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Thread: Additional open carry arrests at capital building

  1. #1
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Additional open carry arrests at capital building

    BEST VIDEO SO FAR IMO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCyJAIHcoJg

    According to a post on Facebook, two members of Texas Carry were arrested within the past hour to 2 hours outside of the capital building. The members were carrying openly holstered pre-1899 pistols that are not classified as firearms under Texas law.

    Based on the conversations posted online in the recent weeks/months, I would imagine that the government intends to prosecute them NOT under unlawful carry of a weapon but under disorderly conduct, which makes it an offense when one "displays a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm;" - meaning that the case hinges not on whether or not the weapon qualifies as a firearm, but whether or not it was carried in a manner calculated to cause alarm. Common sense - and probably mountains of case law from all across the country - tells us that it is not displayed in a manner calculated to cause alarm when it is properly holstered. We shall see. I will try to post any updates I find as quickly as possible.

    According to the Facebook posts this was not a simi-peaceful arrest as the previous ones were. This was a full blown, guns drawn, fingers on trigger, to-the-ground takedown. The officers refused to tell the ones arrested what laws they had broken, and they refused to tell bystanders why they were being arrested. When questioned, they simply replied "we are just doing what we are told." Whoever is doing the telling, needs to be booted from their office. Better, yet, boot them from Texas. Send them to Chicago, perhaps, they ought to love it there...

    I believe the following video is of the arrests made today. WARNING offensive language throughout. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cow1...e_gdata_player But you can't say a few curse words are any more offensive than false arrests, broken oaths, and blind obedience to an oppressive state.

    A bare-bones news story. Hopefully more will be reported in the near future. http://www.khou.com/news/texas-news/...229394821.html

    I'm now reading that they've been charged with criminal trespass. It'd be laughable if it weren't a matter of law abiding citizens being arrested, abused and oppressed
    Last edited by stealthyeliminator; 10-28-2013 at 01:29 AM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member BrianB's Avatar
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    Looks like there were tons of people recording. Interested to see if any videos come out that start a little earlier in the encounter.

    I wonder what the gestapo would do if 500 people were open carrying black powder revolvers? Roll in an APC?

    I'd love to know what their probable cause was for the "calculated to cause alarm" element of the alleged crime?

  3. #3
    Regular Member davidmcbeth's Avatar
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    Sooner or later people will quit recording an arrest and will be recording a riot...
    Do not take any postings to be the opinion of the poster .. poster may be posting opinions of others and not necessarily himself ... carry on

    "Filing a notice of trespass with your local, county, state authorities , to keep all town employees off your land, would cut down on the government from interfering or harassing you, at least put you in a little bit stronger legal position" .. chk you local laws (disclaimer)
    [/I]

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    http://youtu.be/rcFOdzqu-Ok
    Here is another video.


    They are going for criminal trespass. Apparently they think that someone can be trespassed from public property. According to comments from the leaders/spokespersons this all took place on public property.

    The following is supposed to be an extended video that covers more of the incident. I have not watched it yet. Be prepared for language please. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R7-a...ature=youtu.be


    Regarding the drawing of weapons and/or fingers on trigger, I have not seen in the video that an officer drew down on a citizen, but it appears that the officer put his finger on the trigger of the BP pistol after siezing it.
    Last edited by stealthyeliminator; 10-26-2013 at 08:26 PM.

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    this makes me sick
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

  6. #6
    Regular Member BrianB's Avatar
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    I wonder how many of the sworn police officers here would have the guts to tell their boss to shove it if they told you to go find something to arrest someone for, or told you to arrest someone for something you knew for a fact was not a crime, or for a crime you knew for a fact they didn't commit?

  7. #7
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianB View Post
    I wonder how many of the sworn police officers here would have the guts to tell their boss to shove it if they told you to go find something to arrest someone for, or told you to arrest someone for something you knew for a fact was not a crime, or for a crime you knew for a fact they didn't commit?
    Apparently none.. Neither of these arrests appear to have any legitimacy.

  8. #8
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianB View Post
    Looks like there were tons of people recording. Interested to see if any videos come out that start a little earlier in the encounter.

    I wonder what the gestapo would do if 500 people were open carrying black powder revolvers? Roll in an APC?

    Edit: 3hen I get back to a PC I will try to post additional videos and updates. My editing capability is limited right now.

    FYI, I've read that the person shouting constant obscenities was not an open carry Texas member. I am thankful for that, I think that shouting obscenities is counter productive and will prevent widespread public support

    I'd love to know what their probable cause was for the "calculated to cause alarm" element of the alleged crime?
    Roll an APC? Yes, that is exactly what they will do. They have plenty, and police forces across the nation have been less and less shy about deploying them.

    When I get back to a PC I will try to post more information and videos.I have limited editing capabilities.

    Fyi I believe the person shouting the harsher of the obscenities was not an open carry Texas member... IMO such conduct is not productive and will hinder widespread public support. Its hard to remain 'professional' in cases like these but doing so will be greatly beneficial in the long run I think

    http://www.myfoxaustin.com/story/237...owder-handguns


    EDIT: Tom Jefferson had to seek medical attention after posting bond. His ribcage was so swollen that the doctors could not determine from X-Rays whether or not they were cracked. This is after being locked up for approximately 12 hours, on a false charge.
    Last edited by stealthyeliminator; 10-27-2013 at 11:49 AM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    The charges against one of them were upgraded to criminal trespass with a deadly weapon, which is a class A misdemeanour. He was refused PR bond because he invoked his 5th amendment rights, which delayed his release on bond. Immediately after being released on bond he sought medical treatment for injuries to his ribs. He has severely bruised and possibly cracked ribs. He was told that he should not return to work due to his injuries.

    This is what tyranny looks like.

    There will be a rally in Austin on December 14th, and it is being encouraged that ANYONE that can attend do so, whether you are a Texas resident or a patriot from another state. You are encouraged to openly carry a cap and ball pistol that is a replica of a pre-1899 pistol. The more that do, the better.

  10. #10
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    STEALTHY i hope you will keep us all informed. this is a very important thing you guys are doing in TX. it will influence people across this nation
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  11. #11
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    I feel like I'm spamming but there is a lot of information out there about this, and more just keeps flowing as people get their videos uploaded and news articles posted.

    This is a video of AJ, one of the men arrested, heading out of the jail.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-aP...e_gdata_player
    Last edited by stealthyeliminator; 10-27-2013 at 06:57 PM.

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    I'm gonna try like hell to be there. Anyone have a BP pistol I can borrow for the day? This is BS. A similar thing happened to me last year. This is my chance to once again show my disdain for officers of this type.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Things are warming up, Texas police arrest OC'ers who did not break the law.

    http://xrepublic.tv/node/5900

    Description:

    Two More Open Carry Activists Falsely Arrested, Near-Riot Ensues. October 26,2013 at the State Capital Building.
    - See more at: http://xrepublic.tv/node/5900#sthash.JABDxYUi.dpuf
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

  14. #14
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Here is another video from a different camera. Hopefully even more will show up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7RK2ncxom8

    I believe Gander Mountain has replica BP pistols for around $250. Not sure if I'll be able to get one or not. http://www.gandermountain.com/modper...olver&i=402602

    Edit: Looks like they're backordered.
    Last edited by stealthyeliminator; 10-27-2013 at 07:47 PM.

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Threads were merged.
    Last edited by stealthyeliminator; 10-27-2013 at 08:00 PM.

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    Regular Member BrianB's Avatar
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    I finally got off my butt and ordered one as well. Since I plan to carry it at times I opted for the 5.5" barrel instead of the 8". They are backordered, but Cabelas has a pretty good deal on them here. For $229.99 (plus reduced $5 shipping if you use the "3HOLIDAY" code) you get the gun and a "starter kit". Also this is a steel framed gun and the one you linked is a brass framed. I've done a little reading and it sounds like the steel framed is my preference (strength, etc.). I also ordered the holster that's specifically for the 5.5" gun.

    If I actually end up carrying it more than a little I want to grab a Uberti stainless steel 5.5" one. They are back ordered until Feb. 2014, and aren't quite so economical, so I'm going to wait and see if I really end up using it. In Florida, my sweat will corrode a blued steel gun pretty fast if I don't keep after it, so the stainless would be nice (especially since I'm a "Glock guy" so I'm not used to worrying about sweat on my carry guns).
    Last edited by BrianB; 10-27-2013 at 08:40 PM.

  17. #17
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianB View Post
    I finally got off my butt and ordered one as well. Since I plan to carry it at times I opted for the 5.5" barrel instead of the 8". They are backordered, but Cabelas has a pretty good deal on them here. For $229.99 (plus reduced $5 shipping if you use the "3HOLIDAY" code) you get the gun and a "starter kit". Also this is a steel framed gun and the one you linked is a brass framed. I've done a little reading and it sounds like the steel framed is my preference (strength, etc.). I also ordered the holster that's specifically for the 5.5" gun.

    If I actually end up carrying it more than a little I want to grab a Uberti stainless steel 5.5" one. They are back ordered until Feb. 2014, and aren't quite so economical, so I'm going to wait and see if I really end up using it. In Florida, my sweat will corrode a blued steel gun pretty fast if I don't keep after it, so the stainless would be nice (especially since I'm a "Glock guy" so I'm not used to worrying about sweat on my carry guns).
    Hey, thank you for the link! I didn't even think about Cabela's. I was thinking about checking Academy as well. Would you mind linking the holster? I was looking for them on the Gander Mountain site but couldn't find any at all. Pistol wouldn't do me any good if I couldn't find a proper holster for it!

    Also it is recommended to have legal defense prepared ahead of time. There are organizations that you can join for relatively low cost, something around $13 a month. https://www.selfdefensefund.com/


    BEST VIDEO SO FAR IMO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCyJAIHcoJg
    Last edited by stealthyeliminator; 10-28-2013 at 01:29 AM.

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    Regular Member BrianB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    Hey, thank you for the link! I didn't even think about Cabela's. I was thinking about checking Academy as well. Would you mind linking the holster? I was looking for them on the Gander Mountain site but couldn't find any at all. Pistol wouldn't do me any good if I couldn't find a proper holster for it!
    The holster link is here.

    My order status says estimated delivery for the revolver is 4-5 weeks.

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    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    If TEXAS LAW is meaningless - WHY OBEY ANY OF IT ?

    The Texas Legislature's delegated power to "regulate the wearing of arms, by law, with a view to prevent crime" is manifested under Chapter 46 of the Penal Code - which clearly exempts replicas, and actual pre-1899 cap & ball revolvers. The troopers orchestrated arrrests for criminal trespass only -a sign that they were well aware that NO CRIME had been committed .

    TEXAS LAW under section 46.01 clearly defines a pre-1899 cap & ball black powder revolver as NOT A "firearm"....and therefore NOT A "handgun" = NO TEXAS LAW VIOLATED by these LAWFUL "open carriers".

    The only crime committed was the interference by the Texas State Troopers with a peaceful assembly for the purpose of lawful expression. The 1st Amendment is not suspended because "somebody" doesn't LIKE the message that is being expressed- and RECEIVED .

    The free exercise of the 1st Amendment secured right to expression was blatantly suppressed by these troopers.

    Whether "somebodies" or "anybodies" are "comfortable" with the message being expressed is irrelevant. Civil rights were trampled yesterday in Austin - big time.

    These folks are taking a stand for "every citizen" in Texas - against a long lingering Reconstruction era transgression. The message got across despite the 1 A suppression by Travis County DA -

    The open carry of replica & actual pre 1899 cap & ball BP revolvers is LEGAL IN TEXAS !

    Apparently exercising your 1A right to get that message out to other Texans however - is "illegal"......in Travis County.....?
    Last edited by rushcreek2; 10-28-2013 at 11:42 AM.

  20. #20
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Meeting(s) have been scheduled with OCT, DPS official(s) and the Lt. Governor to discuss the illegal arrests occurring at the capitol

    Fyi one of the men arrested has been unable to work due to the injuries to his ribs and may face unemployment as a result. This has been a severe injustice
    Last edited by stealthyeliminator; 10-29-2013 at 11:47 PM.

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    Here's a thought I had. If one or more of these folks had used minimal force to resist arrest, how would that have played out in court? First consider that Texas has a law prohibiting resisting even if the arrest is unlawful. Then consider that the supreme court has said that using violence up to and including deadly force is ok if the arrest is unlawful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mustangkiller View Post
    Here's a thought I had. If one or more of these folks had used minimal force to resist arrest, how would that have played out in court? First consider that Texas has a law prohibiting resisting even if the arrest is unlawful. Then consider that the supreme court has said that using violence up to and including deadly force is ok if the arrest is unlawful.
    Cite?
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Regular Member davidmcbeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mustangkiller View Post
    Here's a thought I had. If one or more of these folks had used minimal force to resist arrest, how would that have played out in court? First consider that Texas has a law prohibiting resisting even if the arrest is unlawful. Then consider that the supreme court has said that using violence up to and including deadly force is ok if the arrest is unlawful.
    Most states have laws saying that resisting is unlawful, when the arrest itself is unlawful.

    These laws are outrageous .... IMO.

    Happy to read the case you noted but did not cite...
    Do not take any postings to be the opinion of the poster .. poster may be posting opinions of others and not necessarily himself ... carry on

    "Filing a notice of trespass with your local, county, state authorities , to keep all town employees off your land, would cut down on the government from interfering or harassing you, at least put you in a little bit stronger legal position" .. chk you local laws (disclaimer)
    [/I]

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Well,,

    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Most states have laws saying that resisting is unlawful, when the arrest itself is unlawful.

    These laws are outrageous .... IMO.

    Happy to read the case you noted but did not cite...
    Try to look up.. US V. Bad Elk
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  25. #25
    Regular Member davidmcbeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    Try to look up.. US V. Bad Elk
    Thanks. I read the opinion which was based on common law. However, most states have written statues that make the common law moot.

    http://scholar.google.com/scholar_ca...en&as_sdt=8003

    Casselman v. State, 472 NE 2d 1310 - Ind: Court of Appeals, 3rd Dist. 1985

    The Elk case pre-dates the Casselman case and the Casselman case highlights other decisions regarding statues and common law.

    The Elk case was ruled on April 30, 1900..

    In my state you can resist but only generally on your property or house (as they are not only arresting you but gaining entry into an area they normally would require a warrant).

    Common law prevails when no statue is passed regarding the same subject matter; if a statue and common law conflict, the common law is void.

    So when you see a common law based case ... you'll need to check and see if any statue(s) have been passed that may have made the common law a moot point.

    Thanks for the Elk cite ... it helped me see more court decisions resisting in my location better ...
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 10-30-2013 at 02:27 AM.
    Do not take any postings to be the opinion of the poster .. poster may be posting opinions of others and not necessarily himself ... carry on

    "Filing a notice of trespass with your local, county, state authorities , to keep all town employees off your land, would cut down on the government from interfering or harassing you, at least put you in a little bit stronger legal position" .. chk you local laws (disclaimer)
    [/I]

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