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Thread: Bad Areas

  1. #1
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Bad Areas

    Does anyone OC in bad areas of towns or cities? Anyone actually live in or near high crime areas and OC? I'm curious because it seems most people that OC live in more rural areas where crime is very low. But if the reason for OC is to deter bad guys, it seems there wouldn't be as many bad guys in rural areas. Not saying it's perfectly safe in places that have low crime, I'm talking about obvious bug differences like OC in Detroit as opposed to OC in downtown (insert small town with sub 5,000 population).

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    Welcome to OCDO.

    I moved here from Charleston, SC, where I was once active in Grassroots Gun Rights SC scfirearms.org. Then we maintained a list of no-guns posted businesses. Late one night I was called by the list maintainer to verify a posting in darkest downtown Charleston - OC is still illegal in SC. I was glad that I was armed. There, my chief of police told me to be a good nosy neighbor in response to some incidences of intimidation, and I took to OC on my curtilage.

    I now have <700 neighbors, by census, and our most significant crime is underaged drinking. I OC or CC always IAW the law.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Welcome to OCDO. You might want to edit your profile to say which state you are from. Sometimes knowing that can help get you the best possible answer instead of a general one.

    But to respond to your question - some gun writer once said "Don't go stupid places with stupid people to do stupid things." (Often referred to as the "3 Stupids Rule".)

    Sometimes a person needs to go to an area know to be "bad". Taking measures to protect yourself when going into a situation like that is just plain good planning and preparation, the same as making sure your cell phone is charged up, your gas tank is at least half-full, your battery and tires and headlights are in good condition, and that someone knows where you are going and about when you are expected to return.

    Intentionally going into a "bad" area while OCing, or OCing while intentionally going into a "bad" area, ups the reasons for considering more than a Level-I (friction fit) retention holster and possibly as well being somewhat proficient in handgun retention techniques.

    Intentionally pinning $20 bills onto your clothing and cruising the "bad" sections of town probably fit in the "3 Stupids" rule, especially (IMHO) if you go with a bunch of folks to video what happens.

    Intentionally going into a "bad" section of town to check on property you own there or operate your store that is located there, or the like is most likely outside the "3 Stupids) rule. Going to retrieve a car that you/your buddy left there last night because you/he were too drunk to drive may or may not violate the rule.

    One of the posters here is a professional videographer and he does a suignificant amount of work that involves being in the "bad" areas. He may or not OC when doing his work, but there is no question he has some means of self defense other than his charming smile and good looks, should those and his wit fail him.

    Hope this gives you at least part of the answer you were looking for.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

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  4. #4
    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    I used to live in the Sandcreek area of Colorado Springs. If I had been so disposed to do so at that time - I could have put my self in a justified deadly force use scenario any given night of the week by merely taking a casual stroll down a nearby thoroughfare after dark. Needless to say ...since it's not my responsibility to "police" my community I always passed on such opportunities. I still do.

    Actually, tonight my wife and I are required to attend a choral presentation in which our Granddaughter is involved. The neighborhood is "questionable" territory to be charitable - especially on Saturday nights. Hopefully all goes well. Some very heavy rain is forecast - so maybe the night crawlers will hold up under their crawl spaces for most of the evening.

    Left to my own prerogatives I would never put us in a location like this after dark. The sheep in our society however prefer not to disturb their sense of tranquility by concerning themselves with night crawlers - so every now and then us sheepdogs get snookered into situations we would otherwise avoid.

    Situations like this one tonight tend to present particularly "awkward" legal considerations. Fortunately however tonight's situation is covered by our good old preemptive 2nd Amendment we are always chatting about.
    Last edited by rushcreek2; 10-26-2013 at 04:04 PM.

  5. #5
    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Just because I carry a gun I'm not going anywhere I wouldn't normally go. It's not my job to be the police, but just protect myself if the "bad" ends up in my usual locations.
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
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  6. #6
    Regular Member XD40sc's Avatar
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    Where are the places that bad people do bad things? Just about everywhere.

    Grandson is with tonight, and needed cough meds, so off we went to the drugstore. The same store, in a nice part of town, where a customer was grabbed as a hostage in a robbery attempt a couple of weeks ago.

    There was another drug store hostage story on news this week. People that are doing robberies for drugs are very desperate and dangerous. I will not go into a pharmacy without my gun as the druggies are getting desperate for their next fix.

    Sent via 300 baud dial-up

  7. #7
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    I'm actually from MA, I apologize for not stating that previously. While MA you can OC, not many guys do. Kind of frowned upon I guess. I ask this because I live in a pretty large city that has a significant crime rate. I mean like top 15 in the country. So for someone like me, I literally can't carry OC without hitting a bad area (gang/ drug activity). With that being said, I carry 99% of the time when I'm out of the house but it's always concealed. I've taken extra measures to practice and get it to where I can operate from a concealed fashion just as fast as the average guy who carries OC. The reason I even asked this question is because while reading through this forum it seems alot of guys state a main reason to OC is to prevent crime (makes sense), but how do guys go about doing that if they don't carry in bad areas? Not trying to sound like a circular question (can't prevent crime in an area that your likely to have crime since you won't carry there, and OC in an area where the chances of an assault are extremely low). Hope that makes sense guys and I appreciate the warm welcome. This OC thing is a new concept to me but I like to expand ideas and learn where I can.

  8. #8
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Stay away from them. Just because you carry a sidearm doesn't mean you're going to win in a gunfight.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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  9. #9
    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    The primary responsibility for crime prevention has been delegated to state and local law enforcement agencies.

    I'm merely exercising my right to self defense if , and when I personally prevent the successful carrying out of a crime.

    Displaying, or bringing my handgun to bear upon another person is something I never want to be compelled to do.

    Therefore as in the case of other circumstances I prefer to avoid...I take steps to PREVENT myself from presenting "SELF" in KNOWN high crime areas. Common sense ...?
    Last edited by rushcreek2; 10-28-2013 at 03:51 PM.

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    ... but how do guys go about doing that if they don't carry in bad areas? Not trying to sound like a circular question (can't prevent crime in an area that your likely to have crime since you won't carry there, and OC in an area where the chances of an assault are extremely low). Hope that makes sense guys and I appreciate the warm welcome. This OC thing is a new concept to me but I like to expand ideas and learn where I can.
    Quote Originally Posted by rushcreek2 View Post
    The primary responsibility for crime prevention has been delegated to state and local law enforcement agencies.

    I'm merely exercising my right to self defense if , and when I personally prevent the successful carrying out of a crime.

    Displaying, or bringing my handgun to bear upon another person is something I never want to be compelled to do.

    Therefore as in the case of other circumstances I prefer to avoid...I take steps to PREVENT myself from presenting myself in KNOWN high crime areas. Common sense ...?
    What rushcrek said. OCing may prevent me from being the victim of a crime. It may or may not prevent the next schlub walking down the street from being a victim.

    But that's not really my immediate concern, is it? Sure, in the general sense it would be nice if there was a carry-over effect but tha's not why I carry (OC or CC). Further, if that other schlub and all the others like him are conting on my carrying to have some deterrent effect then I want to be paid for being a walking deterrent. And I want them to shut up about how bad guns are and that only the police and military should have them.

    Last time I checked my bank balance I did not see any payment for being a walking deterrent, and I continually hear folks who will do nothing to secure their own safety say my carrying a gun is bad.

    It's not "crime prevention" crime prevention - it's being prepared to stop a crime from being committed against me.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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  11. #11
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    I apologize if I muddled that up. I was referring to deterring crime against ones self. As is, if OCing will make stop guys from attacking you, but alot of guys are saying they would avoid areas that they would get attacked. Does that make sense? Again, I'm new so bear with me.

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    Regular Member ron73440's Avatar
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    My mom asked me the same type of thing, I told her I still do the same things I always have and being that I didn't go to dangerous places before, I'm not going to start now.

    I also said it would be like buying a fire extinguisher and immediately trying to see if your couch is flammable.
    What I told my wife when she said my steel Baby Eagle .45 was heavy, "Heavy is good, heavy is reliable, if it doesn't work you could always hit him with it."-Boris the Blade

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  13. #13
    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    Maybe this little tidbit will help ............

    The way I carry - IWB ( inside waistband ) holster @ my "3" - I can conceal or display at my discretion- depending upon circumstances by the position of my elbow. Works for me.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rushcreek2 View Post
    Maybe this little tidbit will help ............

    The way I carry - IWB ( inside waistband ) holster @ my "3" - I can conceal or display at my discretion- depending upon circumstances by the position of my elbow. Works for me.
    I agree. I carry appendix but similar concept. With my shirt over it you cant tell, but a slight raise and there it is.

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    Response to Primus

    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    I'm actually from MA, I apologize for not stating that previously. While MA you can OC, not many guys do. Kind of frowned upon I guess. I ask this because I live in a pretty large city that has a significant crime rate. I mean like top 15 in the country. So for someone like me, I literally can't carry OC without hitting a bad area (gang/ drug activity). With that being said, I carry 99% of the time when I'm out of the house but it's always concealed. I've taken extra measures to practice and get it to where I can operate from a concealed fashion just as fast as the average guy who carries OC. The reason I even asked this question is because while reading through this forum it seems alot of guys state a main reason to OC is to prevent crime (makes sense), but how do guys go about doing that if they don't carry in bad areas? Not trying to sound like a circular question (can't prevent crime in an area that your likely to have crime since you won't carry there, and OC in an area where the chances of an assault are extremely low). Hope that makes sense guys and I appreciate the warm welcome. This OC thing is a new concept to me but I like to expand ideas and learn where I can.
    During the last 20 years many housing projects were shut down and the residents were given section 8 housing certificates. Many of the residents resettled in suburban areas. Traditionally bad areas were ghetto areas and were concentrated in the inner city. Now, many/most suburban areas could be described as bad; the residents just don't know it as they think their $400,000 mortgage somehow shields them from crime. I delivered pizzas in a "good" suburban area off and on for 15 years without incident. In the final year I did it I had 3 attempted robberies. Most suburban areas are no longer safe.

    Recently I was forced to live in the Bronx for 2 years due to economic reasons. This is a bad area by anyone's definition; and you know what I felt safer unarmed in the Bronx then I do in many areas of Virginia beach. I spoke to a cashier here in a Virginia beach store who lived her whole life in Harlem and the Bronx and she said that you will get robbed quicker in VA Bch then in the Bronx; from what I have seen on the news and the amount of times I have heard gun shots off in the distance I know she is right. New York is now largely a city of immigrants and the dangers of the ghetto there have simply shifted into northern New Jersey.

    Having said all of this I open carry most of the time I go out. I open carry at night as I am usually on a night time/ early morning schedule due to various commitments. I consider Virginia beach to be an area with every bit of the danger at night time of any inner city ghetto. I have had no problems open carrying from police or normal civilians; I think our biggest problems tend to come from store security/ managers etc. Usually most people do not take notice that you are carrying unless they have a reason to. Around here the police are good and don't bother you. They might just look at the gun, look at you (I am a clean cut 40 year old white guy) and move on. Some thugs will keep a distance from you however which is good.
    Last edited by Mongoose72; 10-29-2013 at 10:14 AM.

  16. #16
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    I apologize if I muddled that up. I was referring to deterring crime against ones self. As is, if OCing will make stop guys from attacking you, but alot of guys are saying they would avoid areas that they would get attacked. Does that make sense? Again, I'm new so bear with me.
    Of course it makes sense. Prudence always make sense. Like my mom used to say. "If Billy stuck his head in a fire, would you do the same?". If you know an area is well known for trouble and attacks upon people, why on earth would you deliberately invite a confrontation? If you go somewhere where you haven't a clue what goes on there and a confrontation takes place with you in the middle, that's different. But logic and common sense suggests to leave bad places to others and stay away. That gun on your hip is nice to have but is no guarantee it will save your butt. Best to leave it in its home (holster) and leave yourself out of bad places.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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    You will never have a danger rate of 0%. Ever.

    http://theblogaboutguns.blogspot.com...is-safety.html
    I carry everywhere because crime doesn't make appointments.

  18. #18
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    Well, here's one. And one I cant advise others to do in my situation, but I felt the area I had to be in justified it-and, thankfully, a LEO agreed with me, and let it pass without incident, but..

    Was working an IT contract for a major banking/investment company,recently. They had H.Q'd their regional offices in a office/industrial park area, which was ok itself, but.. nearest places to get gas, food, etc. were a couple miles away, and in a very bad area.
    Over the course of a 14 hr shift, running around to several branch areas and back, had run low on gas, and had no time to stop somewhere better to fill up, before going home, across town.

    Nearest gas station to the office was smack in the center of an area in which no less than 10 murders/robberies, etc. had taken place, just in the previous week alone. You cant look 20 feet in any direction around there, when the sun goes down, without spotting a half -dozen or so Meth-heads or Crackhead zombies stumbling around.

    So, no choice, really, had to get the gas. So before I did, I put my .45 on the hip, where it belongs.
    But, OC is not legal here yet. So, was running a risk of a run-in with local LEOs, by doing so, but..
    Sure enough, about half-way through filling my tank, a cruiser pulls right up along side me, and the Deputy just sat there, looked at me with one eyebrow raised, and pointed at my .45.

    In return, I just waved my free hand in the general direction of the dozen or so zombies wandering about within 30 feet. He looked around, nodded, and "saluted" and drove off.
    Could have gone either way, but.. was ready to tell him tough ****, Im having to deal with my surroundings.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Well, here's one. And one I cant advise others to do in my situation, but I felt the area I had to be in justified it-and, thankfully, a LEO agreed with me, and let it pass without incident, but..

    Was working an IT contract for a major banking/investment company,recently. They had H.Q'd their regional offices in a office/industrial park area, which was ok itself, but.. nearest places to get gas, food, etc. were a couple miles away, and in a very bad area.
    Over the course of a 14 hr shift, running around to several branch areas and back, had run low on gas, and had no time to stop somewhere better to fill up, before going home, across town.

    Nearest gas station to the office was smack in the center of an area in which no less than 10 murders/robberies, etc. had taken place, just in the previous week alone. You cant look 20 feet in any direction around there, when the sun goes down, without spotting a half -dozen or so Meth-heads or Crackhead zombies stumbling around.

    So, no choice, really, had to get the gas. So before I did, I put my .45 on the hip, where it belongs.
    But, OC is not legal here yet. So, was running a risk of a run-in with local LEOs, by doing so, but..
    Sure enough, about half-way through filling my tank, a cruiser pulls right up along side me, and the Deputy just sat there, looked at me with one eyebrow raised, and pointed at my .45.

    In return, I just waved my free hand in the general direction of the dozen or so zombies wandering about within 30 feet. He looked around, nodded, and "saluted" and drove off.
    Could have gone either way, but.. was ready to tell him tough ****, Im having to deal with my surroundings.
    That's the kind of situation I'm talking about. Thank you for the response. Good on you for being safe.

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Well, here's one....
    Sorry, but that was a violation of the Three Stupids Rule.

    I usually do not let my gas tank get below 1/4, but if I am going to be out in the boonies or in some city other than the one where my home is, I keep it around the 1/2 mark just so I can avoid that sort of situation.

    Somewhere, sometime during the day you could have diverted to a gas station and filled up, knowing that if you let it go you would be "forced" into a bad area.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silvertongue View Post
    You will never have a danger rate of 0%. Ever.

    http://theblogaboutguns.blogspot.com...is-safety.html
    And you will never be in 100% danger. There will be times when you will enter "bad areas" and exit without incident.

    That does not mean that there are not areas that are worse than others nor that avoiding them is unnecessary.

  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    I have OCed in "bad neighborhoods" in Virginia (I find myself in odd places when women are involved). I would far prefer to be armed than unarmed, or for that matter CC (which is little better than being unarmed if your goal is to avoid conflict).

    Most criminals are petty opportunists, rather than dedicated, hardcore thugs willing to take on any challenge in the name of being bad (and badass). This is no less true in "bad neighborhoods".

    The only thing I do different in a "bad neighborhood" is to bring my spare mags with 100% certainty (sometimes I wear just the 1911 in "good neighborhoods").

    Thus far, I've been left alone by criminals while OCing, whatever the neighborhood.

  23. #23
    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    "Bad" neighborhoods

    The only time I have ever intentionally broken the law -- other than traffic laws -- is when I went back to my old neighborhood in Baltimore, many years ago, to visit the cemetery where many of my ancestors are buried. It's in a "bad" neighborhood where just a week before my visit a young man was shot and killed just for using a pay phone near the entrance to the cemetery. Apparently he was not of an "appropriate" ethnicity to be using that phone. Knowing this, I concealed a firearm on my person before going there. This being Maryland, I was almost more in fear of being caught carrying than I was in being confronted or assaulted. The visit was uneventful and I was very happy to return home without being approached by LEO or otherwise.

    Happy now to be a citizen of the Commonwealth of Virginia where such issues are moot, but I cringe whenever I have to travel back to the state of my birth.
    Last edited by JamesCanby; 10-31-2013 at 05:41 PM. Reason: Correct a typo
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  24. #24
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Open carry is about deterring crime against yourself or your family. The rest of the people in your state can either take their safety in their own hands or be victims. It is NOT your or our place to protect the public, or reduce crime.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Sorry, but that was a violation of the Three Stupids Rule.

    I usually do not let my gas tank get below 1/4, but if I am going to be out in the boonies or in some city other than the one where my home is, I keep it around the 1/2 mark just so I can avoid that sort of situation.

    Somewhere, sometime during the day you could have diverted to a gas station and filled up, knowing that if you let it go you would be "forced" into a bad area.

    stay safe.
    Agreed. And normally wouldnt have gone down like that. But the locations I was in and passing through, and the time crunches I was under having to run about, really didnt get much time/chance to go 10 miles or so out of the area (thanks,traffic-causing douuchebaggs) to get it elsewhere. Had no intentions/plans for being there as late as I was that night-but Murphy was all over us that night.

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