b0neZ
Regular Member
Signs aside, if an owner or employee acting in place of the owner/management calls the police for any reason involving a patron, would that not automatically make the police a de facto "agent"?
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Gun Free Zone reaches goal of 100 businesses recruited. (List Of Businesses)
- Thread starter XD45PlusP
- Start date
golddigger14s
Activist Member
Why any debate? Real simple, you see one of the unarmed victim zone stickers you go somewhere else. Take your gun/money elsewhere. I could really care less about the "legalities", but more about their mentality that will direct me to their competitor. Even places like bars where it is already illegal, if they were to display one of these stickers, I would still go else where. I'm glad I don't live in the "McGoober Zone".
Jeff Hayes
Regular Member
Have you read the franchise agreement? If you have not you have no way of knowing what the franchisee can or can not do. Nor do you know if Subway would be breaking any agreement with the franchisee since you do not know what is in the agreement. Most franchise agreements require the franchisee to follow all state, federal and local laws, but since I have not read their individual agreements I have no way of knowing. I do have a clue because I have read quite a few franchise agreements over the years and I can not remember a single one that did not require the franchisee to follow all state, federal and local laws.
I think we badly need a new rule on OCDO as well and that rule would involve citing a valid source for you statement.....................................OH wait OCDO does have that rule.
Please cite your source for stating Subway would be breaking the franchise agreement with the franchisee. I am asking since I have no way to know for sure.
One last thing this is not our or your or my OCDO, nor does we carry any weight in making the rules for OCDO, you are presumptuous Sir.
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Jeff Hayes
Regular Member
EMNofSeattle
Regular Member
If the franchisee calls the police and asks them to remove you for trespass they will remove you, the police do not know nor care about the franchise agreement between a subway and corporate. that's a civil matter involving contract.
on the other hand, you entering a business and remaining is a criminal matter involving violation of trespass laws.
Freedom1Man
Regular Member
Nor do they know if you were asked to leave before they got there.
So, no, it's not an automatic trespass.
sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
Cite the law that gives them that authority.
EMNofSeattle
Regular Member
Criminal Trespass in the first degree, you seem smart enough to use google to finish from there.
Jeff Hayes
Regular Member
Nice deflection but that is only part of what you said. Please cite your source for stating Subway would be breaking the franchise agreement with the franchisee. If you can not then retract your statement.
EMNofSeattle
Regular Member
I said if Subway is unwilling to break their agreement (meaning terminate it or in some way sanction their franchisee for not following a corporate policy) then whatever the franchisee says for rules goes.
if you complain to corporate and they talk to the franchisee, and the franchisee says no way in hell he'll let legal guns in his franchise Subway must have a clause that allows them to terminat a franchise agreement for non compliance with corporate standards, if they're non willing to exercise such a power then the no guns policy at a particular franchise stands.
Jeff Hayes
Regular Member
You simply do not know what their agreement is or what any of the parties may or may not do, yet you continue to postulate and put forth imaginary what ifs like the are solid facts please stop. Stop representing your opinion as fact. Moving on!
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CitizenJohn
Regular Member
Cite?
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Freedom1Man
Regular Member
He won't he wants more forum rules and can't even follow the current ones.
CitizenJohn
Regular Member
Citing a RCW that does not define "Criminal Trespass" is not a response.
I refer you to handgunlaw.us -- click on Washington state -- scroll down to "Do no gun signs have the force of law." You will notice that the authors of this website state that the signs do not have the force of law in Washington. Now select Oregon and you will notice that the authors indicate a different story for Oregon and cite a statute to back it up.
I'm just sayin'
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ShooterMcGavin
Regular Member
Ok, so what about this point that was brought up?
I suspect, but do not know, that if an officer says "they called to have us remove you" and if you assert yourself in the following way... "I have not been asked by the management to leave and you do not work here", rather than working with you to make the request-to-leave clearly come from an employee, they will do what they can to make your life difficult. That could mean arresting you and just having you fight a criminal trespass charge in court. It's not really any skin off their back.
At least they are being accurate. It changes the conversation alright. Of course, it doesn't do anything for actually curbing gun violence except to keep it socially acceptable to be an unarmed victim.
Any progress being made on the illegality of using the Office of the Mayor in these things?
Difdi
Regular Member
I wish you would move on. What he said is completely accurate. He admitted he doesn't know, but NEITHER DO YOU.
sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
You left out a very important part, someone employed at the store has to ask you to leave first, cops don't get to just act as agents of private business.
sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
Jeff Hayes
Regular Member
I wish you had better reading comprehension. What ENM said on 10/26/13 @ 926 was not accurate much less completely accurate ENM does this on an ongoing basis and on an ongoing basis I and quite a few others correct/challenge him. My post on 10/26/13 @ 942 I clearly state that I do not know. In my post 10/27/13 @ 311 I clearly said I was moving on and would have if you could read and actually understand what you are reading.
If you think my posts violate OCDO rules in any way please flag them, if you do not like my posts then please do not read them, trust me when I say I really do not care ojne way or the other. Just because you disagree with me does not mean you should shout at me in all caps. Try putting forth a legitimate argument, instead of your opinion that ENM is completely accurate, by backing up his statements with facts. MOVING ON.