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Thread: Winning the aurgument with anti-gunners

  1. #1
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Winning the aurgument with anti-gunners

    http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/...8#/a899b278/96

    Until I learned a better way, I’d counterattack with shock
    troops of facts. Before long there would be gaping wounds
    in their logic, and their ignorance would be bleeding all
    over them.
    Those debates were always
    a lot of fun—especially
    when the people were from
    England—but over time I
    noticed that my opponents
    were mostly leaving angry.
    They’d soon use pride,
    and quite possibly conceit,
    as tourniquets for their
    hemorrhaging self-esteem.
    They’d hate me, and would
    be consoled by others who
    share their viewpoint. Soon,
    the facts I’d used to attack
    their unfounded convictions would fade, and they’d go back
    to feeling morally superior.
    I was winning debates, but I wasn’t helping to change views.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Do you have anything to say about that?

    Or is this just a drive-by posting waiting for the rest of us to figure out why you did post it?

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    I don't normally read his posts, but the thread title is something I care about and have been mentioning in a lot of my posts of late.

    Stop winning the argument, and start winning over people.

    And remember, it is not always the person with whom you are arguing that you will win over. Often, it is someone quietly listening. Winning the argument won't necessarily win the listener over. Clear and rational thinking usually will--and might just bring your debate opponent a little bit your way too. However, when dealing with someone locked into their views, always keep winning over the listener as your goal.

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    The sooner we go on offense the better. Quit calling them anti-gunners and start calling them what they really are, anti-liberty, or anti-American.

  5. #5
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    Yeah! That'll show 'em! Give 'em Hell. It'll make you feel good! Yeah! It'll get the people who already agree with you to give you a +1. Yeah!


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  6. #6
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Do you have anything to say about that?

    Or is this just a drive-by posting waiting for the rest of us to figure out why you did post it?

    stay safe.
    I thought that it was worth reading and sharing.

    Read it or not, the choice is yours, Skidmark.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

  7. #7
    Regular Member Brace's Avatar
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    I think the abstract points are great but the examples are lousy. In a sense he's just saying, employ the socratic method alongside good general communication practices. But then his examples are all very familiar things and mostly come across as aggressive and demeaning. It's likely that he's actually phrasing things in that way in the article when he used a much more appropriate tone on the actual occasions mentioned, but that was the big thing I noticed.

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    I thought that it was worth reading and sharing.

    Read it or not, the choice is yours, Skidmark.
    No. I'd rather read it, read the thoughts/comments of you and others here, and exchange thoughts on the validity/applicability of the quoted piece to OCing and dealing with those that oppose the exience of guns, the carrying of guns, the concept of self responsibility as opposed to being cared for by the state, and a few other issues.

    But as far as I know, you have no thoughts about it. And yet you put it in General Discussion with no expectation that there would be any discussion. Are we merely to be entranced by the fact that you found that and dropped it here?

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  9. #9
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    No. I'd rather read it, read the thoughts/comments of you and others here, and exchange thoughts on the validity/applicability of the quoted piece to OCing and dealing with those that oppose the exience of guns, the carrying of guns, the concept of self responsibility as opposed to being cared for by the state, and a few other issues.

    But as far as I know, you have no thoughts about it. And yet you put it in General Discussion with no expectation that there would be any discussion. Are we merely to be entranced by the fact that you found that and dropped it here?

    stay safe.
    I believe that he makes some really good points.

    We should give the ones who are anti-freedom as much rope to hang themselves as we can. Don't attack them, attack, their, stupid, ideas. It's a matter of letting them know that they could win, if they had any facts. By doing so it allows them a mental win while losing the argument.

    As we encounter, idiots, (anti-freedom people) in our travels, we should have a mental arsenal to use also. This bit of information can be used as part of our mental arsenal for dealing with the morons in the field.

    I think that Gerry Spence gave some of the same advice in his one of his books. It's also mentioned in, "How To Win Friends and Influence People."
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    I believe that he makes some really good points.

    We should give the ones who are anti-freedom as much rope to hang themselves as we can. Don't attack them, attack, their, stupid, ideas. It's a matter of letting them know that they could win, if they had any facts. By doing so it allows them a mental win while losing the argument.

    As we encounter, idiots, (anti-freedom people) in our travels, we should have a mental arsenal to use also. This bit of information can be used as part of our mental arsenal for dealing with the morons in the field.

    I think that Gerry Spence gave some of the same advice in his one of his books. It's also mentioned in, "How To Win Friends and Influence People."
    How can you expect to change any ones ideas/opinions when all you can do is call them degrading names, are you two? It's no wonder they call gun people nuts...why do you stoop to such a level. I am amazed this forum keeps any members there seems to be little to no moderation. We don't win by calling the opposition names.

  11. #11
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    Isn't saying, "are you two?" name-calling???


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  12. #12
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S&W500 View Post
    How can you expect to change any ones ideas/opinions when all you can do is call them degrading names, are you two? It's no wonder they call gun people nuts...why do you stoop to such a level. I am amazed this forum keeps any members there seems to be little to no moderation. We don't win by calling the opposition names.
    I can express how I feel about them here. I don't have to do it to their faces.

    How else would YOU describe 'them'? I would love to know.

    What else would you call those who would want you to be a victim of their actions? They act to enslave you and call you free.

    Hate is love.
    War is peace.
    Slavery is freedom
    Ignorance is strength.

    That is how 'they' want you to think. How can I call anyone who wants me to believe that be anything but "stupid"?
    Last edited by Freedom1Man; 10-28-2013 at 11:33 PM.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

  13. #13
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Win them, the anti-liberty (anti-gun) crowd? Nope, I work to make their view point irrelevant. Irrelevancy is the cruelest form of punishment for their work, via their vote, to deprive me of my liberty. I don't waste one minute of my time with them. There is work to be done and the fence sitters are the ones to be swayed.

    PRINCETON, NJ -- Conservatives have maintained their leading position among U.S. ideological groups in the first half of 2010. Gallup finds 42% of Americans describing themselves as either very conservative or conservative. This is up slightly from the 40% seen for all of 2009 and contrasts with the 20% calling themselves liberal or very liberal.

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/141032/20...-liberals.aspx
    Liberals and their evil ideology, when exposed, or more aptly when a liberal admits he is a liberal, loses his argument and thus liberalism is rejected.

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