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Thread: John R. Lott, Jr. on Piers Morgan, "I get facts out that otherwise wouldn't get ..."

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    John R. Lott, Jr. on Piers Morgan, "I get facts out that otherwise wouldn't get ..."

    "I am frequently asked why I appear on Piers' show. I hope that clips such as this indicate even in the few times that I can talk I get facts out that otherwise wouldn't get into the popular discussion." Video link URL in the original.

    http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2013/1...-had-with.html
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    For a fella who is purported to be one of the bigger brains in the room, he sure don't understand liberals and exactly who Mr. Morgan's audience is, liberals. Those who watch Mr. Morgan would not believe a single word from Mr. Lott even if they were being gunned down in their firearm free home.

    My view of Mr. Lott is diminished slightly.

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    Campaign Veteran Running Wolf's Avatar
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    Actually this improved my opinion of Lott. He calmly stated his position in the face of hysteria and successfully got his point across. Obviously it will not sway anybody who's already made up their mind about the issue, since, well they've already made up their mind.

    Of course I've always had a soft spot for the Quixotic . . .
    When rights are outlawed only outlaws will have rights.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Mr. Lott should be going on TV shows where there is a audience first and foremost. Secondly, the anticipated audience should be perceived as being able to be convinced that Mr. Lott's point do indeed make sense, have merit.

    Mr. Lott did not do that, he went on Mr. Morgan's show instead. Bingo night at the old folks home will have a larger audience.

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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Mr. Lott should be going on TV shows where there is a audience first and foremost. Secondly, the anticipated audience should be perceived as being able to be convinced that Mr. Lott's point do indeed make sense, have merit.

    Mr. Lott did not do that, he went on Mr. Morgan's show instead. Bingo night at the old folks home will have a larger audience.

    +1
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    Regular Member Brace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Mr. Lott should be going on TV shows where there is a audience first and foremost. Secondly, the anticipated audience should be perceived as being able to be convinced that Mr. Lott's point do indeed make sense, have merit.

    Mr. Lott did not do that, he went on Mr. Morgan's show instead. Bingo night at the old folks home will have a larger audience.
    So much for Socratic duty.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Mr. Lott has no duty to change the minds of those who are diametrically opposed to liberty. Thus, going on Mr. Morgan's show was actually a disservice to society. Mr. Lott should know better.

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    Regular Member Brace's Avatar
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    Right. Some human beings are incapable of critical thought or change or any of those other fundamentally human behaviors. So since they can't be reasoned with, they should be ignored and existing trends in political power should be counted on to render their opinions irrelevant. What happens when that approach stops working though? Again, they are fundamentally incapable of critical thought or change, so reasoning with them is not an option. If you can't change their behavior by speech, which is the way human beings non-coercively affect politics, then all that's left is violence and other forms of duplicity (like rigging the vote, for instance). This is the logic you've necessarily committed yourself to, and you've done it by making a casual generalization about a demographic you have no real data about (people who watch a given television show).

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    For a fella who is purported to be one of the bigger brains in the room, he sure don't understand liberals and exactly who Mr. Morgan's audience is, liberals. Those who watch Mr. Morgan would not believe a single word from Mr. Lott even if they were being gunned down in their firearm free home.

    My view of Mr. Lott is diminished slightly.
    An amazing number of liberals are reachable. In my youth, I was a raving socialist. I learned not to be. If it weren't for folks who took the time to argue with me, I wouldn't have changed.

    One of the guys at the gun show rally actually reached one of the liberal antis up there. Everyone we save is another who may yet save more.

    Good on you Mr. Lott. Keep it up.

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    Every year there are a few million people who are new to issues and can be swayed one way or the other.

    It is VITAL that you take every opportunity you can to state your case and make your argument and debate the issue.

    There is no need to attend an NRA meeting or come to open carry board and explain why gun control is bad.

    The people you need to reach are those that disagree with you, not those that agree with you.

    Plus, many people are undecided and uneducated.

    Educate and convince those people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    For a fella who is purported to be one of the bigger brains in the room, he sure don't understand liberals and exactly who Mr. Morgan's audience is, liberals. Those who watch Mr. Morgan would not believe a single word from Mr. Lott even if they were being gunned down in their firearm free home.

    My view of Mr. Lott is diminished slightly.
    In order to win over people with an open mind but on the other side you must first approach them and not expect them to come to you. While I'm sure there's plenty who watch that show who have a closed mind, I'm also sure there's plenty who watch the show (even if they aren't in the audience) who can be reached. Expecting someone who doesn't "currently" agree with you (or is indifferent) to just come to where you are instead of you going to them is a sure-fire way to not reach anywhere near the number of people actually open to the idea.

    Think of this similar to an open carry rally in a place that is hostile to open carry.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Mr. Lott should be going on TV shows where there is a audience first and foremost. Secondly, the anticipated audience should be perceived as being able to be convinced that Mr. Lott's point do indeed make sense, have merit. <snip>
    Focus on the easy nuts to crack, not the hard nut to crack, thus you shall eat the fruits of your labor in a more timely manner.

    Those who watch Mr. Morgan are anti-liberty first and foremost. They will change when they see that they are being left behind as irrelevant.

    I work to convince the undecided, there are a fair number of them in our country, and they vote. Those who vote for liberals, repeatedly, when the affects of liberal policies are clearly evident, are not worth my time. They can read my words, hear my arguments just as those who I intentionally inform and try to convince. Yet liberals will always vote for liberals. If a liberal changes, good on him, I could care less one way or the other.

    Liberals are but ~20% of the population. I'm working to convince the ~35% that liberty needs their support.

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    Regular Member Brace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Those who watch Mr. Morgan are anti-liberty first and foremost. They will change when they see that they are being left behind as irrelevant.
    And what happens when they aren't, but you still need them to change?

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    Campaign Veteran Running Wolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    An amazing number of liberals are reachable. In my youth, I was a raving socialist.
    I agree that people are capable of being reached. One of my favorite quotes attributed to Churchill:

    “Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.”

    Personally my life has been an effort of balancing brains and heart.
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brace View Post
    And what happens when they aren't, but you still need them to change?
    When liberals aren't what? Changed? Who cares, they not changing changes nothing, they are liberals now and thus not being changed in the future they remain liberal.....again, who cares.

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    Regular Member Brace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    When liberals aren't what? Changed? Who cares, they not changing changes nothing, they are liberals now and thus not being changed in the future they remain liberal.....again, who cares.
    When they aren't left behind as irrelevant. That was crystal clear from context.

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    Campaign Veteran Running Wolf's Avatar
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    Actually OC for ME is quite effectively illustrating his point that once people have made up their mind about a topic they are incapable of seeing that topic from a different point of view.
    When rights are outlawed only outlaws will have rights.

    Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. - Hanlon's Razor

    No American citizen should be willing to accept a government that uses its power against its own people. - Catherine Engelbrecht

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Running Wolf View Post
    Actually OC for ME is quite effectively illustrating his point that once people have made up their mind about a topic they are incapable of seeing that topic from a different point of view.
    My point is not about changing the minds of people who have entrenched opinions. Your attempt to tell me what my point is not much different than a liberal telling me that he is not a liberal.

    Changing the opinions of the ~35% is my point and I stated this very clearly earlier in this thread. Reading my words would be a good start in understanding what my point is and where I focus my energies in my meager efforts to restore liberty in any way I can.

    Mr. Lott is a smart fella but he needs to understand his audience. S&W does not target the Brady Bunch crowd to sell their products, that is a waste of time and money. Knowing your audience (customer) enables you to successfully sell your product to that target customer (audience).

    Ya'll can work to convince liberals, and good luck. I have a much larger audience to convince.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post

    Those who watch Mr. Morgan are anti-liberty first and foremost.
    Cite to surveys of audience demographics?

    I suspect that pro-gunners form the majority of Morgan's pitiably small "audience". He's a court jester, the paid whipping boy, whoring himself out for the inevitable "Watch Piers Morgan Get OWNED!" videos.

    If he only had MAIG and Brady Bunch guests who agree with him, he'd have no audience at all.

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    Regular Member 2OLD2W8's Avatar
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    Liberal television media

    My SOAPBOX .... Rant on!

    In our fast growing liberal society, feelings trump fact every time.

    FEELINGS = RESULTS OF EMOTIONS

    Television talking heads will continue to control their agenda driven "debate" over the gun issue. Seems like all the television media C.E.O.'s are LIBERAL ANTI-GUN ZEALOTS.

    Fact based data used by pro gun guests to convey and support the pro gun side of the dialogue will never work in a program "show" owned, produced and hosted by a liberal. The cards are stacked against the pro gun guest!

    Facts are poisonous to a liberal.
    Facts will never stimulate the mind of a liberal.
    Liberals are driven by emotion.

    Liberals always let their (FEELINGS) muddy the waters of debate.

    Rant off...
    “We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” Ayn Rand

    "free people ought...to be armed." In so doing we grasp the larger lesson that the ability to defend ourselves is part and parcel to our freedom. George Washington , January 7, 1790

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    I like jesse ventura on peirs show, that was a good one

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2OLD2W8 View Post
    My SOAPBOX .... Rant on!

    In our fast growing liberal society, feelings trump fact every time.

    FEELINGS = RESULTS OF EMOTIONS

    Television talking heads will continue to control their agenda driven "debate" over the gun issue. Seems like all the television media C.E.O.'s are LIBERAL ANTI-GUN ZEALOTS.

    Fact based data used by pro gun guests to convey and support the pro gun side of the dialogue will never work in a program "show" owned, produced and hosted by a liberal. The cards are stacked against the pro gun guest!

    Facts are poisonous to a liberal.
    Facts will never stimulate the mind of a liberal.
    Liberals are driven by emotion.

    Liberals always let their (FEELINGS) muddy the waters of debate.

    Rant off...
    Again, 40 years ago, I was a liberal, driven by emotion. Folks taking the time to talk facts with me changed my whole outlook.

    Trying to reach liberals might be an endeavor not to your liking (and not to the liking of at least one other poster here), however, we should applaud those who try to change the minds of even just a few liberals.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

    <o>

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Again, 40 years ago, I was a liberal, driven by emotion. Folks taking the time to talk facts with me changed my whole outlook.

    Trying to reach liberals might be an endeavor not to your liking (and not to the liking of at least one other poster here), however, we should applaud those who try to change the minds of even just a few liberals.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

    <o>
    I've engaged in conversations about guns with several liberals. I got some feedback recently from the husband of a liberal, soccer mom type from Montgomery County, Maryland. Apparently my reasoned approach to explaining how criminals weren't going to be following gun laws pretty much by definition got her to rethink some of her beliefs that we need more and more gun laws.

    Mr. Lott should be commened for at least trying. Presenting the results of his research and studies exclusively on NRA TV is just preaching to the choir. Sometimes you need to fight the beast in its own turf.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Again, 40 years ago, I was a liberal, driven by emotion. Folks taking the time to talk facts with me changed my whole outlook.

    Trying to reach liberals might be an endeavor not to your liking (and not to the liking of at least one other poster here), however, we should applaud those who try to change the minds of even just a few liberals.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

    <o>
    Our OC community here engaged anti gunners politely at an anti gun rally while we were OC'ing, you can tell those who move out of hate and emotion and those who are misinformed, I remember after one conversation seeing a lady who was holding her anti 2A sign high and proud, lower it and not hold it up anymore, the conversation was polite respectful and informative, even if she didn't turn pro gun, she realized she was misinformed. Who knows what effect that seed planted that day will have later.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

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    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    Cite to surveys of audience demographics?

    I suspect that pro-gunners form the majority of Morgan's pitiably small "audience". He's a court jester, the paid whipping boy, whoring himself out for the inevitable "Watch Piers Morgan Get OWNED!" videos.

    If he only had MAIG and Brady Bunch guests who agree with him, he'd have no audience at all.
    Cite to surveys of audience demographics?

    Two can play at that game.

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