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Domestic gun grab. Real threat or BS?

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
So, because things are better than they have been at points in the past, we should reject any attempts to seek further improvement?

It's the same silly argument as we are still the best country in the world.

Your evasive arguments rise to maliciousness--you're insulting our intelligence to the point it cannot be anything but deliberate.

First, you're pretending an absence of violence equals an absence of threat of violence. I don't believe for one moment you cannot distinguish between violence and a threat of violence.

Second, you danced around the threat of violence inherent in the traffic stop itself. Just try not stopping at all. See if you're not roadblocked, tire-spiked, or PITted.

Quite right. With all his added red herring/straw man arguments, I feel he is being very tendentious.

A mugger approaches me at night and says give me your money while pointing a gun at my head, and I comply and he lets me live to be robbed again at another point, by his arguments there was no violence involved because I didn't get hurt.
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
565.090. Harassment - 1. A person commits the crime of harassment if he or she:

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5650000090.HTM
Your state may have a similar statute. In MO it is a Class A misdemeanor to threaten another citizen with violence. 3rd degree assault is also on the list of crimes.

The laws are quite clear in this regard. The threat of violence is a criminal act.....just not when the government is threatening violence.
 

Primus

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
3,939
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United States
Your evasive arguments rise to maliciousness--you're insulting our intelligence to the point it cannot be anything but deliberate.

First, you're pretending an absence of violence equals an absence of threat of violence. I don't believe for one moment you cannot distinguish between violence and a threat of violence.

Second, you danced around the threat of violence inherent in the traffic stop itself. Just try not stopping at all. See if you're not roadblocked, tire-spiked, or PITted.

Really? C'mon. No wonder your paranoid and threatened when someone says "license and registration". How can a EVASIVE argument be malicious?? Maliciousness implies due harm or duress towards you. Are you really that upset by my opinions? (opinions operating word).

No I'm saying absence an overt act of threat is a lack of threat of violence. When you order coffee are you afraid that the lady will throw it in your face? If you get gas are you afraid the attendant will light you on fire? No. There are no overt act.

So as we mentioned many encounters, barring an open and obvious threat of violence such as GRABBING their gun or drawing it, or flagging you with a rifle, or stating "I will shoot you", there is no over "threat of violence".

Listen my 1 year old kid can walk (kind of) up to me at ANY time and bite me in the ankle. Would you say I live under a threat of violence from him? I hope not....

It's just that sliding scale of what freaks you out. I'm no so paranoid that I assume everyone everywhere will try to kill me or oppress me, regardless if they wear a uniform or not.

Again, each to his own.
 

Primus

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Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
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Location
United States
Never beaten, shot, or threatened? hahaha

what kind of hermit life have you lived so far ...

I'd appreciate if you didn't just quote a small section and take it out of context. That line was out of a much larger broader conversation. If you disagree just say so and move on. If you have evidence to the contrary of anything being said (tough since it's all opinions) then send it. Otherwise, snipping bits and re posting certain lines and making comments isn't very productive to the topic of conversation. Thanks in advance.
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
I'd appreciate if you didn't just quote a small section and take it out of context. That line was out of a much larger broader conversation. If you disagree just say so and move on. If you have evidence to the contrary of anything being said (tough since it's all opinions) then send it. Otherwise, snipping bits and re posting certain lines and making comments isn't very productive to the topic of conversation. Thanks in advance.

Sorry, I should have realized that you are a panzy.

That's on me.
 

Primus

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
3,939
Location
United States
So Primus a mugger approaches you carrying a weapon demands your money, you give it to him and you are free to go, no threat of violence occurred?

How is he demanding the money? With a weapon pointed at me? With his hands raised in the air and a smile on his face? With a finger gun? Is the mugger a 12 year old girl? Is it a 70 year old male? Details matter, especially if you intend to tread in hypothetical land...
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
I'd appreciate if you didn't just quote a small section and take it out of context. That line was out of a much larger broader conversation. If you disagree just say so and move on. If you have evidence to the contrary of anything being said (tough since it's all opinions) then send it. Otherwise, snipping bits and re posting certain lines and making comments isn't very productive to the topic of conversation. Thanks in advance.

He's a resident troll. Don't give his tripe a second thought. Most around here don't.
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
How is he demanding the money? With a weapon pointed at me? With his hands raised in the air and a smile on his face? With a finger gun? Is the mugger a 12 year old girl? Is it a 70 year old male? Details matter, especially if you intend to tread in hypothetical land...

Evasive. Answer the question or not.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
Really? C'mon. No wonder your paranoid and threatened when someone says "license and registration". How can a EVASIVE argument be malicious?? Maliciousness implies due harm or duress towards you. Are you really that upset by my opinions? (opinions operating word).

No I'm saying absence an overt act of threat is a lack of threat of violence. When you order coffee are you afraid that the lady will throw it in your face? If you get gas are you afraid the attendant will light you on fire? No. There are no overt act.

So as we mentioned many encounters, barring an open and obvious threat of violence such as GRABBING their gun or drawing it, or flagging you with a rifle, or stating "I will shoot you", there is no over "threat of violence".

Listen my 1 year old kid can walk (kind of) up to me at ANY time and bite me in the ankle. Would you say I live under a threat of violence from him? I hope not....

It's just that sliding scale of what freaks you out. I'm no so paranoid that I assume everyone everywhere will try to kill me or oppress me, regardless if they wear a uniform or not.

Again, each to his own.

No, you weren't. You didn't say that once. You completely invalidated and used examples that evaded.

No overt threat of violence? Oh? Haven't read statutes and case law lately, have you? Many, many overt threats of violence for non-compliance and active resistance contained in those.

Regarding the maliciousness, nobody is as dense as you are pretending to be. Nobody. You know exactly what I'm talking about.
 

Primus

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
3,939
Location
United States
Evasive. Answer the question or not.

How is it evasive? Do you like driving cars? Yes= you like driving toyota prius as well as ferrari. No= you hate driving both.

Broad questions get broad answers.

Specific answer. If a "mugger" has a weapon and shows a definitive threat to my life or person the sure I'd react accordingly. If a "mugger" just states "give me your money" without the overt act of threatening then I'll act accordingly, which is "kick rocks kid".

I hope that clarifies my stance and all of the previous ones. You assume alot when you state "a mugger demands money". You assume there is that overt threat (my whole point). If you could clearly see no threat (12 year old girl unarmed) then you would treat it as a lack of "threat of violence". Trying to explain, but i have feeling it's falling on deaf ears.
 

Primus

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Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
3,939
Location
United States
What threat of violence? Am I missing something? If you don't pay your taxes, someone may or may not show up at your house and arrest you. They don't summarily bring you on the lawn and shoot you.

Where is the threat of violence in buying a car?? There are mandates the manufacturers have to follow. If Toyota doesn't put (insert part) in your car, they get FINED. Not shot, beat, killed, or even arrested.

The absolute WORST thing anyone can do is arrest you. I'll respond for you "well getting arrested I might get shot, etc.". Not if you didn't resist. If you just go to COURT (set up by the same document) then you'd have a trial and may go to jail.

When you go to Dunkin Donuts do you pay for your coffee under a threat of violence? How about people do stuff because they don't want to go to jail which happens on a daily basis without any violence.

This was my post talking about the OVERT threat of violence. This wasn't evasive. In fact I used several very specific examples of the LACK of OVERT threats.
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
How is it evasive? Do you like driving cars? Yes= you like driving toyota prius as well as ferrari. No= you hate driving both.

Broad questions get broad answers.

Specific answer. If a "mugger" has a weapon and shows a definitive threat to my life or person the sure I'd react accordingly. If a "mugger" just states "give me your money" without the overt act of threatening then I'll act accordingly, which is "kick rocks kid".

I hope that clarifies my stance and all of the previous ones. You assume alot when you state "a mugger demands money". You assume there is that overt threat (my whole point). If you could clearly see no threat (12 year old girl unarmed) then you would treat it as a lack of "threat of violence". Trying to explain, but i have feeling it's falling on deaf ears.

Fail! And illogical comparison.

It matters not the age of the mugger, it matters not if he is pointing the weapon directly at you, it matters not the gender all that matters was if you felt there was a threat of violence or not. Like I said evasive. I clearly said armed. Wanna try again?
 

Primus

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Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
3,939
Location
United States
Fail! And illogical comparison.

It matters not the age of the mugger, it matters not if he is pointing the weapon directly at you, it matters not the gender all that matters was if you felt there was a threat of violence or not. Like I said evasive. I clearly said armed. Wanna try again?

I do apologize, I did miss the holding weapon part. Yes if the guy has a weapon it would increase my perception of threat of violence.

Aren't you king of agreeing with me by saying that having the weapon is the important part? Isn't the weapon the hinging factor on the "overt threat".

And I get it, you'll refuse to agree with anything I say, but you cannot say with a straight face that a 12 yo girl saying give me your money is the same as a guy with a gun pointed at your face. What is the difference? The overt act of threat of violence... The details surrounding every encounter always matter. I'm assuming you know this, since this forum is very detailed in accounting encounters with the police. If I had a banana an pointed it at you would you feel threatened?:banana: I's say lets agree to disagree, but I doubt it can be left that civil.
 
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