do not have to produce your CHP.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  25. #25
    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Multiple quotes - PM sent.

    Most officers know how to play the game and will ask you if you have a gun in the vehicle with you, but if you are not actually CCing then no you do not have to produce your CHP.
    Thanks, Grape. That verifies what I thought I had been told in class. And thanks to Pro and Peter for their input -- no disrespect intended by the "interpretation" comment, just wanted to gain a better understanding of what I may be faced with if stopped, especially since I have the big orange VCDL sticker on the back of my car...

    Thanks also, Grape, for the instructional message.
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