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Thread: First not so nice encounter

  1. #1
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    Unhappy First not so nice encounter

    So I have been open carrying since the law went into effect. I oc everywhere I can, this includes walmart. I went in today to grab a few canned veggies and some frozen corn dogs since I hate to cook and of course I was OC! Go figure right... As my girlfriend and I walked in I grabbed a buggie and we both needed the restroom so we walked over parked our buggie out front and went to relieve ourselves. I came out and this heavy set lady in her 40's was leaning on my buggie. I asked her respectfully if that was the buggie I had just placed their and she said yes and handed it over. I walked to the other side to wait on my girlfriend and she saw my glock. She then asked if I was a cop so I told her no, she informed me that I was not allowed to carry my gun if I was not a cop. I smirked I have to admit( only because she was really that ignorant ), then I told her that the oc law passed in sept and that right after the law passed I spoke to the manager of Walmart and was given the ok to carry in their stores since they follow state laws. She then told me again that she didn't think I could carry, at that point I realized she had made up her mind so I told her it really was none of her business, I told her if I saw her walking her dog I wouldn't come over and tell her should couldn't be on a sidewalk( I no I shouldn't have but I couldn't help myself she really pissed me off), then I finished the encounter by telling her if she didn't like it she could go voice her concerns to the manager. She chose not to, she chose rather to follow the guy with the gun, that she obviously had a prob with, all around the darn store with her husband while my girlfriend and I finished our shopping. I held my tongue
    as I didn't want to escalate the situation with my gun on me because I feel that's just asking for trouble. She followed us after we checked out and we parted ways in the parking lot. I felt I could have handled it better but she had her mind made their was not educating her.
    Criminals donít open carry, most donít wear holsters, none care that you have a No Gun sign up. Good job to all stores who posts signs, all of you have opened yourself to criminals. They now know that you are weak and they will have no resistance in your place of business.

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    If you've already nicely explained the law, sometimes the best response is just "ok", and walk away. Hard to argue with that.

    Also, IMO it is more correct to say something like "OC is not prohibited by any law and is specifically protected by Article 12, Sec. 3 of the MS Constitution." HB2 had nothing to do with OC, it merely defined CC to mean fully concealed, and specifically listed visible, holstered firearms as an example of a firearm that was not concealed. It kinda helps people understand the whole "open carry law" nonsense.
    Last edited by Q-Tip; 10-27-2013 at 02:13 PM.

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    GLOCKLOVR, i think you did an excellent job, just watch your temper. treat these people like what they are stupid sheeple. you wouldn't get mad at a sheep that did something stupid, so just chill out. have fun with it. ask them what law say's you can't. it can be fun

    you are right you should never start trouble while you are carrying. i have family in MS, so i would like to keep up with this

    Maybe you would like to start a "OC experience in MS" topic post
    Last edited by papa bear; 10-27-2013 at 02:35 PM.
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Whether the woman was stupid, ignorant, or irritating, you need to take a different approach - both for your benefit and ours.

    Some people don't want to be educated, but they can cause you trouble more easily if you let yourself be antagonistic towards them.

    Let's say a manager or a LEO becomes involved, and asks bystanders what they saw...? "Well, there was this smart-@ss guy with a gun who was berating this woman..." Sounds real good for you, eh?

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    As she apparently was not a store manager, and apparently was not interested in learning about the new law, you may have been better of with a comment such as "Thank you for saying that" as you walk away - although I personally prefer just walking away. (If they want to follow me and cause a disturbance it will be very noticable.)

    Overall I'd say you did a good job. Responding to "You can't do that here" - whether it is lawfully carry your handgun or lean up against the wall and watch the shoppers go by - is always difficult. Because of that, it is often recommended that you not only mentally rehearse your response(s) but practice them with a friend who agrees to keep going no matter what you say. You learn the difference between when to hold them, when to fold them, and when to walk away.

    stay safe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Whether the woman was stupid, ignorant, or irritating, you need to take a different approach - both for your benefit and ours.

    Some people don't want to be educated, but they can cause you trouble more easily if you let yourself be antagonistic towards them.

    Let's say a manager or a LEO becomes involved, and asks bystanders what they saw...? "Well, there was this smart-@ss guy with a gun who was berating this woman..." Sounds real good for you, eh?
    I thank you for your comment but I don't feel that I in any way berated her or caused a big scene I did pop back a few comments which I said above I shouldn't have done, I'm 20 ( just a wi baby ) so I think I handled it a lot better than most 20 year olds would. Also what, in your opinion, would be a better approach? I read and consider every comment I see so it's not going to go in one ear and out the other I promise you that, I don't want anyone to feel they are wasting their time
    Last edited by Glocklover20; 10-27-2013 at 06:16 PM.
    Criminals donít open carry, most donít wear holsters, none care that you have a No Gun sign up. Good job to all stores who posts signs, all of you have opened yourself to criminals. They now know that you are weak and they will have no resistance in your place of business.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glocklover20 View Post
    I thank you for your comment but I don't feel that I in any way berated her or caused a big scene I did pop back a few comments which I said above I shouldn't have done, I'm 20 ( just a wi baby ) so I think I handled it a lot better than most 20 year olds would. Also what, in your opinion, would be a better approach? I read and consider every comment I see so it's not going to go in one ear and out the other I promise you that, I don't want anyone to feel they are wasting their time
    Okay, you're only 20 - no problem! I'm mere months older than you! ;-)

    Let me reply to each part of your post:

    "... she informed me that I was not allowed to carry my gun if I was not a cop. I smirked I have to admit (only because she was really that ignorant ), then I told her that the oc law passed in sept and that right after the law passed I spoke to the manager of Walmart and was given the ok to carry in their stores since they follow state laws. She then told me again that she didn't think I could carry, at that point I realized she had made up her mind so I told her it really was none of her business..."

    No smirking, and no "it's none of your business". Whether she made up her mind or not, she went from 'informing you' to saying she 'didn't think you could carry' - so your little informational blurb had some effect. Just say "Nice talking to you" and leave, or "That's not the case, but nice speaking with you" - and leave.


    "I told her if I saw her walking her dog I wouldn't come over and tell her should couldn't be on a sidewalk (I know I shouldn't have but I couldn't help myself (YES, you could) she really pissed me off (too bad - learn to control yourself), then I finished the encounter by telling her if she didn't like it she could go voice her concerns to the manager (nice move!!! NOT)..."
    1) Lack of self control and 2) wasn't the encounter distasteful enough at that point? Don't invite more trouble. What if she had taken up your challenge, and you found out that the manager on duty was not the manager you had previously spoken with??


    "She chose not to, she chose rather to follow the guy with the gun, that she obviously had a prob with, all around the darn store with her husband while my girlfriend and I finished our shopping."
    If this happens in the future (let's hope it's not because of your actions) but because the other party to the "conversation" is wacko, try having a conversation about the weather, a sports team, or whatever with the person. That may drive them crazy enough to leave, or it may let them see beyond your gun. However, I wouldn't try this route until you're more controlled, and much more comfortable with yourself than you appear to be at the moment.


    "I held my tongue as I didn't want to escalate the situation with my gun on me because I feel that's just asking for trouble."
    NICE WORK! But remember, the situation was already escalated because of your prior choices.


    "She followed us after we checked out and we parted ways in the parking lot."
    OMG!


    "I felt I could have handled it better..."
    Uh huh.


    "...but she had her mind made their was not educating her."
    Not all your interactions will be about education, so you'd better accept that fact. Find some methods which work for you when faced with a person who views you as a baby killer, or a gun with legs, or an idiot, or whatever. Know who you are, know the law, and don't feel compelled to prove it to anyone. (LEOs and judges merit a different approach, however)

    I hope this helps.

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    So you don't have to be 21 to OC in MS but you have to be 21+ to CC? Basically no permit is requires to OC?
    Last edited by XD9_MS; 10-29-2013 at 01:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Okay, you're only 20 - no problem! I'm mere months older than you! ;-)

    Let me reply to each part of your post:

    "... she informed me that I was not allowed to carry my gun if I was not a cop. I smirked I have to admit (only because she was really that ignorant ), then I told her that the oc law passed in sept and that right after the law passed I spoke to the manager of Walmart and was given the ok to carry in their stores since they follow state laws. She then told me again that she didn't think I could carry, at that point I realized she had made up her mind so I told her it really was none of her business..."

    No smirking, and no "it's none of your business". Whether she made up her mind or not, she went from 'informing you' to saying she 'didn't think you could carry' - so your little informational blurb had some effect. Just say "Nice talking to you" and leave, or "That's not the case, but nice speaking with you" - and leave.


    "I told her if I saw her walking her dog I wouldn't come over and tell her should couldn't be on a sidewalk (I know I shouldn't have but I couldn't help myself (YES, you could) she really pissed me off (too bad - learn to control yourself), then I finished the encounter by telling her if she didn't like it she could go voice her concerns to the manager (nice move!!! NOT)..."
    1) Lack of self control and 2) wasn't the encounter distasteful enough at that point? Don't invite more trouble. What if she had taken up your challenge, and you found out that the manager on duty was not the manager you had previously spoken with??


    "She chose not to, she chose rather to follow the guy with the gun, that she obviously had a prob with, all around the darn store with her husband while my girlfriend and I finished our shopping."
    If this happens in the future (let's hope it's not because of your actions) but because the other party to the "conversation" is wacko, try having a conversation about the weather, a sports team, or whatever with the person. That may drive them crazy enough to leave, or it may let them see beyond your gun. However, I wouldn't try this route until you're more controlled, and much more comfortable with yourself than you appear to be at the moment.


    "I held my tongue as I didn't want to escalate the situation with my gun on me because I feel that's just asking for trouble."
    NICE WORK! But remember, the situation was already escalated because of your prior choices.


    "She followed us after we checked out and we parted ways in the parking lot."
    OMG!


    "I felt I could have handled it better..."
    Uh huh.


    "...but she had her mind made their was not educating her."
    Not all your interactions will be about education, so you'd better accept that fact. Find some methods which work for you when faced with a person who views you as a baby killer, or a gun with legs, or an idiot, or whatever. Know who you are, know the law, and don't feel compelled to prove it to anyone. (LEOs and judges merit a different approach, however)

    I hope this helps.
    Thanks, while I don't agree with everything you said (surprise lol), I do see your point, and how you broke that up made your point very easy to read.
    Criminals donít open carry, most donít wear holsters, none care that you have a No Gun sign up. Good job to all stores who posts signs, all of you have opened yourself to criminals. They now know that you are weak and they will have no resistance in your place of business.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XD9_MS View Post
    So you don't have to be 21 to OC in MS but you have to be 21+ to CC? Basically no permit is requires to OC?
    Yes, the state can't regulate OC from what I understand, they can however regulate cc. I can not buy a handgun but can carry it because the law says that the OC age is 18 and it was a gift from my dad, he could only give me the gun because I was over 18 so I'm no longer underage.
    Criminals donít open carry, most donít wear holsters, none care that you have a No Gun sign up. Good job to all stores who posts signs, all of you have opened yourself to criminals. They now know that you are weak and they will have no resistance in your place of business.

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    Sorry to butt into MS affairs, but great thread! Informative. And the mature reaction from the OP to critiques speaks well of him. I expect him to become one of the best 2A ambassadors around. Kudos.

    BTW, I have to agree with almost everything BB62 had to say. Must be an Ohio thing.

    We now return you to your regularly scheduled MS programming. Congratulations on successfully smacking down the idiots who didn't understand the simple concept of what concealed carry is! Well done!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

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    It can be tough and frustrating talking to someone who isnt aware of the law, much like trying to explain that "No firearms" signs are ineffective when applied to someone already bent on committing a felony. I think the OP did ok and will do better in the future with a little coaching which he is receiving well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Sorry to butt into MS affairs, but great thread! Informative. And the mature reaction from the OP to critiques speaks well of him. I expect him to become one of the best 2A ambassadors around. Kudos...
    I agree. Willingness to take constructive criticism is a good sign!

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    I would only suggest one thing: instead of telling her to take it up with the manager, I would have reported her for following me around as I shopped.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    I would only suggest one thing: instead of telling her to take it up with the manager, I would have reported her for following me around as I shopped.
    True. I don't really see what they were trying to prove/accomplish with following him around, and even in the parking lot!. THAT would be considering harassment. Go figure, the person "offended" ended up committing the punishable act....

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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    I would only suggest one thing: instead of telling her to take it up with the manager, I would have reported her for following me around as I shopped.
    I think if I had done that then she would have followed, I can just imagine security, then cops, then me being disarmed( the worst thing, I hate when someone touches my gun, it's mine if you want one go buy one:-)....)
    Criminals donít open carry, most donít wear holsters, none care that you have a No Gun sign up. Good job to all stores who posts signs, all of you have opened yourself to criminals. They now know that you are weak and they will have no resistance in your place of business.

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    [QUOTE=eye95;1999384]

    We now return you to your regularly scheduled MS programming. Congratulations on successfully smacking down the idiots who didn't understand the simple concept of what concealed carry is! Well done!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

    I think you took the words straight from every gun owners mouth in Ms
    Criminals donít open carry, most donít wear holsters, none care that you have a No Gun sign up. Good job to all stores who posts signs, all of you have opened yourself to criminals. They now know that you are weak and they will have no resistance in your place of business.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glocklover20 View Post
    I thank you for your comment but I don't feel that I in any way berated her or caused a big scene I did pop back a few comments which I said above I shouldn't have done, I'm 20 ( just a wi baby ) so I think I handled it a lot better than most 20 year olds would. Also what, in your opinion, would be a better approach? I read and consider every comment I see so it's not going to go in one ear and out the other I promise you that, I don't want anyone to feel they are wasting their time
    Just tell her to go away, she's bothering you .... or ignore her completely ...

    "are you a cop?" people should not answer anyone's questions ....

    she's stressing you !!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vK7Ad8RA6Gs

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    A week ago Sunday evening my wife and I are on our way home from church. We stop at a Dollar General store about a mile from our home. There was no one at the register. I could here him speaking to someone from just down the isle. As they came out there was a man OC'ing nicely dressed. I could see the young man was very scared, but was still being professional in his dealings with the patron. I asked the OC'er. Are you LE or just OC, he said, I just carry this way. I was CC as I was coming from church, we had a short chat about OC and CC. I realized I knew the OC'er from way back. The young man running the register who never said a word during our short chat changed his whole attitude. You could see his fear had subsided. Maybe we help educate this young man somewhat. The OC'er was a fellow minister that I knew from several year ago. I'm happy to say I am seeing more OC in my small community of about 3000 people.
    I am not a gun nut, nor am I a nut with a gun
    I simply rufuse to be a helpless victim, I may be unable to stop myself from being a victim but at least I wont be helpless

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    Quote Originally Posted by XD9_MS View Post
    So you don't have to be 21 to OC in MS but you have to be 21+ to CC? Basically no permit is requires to OC?
    Open carry is protected by the Mississippi Constitution, Article 3, Section 12.
    The right of every citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person, or property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall not be called in question, but the Legislature may regulate or forbid carrying concealed weapons.
    The status of OC was unclear to many in the past, due to fuzzy wording in the statutes regarding concealed carry (concealment "in whole or in part"). What the general populace refers to as "the open carry law" that passed last year, changed that phrase regarding concealment so it was clearer, and added a sentence or two elucidating that a holster/scabbard was not itself concealment. I am not aware of any statutes regarding the minimum age to OC in MS, but I am not all-knowing. 97-37-13 may apply, but it uses the word "concealed", and I haven't noodled over it enough to know for sure.

    Concealed carry is regulated by the state legislature through several laws. From memory: 45-9-101, 97-37-1, 97-37-9; possibly more. The "License to carry stun gun, concealed pistol or revolver" is defined in 45-9-101, and the minimum age for obtaining the permit is 21.

    Now, 97-37-9 outlines several defenses to a charge of CCW (97-37-1). For example, "...he was lawfully engaged in legitimate sports...". None of them define a minimum age, so theoretically it could work for someone <21. HOWEVER!, those are defenses against a charge, not exemptions, meaning you'd have to be arrested and charged before you could claim it, so please don't take this as any advice that it's a good idea.

    OK, I really need to quit rambling and get back to work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4angrybadgers View Post
    Open carry is protected by the Mississippi Constitution, Article 3, Section 12.


    The status of OC was unclear to many in the past, due to fuzzy wording in the statutes regarding concealed carry (concealment "in whole or in part"). What the general populace refers to as "the open carry law" that passed last year, changed that phrase regarding concealment so it was clearer, and added a sentence or two elucidating that a holster/scabbard was not itself concealment. I am not aware of any statutes regarding the minimum age to OC in MS, but I am not all-knowing. 97-37-13 may apply, but it uses the word "concealed", and I haven't noodled over it enough to know for sure.

    Concealed carry is regulated by the state legislature through several laws. From memory: 45-9-101, 97-37-1, 97-37-9; possibly more. The "License to carry stun gun, concealed pistol or revolver" is defined in 45-9-101, and the minimum age for obtaining the permit is 21.

    Now, 97-37-9 outlines several defenses to a charge of CCW (97-37-1). For example, "...he was lawfully engaged in legitimate sports...". None of them define a minimum age, so theoretically it could work for someone <21. HOWEVER!, those are defenses against a charge, not exemptions, meaning you'd have to be arrested and charged before you could claim it, so please don't take this as any advice that it's a good idea.

    OK, I really need to quit rambling and get back to work.
    Thanks for the info! So there still some confusion, or this website has conflicting information on the homepage:

    """As the Mississippi courts have said that a handgun in a holster is concealed in part, a License to Carry a Concealed Pistol or Revolver is required to openly carry a handgun in a holster in Mississippi."""
    http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=261

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    Quote Originally Posted by XD9_MS View Post
    Thanks for the info! So there still some confusion, or this website has conflicting information on the homepage:

    """As the Mississippi courts have said that a handgun in a holster is concealed in part, a License to Carry a Concealed Pistol or Revolver is required to openly carry a handgun in a holster in Mississippi."""
    http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=261
    This information was NEVER accurate, but the owners and mods are aware of the recent change of the concealed statute and have stated that they'd be updating the map and such. Perhaps this will serve as a reminder... Grapeshot??

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glocklover20 View Post
    Yes, the state can't regulate OC from what I understand, they can however regulate cc. I can not buy a handgun but can carry it because the law says that the OC age is 18 and it was a gift from my dad, he could only give me the gun because I was over 18 so I'm no longer underage.
    don't want to interfere in MS forum. but could you give me the law where you can't purchase a handgun at 18 in MS.. i have tried to find it but i have failed. i know you can't in OH, but in a states like VA, NC, you can. the problem with NC is you have to get a PPP, and just try to convince a Sheriff the actual law
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    don't want to interfere in MS forum. but could you give me the law where you can't purchase a handgun at 18 in MS.. i have tried to find it but i have failed. i know you can't in OH, but in a states like VA, NC, you can. the problem with NC is you have to get a PPP, and just try to convince a Sheriff the actual law
    I dont know the actual law I just have been raised on that, also stores have signs that say no handgun ammo or firearms themselves are to be sold to anyone under 21 rifles/shotguns 18. I have honestly believed that was a federal law all this time, guess its not.
    Criminals donít open carry, most donít wear holsters, none care that you have a No Gun sign up. Good job to all stores who posts signs, all of you have opened yourself to criminals. They now know that you are weak and they will have no resistance in your place of business.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glocklover20 View Post
    I dont know the actual law I just have been raised on that, also stores have signs that say no handgun ammo or firearms themselves are to be sold to anyone under 21 rifles/shotguns 18. I have honestly believed that was a federal law all this time, guess its not.
    The Federal law is that a LICENSED seller cannot sell a handgun or ammunition "intended" for a handgun to someone under 21. For any private sales or gifts and for a licensed seller selling a long gun and long gun ammo, the minimum age requirement under Federal law is 18. Therefore, whether or not persons 18-20 can purchase handguns/handgun ammo, or receive the same as a gift, is up to the laws of the state wherein they reside (since handguns cannot be sold across state lines without going through a licensed seller, which triggers the minimum age 21 limit).

    Also, notice that the ammunition limit applies to ammunition "intended for" a handgun. That part gets tricky for ammunition that can be used in long guns and handguns (such as 9mm, .22 LR, and others). As such, some stores will actually ask "are you buying this for a long gun or handgun?"
    Last edited by Nascar24Glock; 10-30-2013 at 07:03 PM.
    "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty."
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    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin

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