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Thread: ME:Portland Police Chill Second and First Amendment Rights

  1. #1
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    ME:Portland Police Chill Second and First Amendment Rights

    The police Chief in Portland, Maine, Michael Sauschuck, does not like the "bear arms" part of the second amendment, and he and other Portland officials are quite willing to work to chill its exercise.

    There have been recent cases where police have stopped people who are legally openly carrying guns in the Portland area. One has become popular on YouTube, where a well read open carrier civilly schooled the police officer on the limitations of detainment under the Constitution and case law.

    In December of 2012, an activist was legally carrying an AR-15 type rifle, and was stopped twice. He was a law student and recorded the incidents. He was not arrested.

    The police know that open carry is legal and not against the law. It appeared that there would be another case similar to the above when Carlos Reed, an Iraq war veteran and college law enforcement student, was stopped at gun point for doing nothing but exercising his second amendment rights, though he did it at night, so as not to attract undue attention. People in other states have won settlements for this type of overreaction by police.

    It did not happen that way. The police confiscated Mr. Reed's rifle and pistol while they tried to figure something to charge him with. When Mr. Reed later told an instructor that he would continue the walks as a way to exercise his second amendment rights, and to prepare for a military training mission, the police and prosecutors decided to charge him with "threatening display of a weapon", though Mr. Reed had never threatened anyone or pointed his rifle at anyone. The appearance of a desire to "chill" the exercise of constitutional rights is clear.

    They obtained a warrant, arrested Mr. Reed, and then tried to get him committed to a mental institution. While they held him for evaluation, he lost his job, lost his college credits for the semester he had enrolled in, and was finally released on his own recognizance, with a court order not to possess guns or ammunition in the intervening period.

    Mr. Reeds car was impounded as part of the arrest. Carlos Reed had to pay $700 to have it released.

    The police then issued a press release that described Carlos Reed as a danger to the community, and characterized his desire to exercise his second amendment rights as this:

    “He said he’s going to arm himself again and force confrontations with the police,” Chief Michael Sauschuck said at a news conference Friday. “If somebody is saying he has piles of firearms and is going to have conflicts with police, that’s a concern for us and the community.”

    The article in the Portland Press Herald seems to imply that Reed's statement that he was preparing for a "military training mission" was somehow frightening or irrational, yet they state in the article that Mr. Reed entered the reserves after leaving active duty. With 8 years of active duty, entering the reserves would appear to be a very rational act.

    The police say that they found a "hypodermic apparatus" in the car, and a substance that they suspect of being steroids, and they have charged him with possession of a hypodermic apparatus and illegal drugs as well.

    I do not have any personal knowledge of Carlos Reed, but when a police Chief states that he does not approve of the law on open carry in Maine, then goes to considerable lengths to find a way to charge someone who open carries, I tend to wonder about the Chief's motives.

    The police have already done a great deal to punish Carlos Reed without ever having to go to court. They have cost him his job, a semester of college, and $700 to have his car released. They could easily have arrested him by calling him and asking him to come down to the station. He was found to be competent and not a threat to himself or others in the mental evaluation. While the evaluation may have been an exercise to "protect the police", it reminds one of how the Soviets used mental institutions to punish those who were political dissidents.

    The hypodermic and unknown substance are troubling, but they are also the sort of things an overzealous officer might produce in order to please his chief, or to put those pesky "civilians" in their place. It is even possible that they are completely innocent. Both my father and a good friend have or had hypodermics for their diabetes. The unknown substance has not been tested.

    A later editorial in the Portland Press Herald changes the tone a bit, merely praising the police for chilling the second amendment while saying that Carlos "displayed poor judgement".

    I have long believed that openly carrying weapons is an exercise of both first and second amendment rights. Those who oppose open carry are not acting out of a concern for public safety, because criminals and terrorists almost never carry weapons openly. Virtually all of the time, people who carry openly are doing it in part or completely, as a political statement. It educates those who refuse to believe that the second amendment actually has teeth.

    If Carlos Reed had slipped a loose cover over his rifle, he would not have been bothered, but it would not have changed his abilities in any significant way. Rifles are almost never used in crime, and openly carried rifles are a much tinier subset of those. If the police can chill the open carry of rifles, then they can do so for pistols. If openly carried pistols are a threat, then concealed pistols are more of a threat.

    Open carry is speech that the Portland Police Chief does not like. It shows that there are constitutional limits that he must respect. We may agree or disagree that the speech is effective or not, but we should agree that it must be protected.

    ©2013 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included.
    Link to Gun Watch

    http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2013/10...econd-and.html

    There are several embeded links in the original article.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Not sure how his state sees it, but in Georgia if the rifle is loaded in Must be openly carried. Placing a rifle in a bag would be concealing it; which is illegal under Georgia statute.

    My gut feeling is that indeed, the police are trying to induce a chilling effect on Constitutional freedoms. Freedoms, I might add they are employed to protect.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 10-26-2013 at 09:38 AM.

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    From the sourced articles, there was no round in the chamber

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    Not sure how his state sees it, but in Georgia if the rifle is loaded in Must be openly carried. Placing a rifle in a bag would be concealing it; which is illegal under Georgia statute.
    What is the definition of loaded in Georgia? Does no round in the chamber qualify as unloaded? In California, if you have a loaded magazine in the gun it used to be considered "loaded".

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    ....not just the cops notice; who granted the warrant?

    No doubt about the parasitical arraingement betweeen those pretending to work in justice and the costumed agents on the street.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Brace's Avatar
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    Oh wonderful. So there goes any thought of the Portland PD being legitimate and working in the public interest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ccwinstructor View Post

    The police say that they found a "hypodermic apparatus" in the car, and a substance that they suspect of being steroids, and they have charged him with possession of a hypodermic apparatus and illegal drugs as well.
    This hypo fell out of the cop's pocket?

    I'm sure after this the guy will be more pro-cop than he was before.

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    It is amazing how folks are willing to assume that the presence of the hypodermic was the result of the cop breaking the law, but refuse to consider the possibility that Reed broke the law.

    I am going to operate from Occam's Razor and Hanlon's Razor: All else being equal, the simplest explanation is usually the correct explanation. And, never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by stupidity. Until I learn facts to the contrary, I would assume that the needle, for which there is likely an innocent explanation, belongs to Reed.

    The Portland police having it in for OCers is simply unacceptable. I hope that Reed is truly innocent of crimes related to the hypo, and proceeds to stick it to the Portland PD, the city, the officer, and the chief.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    It is amazing how folks are willing to assume that the presence of the hypodermic was the result of the cop breaking the law, but refuse to consider the possibility that Reed broke the law.

    I am going to operate from Occam's Razor and Hanlon's Razor: All else being equal, the simplest explanation is usually the correct explanation. And, never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by stupidity. Until I learn facts to the contrary, I would assume that the needle, for which there is likely an innocent explanation, belongs to Reed.

    The Portland police having it in for OCers is simply unacceptable. I hope that Reed is truly innocent of crimes related to the hypo, and proceeds to stick it to the Portland PD, the city, the officer, and the chief.
    Cops expect people to think that the easiest explanation is the appropriate explanation. Given that the substance (if any) is contained w/o in hypo is unknown it is unknown who's hypo it is. If the substance was steroids maybe your viewpoint would change.

    Unless I see evidence that that needle is Reed's, I choose not to accept the conclusion that it is ... not in this case.

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    More Smearing of Carlos Reed

    This news report makes him look just a tad short of Jack the Ripper.

    Since when did getting ready for a military training mission have sinister connotations?

    Reed was in the military for eight years. It was written that he joined the reserves after that. What is sinister about him getting ready for a military training mission?

    http://www.wgme.com/news/top-stories...id_19241.shtml

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    Regular Member Brace's Avatar
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    What the heck is a laser scope?

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Plenty of reasons why someone might have a hypodermic needle with them.

    I had over two hundred in my car just this afternoon. And plenty of 'undetermined liquids' as well.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    Plenty of reasons why someone might have a hypodermic needle with them.

    I had over two hundred in my car just this afternoon. And plenty of 'undetermined liquids' as well.
    My friend has diabetes and carries needles with him.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Right, which is why the reasonable assumption is that the needle belonged to the owner of the car and was perfectly lawful. Absent any other information, that is the assumption to make.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Brace View Post
    What the heck is a laser scope?
    This

    Yardage Pro Riflescope by Bushnell
    Personal Defensive Solutions professional personal firearms, edge weapons and hands on defensive training and tactics pdsolutions@hotmail.com

    Any and all spelling errors are just to give the spelling Nazis something to do

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    This

    Yardage Pro Riflescope by Bushnell
    Many retailers (and a couple of manufacturers) refer to a "laser sight" as a laser "scope". It looks like Firearms Instructor is right on target with the Bushnell Yardage Pro (even though he missed the target completely with the link he posted - it takes you to Nikon Pro). Bushnell may well have the first true "laser scope" that fits a working man's budget, and it's available on Amazon for about HALF of the Bushnell MSRP of $1149. (The only scope I've seen close to these specs is the Barrett computerized BORS [MSRP $2,756 w/scope] which IMHO is unnecessarily expensive unless you have a rifle chambered for .50BMG) I'd recommend that anybody in the market for such a scope check out the Bushnell - there are other features which make it worth the $$$, but I won't go into those here, since it's not OC-related. Pax...
    Last edited by Gil223; 10-27-2013 at 04:27 PM. Reason: Ooops...
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Until Mr. Reed states that the hypodermic apparatus is not his, it must be his. The cops should have tested the substance by now. It seems that Mr. reed may...may, have some recourse id the cops are scratching deep to find a charge that is nebulous enough to convince a jury that Mr. Reed broke a law.

    Note to self, do not visit Portland, ME.

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    once the case is dismissed because of unlawful arrest, all evidence discovered will be inadmissible.

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