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Thread: would this child be alive if OC was legal in California ?

  1. #1
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    would this child be alive if OC was legal in California ?

    http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/ca...ll-13-year-old


    California banned the open carry of long guns last year. Prior to that, it was legal and possible for law abiding citizens to open carry long guns.

    Now that its illegal, in a cops eye and mind, only a criminal would open carry.

    So a cop is driving down the street and he sees a child carrying what appears to be a long gun and he automatically thinks "dangerous criminal".

    Cop shoots and kills kid.

    In my opinion, if open carry was still legal in California it would have at least given the cop a possibility that this person wasn't breaking any law and should approach with an open mind.

    Also, since previously in California open carry was only legal if the gun was unloaded, the police had good reason to believe the gun wasn't an immediate threat.

    Since unloaded open carry was banned, the officer had to think this gun was loaded and carried by a criminal.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    I think it's a combination of things. Some California cops are out of control, and that's partly because of gang activity and the rich targets out there. Would they have shot anyway? Jeeze I don't know. I mean here cops have shot people in their driveways checking their cars, in their garages, in mistaken houses. A little 5'2, 105lb filipino woman holding a paring knife was shot 5 times in Costco.

    Your premise does have some validity in theory, but then Ca cops have always been against open carry and long gun carry, even when it was legal and looked for ways to hook people up, stopping guys OC-ing who were walking their dogs, fer kristsake.

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    There is insufficient information about this incident to draw any reasonable conclusions.

    Without knowing definatively whether the boy complied with the deputies intructions or turned and raised the replica as if to fire, making any deductions about whether it had anything to do with the ban on long gun open carry is purely academic.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    A sad situation. Gang shootings, and other violent acts are fairly common in Kalifonia... and cops like to go home to their families after shift. Put them together, shake them up and you have a deadly cocktail. I hope there was a police dashcam in operation during this incident, and that it will show the story as it truly unfolded. I would imagine that killing a child is a very heavy burden upon one's soul, especially if there was no justifiable immediate threat present. On the other hand, being dead yourself has no positive aspects to it, and the widows and children of slain officers also carry a heavy burden. Will the truth be known? BTSOM. Pax...
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    Interesting. Saw a news clip on this incident just now.

    in court it had an officer holding up 2 kalashnikov style rifles, one being real, one being the childs airsoft.
    the airsoft had the end of the barrel missing, ya know the orange part?

    Makes me wonder who removed it.

  6. #6
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    The photo of the "AK-47" from this site http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-deputies.html

    and the photos of AK-47s from this site https://www.google.com/search?q=ak+4...h=946#imgdii=_

    Hmmm...

    More facts are required. Though, the holder of the facts are those two cops and their LEA.....hmmm.

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    The entire end of the barrel has been removed, including the front sight, and the comp/flash suppressor, which would have been bright orange. Who removed this would tell alot about this story

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    Quote Originally Posted by onus View Post
    http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/ca...ll-13-year-old


    California banned the open carry of long guns last year. Prior to that, it was legal and possible for law abiding citizens to open carry long guns.

    Now that its illegal, in a cops eye and mind, only a criminal would open carry.

    So a cop is driving down the street and he sees a child carrying what appears to be a long gun and he automatically thinks "dangerous criminal".

    Cop shoots and kills kid.

    In my opinion, if open carry was still legal in California it would have at least given the cop a possibility that this person wasn't breaking any law and should approach with an open mind.

    Also, since previously in California open carry was only legal if the gun was unloaded, the police had good reason to believe the gun wasn't an immediate threat.

    Since unloaded open carry was banned, the officer had to think this gun was loaded and carried by a criminal.


    I Agree, however It is a sad day for that family, and we should back them up.
    I hope they sue to the hilt !
    There are TO MANY stupid gun laws in this state.
    We should unite like Arizona, and Nevada, and fight all these bad gun laws.

    There is not a group of OC'ers that I know of in this state that is organised to fight these laws.
    We all should call our Congressman and demand that AB 144 and that dumb law AB1527 I believe it was
    for no rifle carry be repeal Immediately.
    What I think of the shooting was a tragedy and negligent homicide.
    I fell bad for the family.

    I wonder if Calguns would get Involved ?
    The boy was carrying a toy pistol in his waistband also.

    If UOC was still legal they would have had to "Check his toy gun" to see it was not loaded !

    Sad day for the State of California.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    There is insufficient information about this incident to draw any reasonable conclusions.

    Without knowing definatively whether the boy complied with the deputies intructions or turned and raised the replica as if to fire, making any deductions about whether it had anything to do with the ban on long gun open carry is purely academic.
    Maybe C3 ... but if OC was legal, it could not have resulted in any worse of a result for the poor kid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Maybe C3 ... but if OC was legal, it could not have resulted in any worse of a result for the poor kid.
    Even if oc was legal, the apparent 30 rnd magazine would not be

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Maybe C3 ... but if OC was legal, it could not have resulted in any worse of a result for the poor kid.
    Okay. Let's assume that open carry of a long gun was still legal in all areas of California.

    The boy would still be dead if he turned and pointed a real or fake AK-47 at police. This is one of many facts that we do not know. This is why speculation is not helpful- we do not have all the facts. The outcome may very well have been identical.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
    www.calgunsfoundation.org/amazon
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    Cops are in a real bind with anything looking like a real firearm. There is a crime site called warriorspathredux.com that has a lot of videos of cops getting shot. I would guess that cops are probably shown video in there training of other cops getting injured and/or killed and why that may have happened. It would be strange if they didn't use video as a learning tool. What I'm getting at is that, in general it seems, the cops that were hit were the ones where the bad guy shot first. I powerful motivator for them I'm sure, but shooting first and asking questions later is not law enforcement. So whether OC or CC is legal or not, I don't think it really changes anything for a cop. For their own safety they have to assume it is real. Now I also would think that they knowingly assume the risk of having to wait just by being cops. As for the airsoft firearm, taking off the orange tip to an airsoft gun and carrying it around is just really weird. I have a perfect replica of a sig saurer not counting the orange tip. Taking that orange tip off and carrying it around is asking for a misunderstanding of grand dimensions. Clearly horrific and tragic in this situation. Like other's have said. Having video of the encounter would make a world of difference.

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    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    "Napolean how come you guys get away with killing other animals?"
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  15. #15
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    The civil suit will be less likely to be successful.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  16. #16
    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattinWA View Post
    The entire end of the barrel has been removed, including the front sight, and the comp/flash suppressor, which would have been bright orange. Who removed this would tell alot about this story
    +1 The Deputy could not easily distinguish the non-lethal "assault rifle" with the ORANGE portion removed from it's very lethal counterpart. California has so many well-armed street gangs (well-armed compared to the patrol officer, as in illegally acquired automatic weapons), that the patrol LEO's probably get real "skittish" when faced with any weapon that appears capable of firing multiple projectiles with a single pull of the trigger. Whoever modified the TOY, should be held responsible for the death of young Lopez... not the cop. Pax...
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    Not a good thing to shoot a child holding a toy gun.

    If it was not a toy and person holding it if he was good with it less then a second to put rounds on target, not so good a couple of seconds, poor with it 5 to 10 seconds to put rounds on target.

    Shot time periods to decide if it was real or a toy guessing wrong the out come isn't good for the officer.

    I noticed a huge different on how officers handle these type of calls depending on the area they work and gun laws of those areas.

    The officers that work large rural areas where guns are common and people walking with them are common at times of the year are not very jumpy when they see some one carrying.

    Those from cities where guns are out lawed or not common readily pull guns issue harsh commands even if the person is legally in procession.

    This was illustrated during this training scenario.

    Set two fellows shooting after hours at the local public gun range.

    The rural officers walked in alert and ready and calmly had a nice conversation them about shooting after hours and their guns. Told them it was not a good idea as it could bring a lot of problems for the range and that they needed to leave.

    The big city officers went in with guns drawn in full tactical mode and started yelling commands at them ready to arrest or shoot them.

    The political climate, the attitude of management, the area, the legal procession laws all have a effect on how an officer handles a man with a gun call.

    Plus how the call comes in and explained to dispatch and the officer has a huge effect also.

    Yes it very much makes a different if guns are legal to carry or not and the officers are use to it.
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