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Detained and booted

bhthib3381

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2013
Messages
21
Location
lafayette, la
I got caught without my voice recorder this morning. I know, never leave the house without it.

I was going into Wal Mart on the Thruway in Lafayette early this morning. As soon as I entered, the Sheriff inside called for me to stop. I complied and the sheriff asked me what I was doing with the firearm. I explained to him that the open carrying of a firearm is legal in the state of Louisiana. I then asked him if I was being detained. He said that I wasn't, so I turned to leave. He ordered me to stop, which I did. I asked again if I was being detained or if I was free to go. He acknowledged that I was being detained and ordered me to place my hands above my head for his safety, with which I complied. I asked why I was being detained and he pointed to my firearm.

I explained again that the weapon was being carried legally. He asked if I had a concealed carry permit. I told him that I did not need one. At this time he ordered me to take a seat with my hands above my head and stepped aside with the second sheriff that was there. She actually explained to him that there was nothing illegal with what I was doing.

After their chat, he came back and asked for my ID. I gave him my name and birth date. He again asked for ID and I refused to show my ID, and explained to him that this was an illegal detention.

He called the store manager and asked what the policy was for firearms in the store. She said that she needed to check and left.
At this time the original officer stepped outside, presumably to run my name. I explained to the female officer that I was upset and that I was going to file a complaint. She quickly said that it was the other officer that had detained me and that she understood that there were no illegalities involved with what I was doing.
The manager returned and said that store policy was that no firearms allowed, because she didn't know if I was going to rob the store.
I asked officer friendly if I could leave, and she said that I could.

On the way out, officer bully stopped me. I asked if I was free to go. He said yes and I turned to walk away. He again stopped me and I repeated "Am I free to go".
He said he wanted to talk, and I repeated "Am I free to go". Every time that he started to ask a question, I repeated "Am I free to go."
It only took ten or fifteen repeats for him to relent and allow me on my way.

I've already sent Wal Mart corporate an email, but here's the kicker.
I called the Sheriff's department and spoke to the supervisor on duty. I explained to him what went down.
I won't go into a large amount of details due to the length of my post already, but he said "I know the games you open carriers play" then inferred that I was out to harass the officers.
Then he gave me the song and dance about, "the officer sees you carrying and he doesn't know if you're a good guy or a bad guy", then the officer safety thing.
I argued with him, that the detention was illegal, and he told me that if I felt my rights were violated I should file a lawsuit. After that I just hung up while he was still talking.

Funny thing, while officer friendly was chatting, she said she understood why I was carrying, as the Thruway was a terrible neighborhood and she said she wouldn't be caught dead without her firearm off duty. We here know that cops should be the only ones able to defend themselves. LAC only need a cell phone.
And the cops wonder why the population hates them.
 
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bhthib3381

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2013
Messages
21
Location
lafayette, la
I was detained at the store, not arrested. So there are no arrest reports. About the most that I can FOIA is the call from the sheriff to the station, if there was one. Again, the officer went outside and I remained inside with the second officer. I believe he called it in, but I'm not sure. I don't know what else there would be.

I got the names of the manager and both officers before leaving the store.
Officer friendly even lent me her pen and a tore a sheet of paper out of her notebook so I could write them down. I think she wishes to be left out of the complaint.

I doubt a civil rights attorney would have an interest in the case, because I was a moron who left the house without a voice recorder.
So, I will go to the station tomorrow and talk to someone there about it, but I doubt that it goes very far.

I have just gone to the other wal mart in Lafayette and purchased batteries for my voice recorder. And I will never leave home without it again.

The Wal Mart that I had this happen in is the one I go to often. There is always a LEO near the entrance, and they've always been courteous and, while most have noticed the weapon, none have ever given me a second thought.
I had become complacent about carrying the recorder due to this. Live and learn. Won't catch me asleep again. :banghead:
 
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1245A Defender

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2009
Messages
4,365
Location
north mason county, Washington, USA
Well,,,,

Arrest is not the measure of a color of law civil rights suit...

Study Ohare v. mcCally,,, or is it ohare v. Alamagordo.
Ohare was never arrested, but he got detained, just cause he had a gun!!!!
He got 21000 dollars!!!

dont go to the cop shop to ask questions,, dont tip your hand to them that way.
this is the time for your lawyer, and your FOIA requests...
Your cop needs to reiterate to the record, that he detained you because of your gun,,,
Your VERY legal gun!!!
 

HeroHog

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2008
Messages
628
Location
Shreveport, LA
I agree, going to the police station will do you no good and will only cause you more grief. Consult an attorney or let it go are your choices at this point. Without a recording you have a tough fight ahead of you I am afraid. Your best bet is to follow up with Wal-Mart and their manager and have WM tell their cops what their actual policy is.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
I was detained at the store, not arrested. So there are no arrest reports. About the most that I can FOIA is the call from the sheriff to the station, if there was one. --snipped--
Arrest vs detain is a matter of degree. You were not free to leave + color of law. You were greatly inconvenienced and humiliated - your rights were violated.

There should be field notes, electronic transmissions, etc. You will never know unless you ask for them. Strongly recommend that you speak to an attorney and post no more here w/o approval.
 

DocWalker

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
1,922
Location
Mountain Home, Idaho, USA
I agree,

1. Take your recorder next time.

2. Print and take the Wallmart policy with you (from corporate)

3. Have a friend go with you (let him/her vidio tape if needed)

4. Contact a lawyer.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Educate through the best mean available - that means with good, solid representation - whether in the legislature or the courts.
 

Fallschirjmäger

Active member
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,823
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
You, sir... done did GOOD.:banana:

You maintained your composure.
You didn't give in to bullying and kept repeating the key phrases, "Am I being detained?" and "Am I free to go?"
You didn't surrender any unnecessary documents.
and
You taught an officer that he is neither a god nor a demigod.

That's a win for Freedom.


I wonder if he'll go crying to PoliceOne or Officer.com about how the mean citizen disrespected his "Authoritah"
 
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georg jetson

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
2,416
Location
Slidell, Louisiana
You, sir... done did GOOD.:banana:

You maintained your composure.
You didn't give in to bullying and kept repeating the key phrases, "Am I being detained?" and "Am I free to go?"
You didn't surrender any unnecessary documents.
and
You taught an officer that he is neither a god nor a demigod.

That's a win for Freedom.

I was gonna post something along these lines, but why reinvent the wheel...

+1000!!!

Oh, btw, please seek out an attorney. It's unfortunate that we have to go to such lengths to enforce the law on so called law enforcement, but it is our duty. If you let them get away with violating your rights, they'll continue to bully.
 
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BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,069
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
I got caught without my voice recorder this morning. I know, never leave the house without it...
You need to file a records/FOIA request for the training materials the Sheriff's dept uses with regard to the open carry of firearms, Terry, any state ID law, etc. and for the list of students who have attended those courses.

I'll help you with more if you need it, but that should get their attention.

If this happens again, give no information, or the bare minimum before you do your records request - don't complain, because a superior intent on protecting his subordinates will make sure that the story covers his officer's hindquarters.
 

cirrusly

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2013
Messages
291
Location
North Dakota
Funny thing, while officer friendly was chatting, she said she understood why I was carrying, as the Thruway was a terrible neighborhood and she said she wouldn't be caught dead without her firearm off duty.

I'll bet if there was some compiled data of unlawful OC stops and the economic well-being of a given neighborhood, one would find an inverse correlation between: "number of stops" and "average per capita income." I OC fairly regularly throughout Fairfax and Arlington counties and never have had a LEO treat me unlawfully. Two encounters in the last 6 months: both positive.
 

cirrusly

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2013
Messages
291
Location
North Dakota
I'll bet if there was some compiled data of unlawful OC stops and the economic well-being of a given neighborhood, one would find an inverse correlation between: "number of stops" and "average per capita income." I OC fairly regularly throughout Fairfax and Arlington counties and never have had a LEO treat me unlawfully. Two encounters in the last 6 months: both positive.

To clarify, I noticed this thread is in Louisiana. I'm speaking of counties in Virginia. However, I would still venture this hypothesis. Just wish I had some definitive data.
 

HPmatt

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
1,467
Location
Dallas
If you were in the front of the Walmart, I am pretty sure there is surveillance recording of your detention and in-public humiliation. Would expect Walmart security to be able to retreive it within 7 days or perhaps 14 days. Don't know how long they would keep it - but would get going on that asap w an attorney.
 

4sooth

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Messages
126
Location
, Louisiana, USA
1245A Defender--the case is St John v McColley et al (2009). St John posted an explanation of the entire arrest and court proceedings on this site last year. The arrogance of the department and the individual officers was appalling. He offered the department a chance to calmly discuss the event and apologize--no harm done. They refused and he sued the department--and won. He then offered the individual officers a way out by having them agree to receive education on the Constitution and firearms law--AT HIS EXPENSE!! They refused--so each was sued in his individual capacity.
 

bhthib3381

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2013
Messages
21
Location
lafayette, la
BB62 - I believe that state law for Louisiana allows an exemption for training materials by some agencies. In other words, some agencies do not have to produce this information upon request. This was a cursory reading of the material earlier, but I'll have to check.

And on that note, I'd like to thank everyone for their advice and encouragement. For the time being, I'll take the sage advice of Grapeshot and not communicate any more about this issue.
If anyone has any further suggestions or advice, I will continue to monitor the thread.
Hope you all have a wonderful weekend.
 

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,069
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
BB62 - I believe that state law for Louisiana allows an exemption for training materials by some agencies. In other words, some agencies do not have to produce this information upon request. This was a cursory reading of the material earlier, but I'll have to check...
Regardless, you should ask for everything you want. Let them deny you if they like (or dare).

Don't restrict your questions based on what you think they'll give you. What's the worst they can do - deny you?? THEN you may have grounds for an appeal of their denial.

Good luck. If you want my input further, please PM me, since you're dropping off the thread I will too.
 

MSG Laigaie

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
3,239
Location
Philipsburg, Montana
I went thru a similar situation recently. Everyone is correct, file for copies of everything. Write the incident down in detail. File for the LEOs personnel jacket, you may find a pattern of abuse. You may find out he is a brady cop. Radio trans when he ran your numbers may be interesting considering his attitude.
Bottom line is, he stepped in it. He knew he was wrong when advised by his partner. He could not back down without "losing face" so he tried to wipe the dog sht off on you. IF he gets away with this by your not complaining, he will do it again. Remember, he works for YOU!
 
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