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Thread: Who Wants To Help Out DPD?

  1. #1
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Who Wants To Help Out DPD?

    DETROIT (WWJ) - Detroit police on the beat in an insolvent city have resorted to buying their own gear.


    That includes uniforms, according to Detroit Police Officers Association President Mark Diaz, who says the first compliment is issued by the Detroit Police Department — but officers are pretty much on their own after that.


    http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2013/10/31/cops-buy-own-uniforms-bullets-in-cash-strapped-detroit/
    I wonder if the good and honorable Mr. Diaz would be willing to use union funds, not marked for benefits, to assist the rank and file? It could mean that Mr. Diaz and the other union bureaucrats would need to tighten their belts for a change, in the name of public safety and officer safety of course.

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Really - how much can a hoodie, baggy pants, and dew rags cost? That's what most DPD officers should be wearing. That way the public can easily identify the THUGs in DPD ranks.

    They should watch this video everyday to remind them why they are where they are - decades of BS & federal overwatch and still not much good coming out of DPD

    Most folks feel like this about DPD

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_TYom5_gDk
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 10-31-2013 at 10:33 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    When I saw this scene I was pissed off and punched my TV ... how did the movie end?

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    I'll say what I say when the telemarketers call for donations for Police bulletproof vests.

    They choose their job, no on is forcing them to do it. No one subsidizes my job by buying me tools and equipment that I need to do my work and preform my duties. If they want a uniform, vest or a gun let them go buy it themselves if their department won't provide it for them.

    They can take the tax deduction and get what they want.

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    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    In addition, Diaz said, although cops are given ammunition for weapons qualification, many officers have to buy their own bullets to have enough to stay sharp... Diaz said. “It’s not uncommon for officers to spend thousands of dollars a year just on ammunition.”

    How uncommon? I would like numbers to prove that officers are practicing that much on their own dime. Also anyone know what qualifying for a DPD officer entails?

    Maybe the DPD can throw a bake sale to get money for uniforms?
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    Quote Originally Posted by 22Luke36 View Post
    Isn't it normal practice in most businesses and trades to buy your own clothes?

    These people make too much money already.
    They need the money to by Donu.....

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    It’s not uncommon for officers to spend thousands of dollars a year just on ammunition.”

    How uncommon? I would like numbers to prove that officers are practicing that much on their own dime.

    I certainly don't have much sympathy if it's the case. Basic proficiency of workable systems do not require that level of ammo consumption. Not a bad use of hobby money, but still not necessary.
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    I've heard rumors that Detroit's population has dwindled severely. Do they still keep hiring to maintain the same total number of police officers? Has their ratio of cops to population significantly been changed?

    In other words, is this the reason for lack of sufficient funding?

    That said, I see nothing wrong with cops buying their own uniforms. This is standard practice in many jobs that have a uniform.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    I've heard rumors that Detroit's population has dwindled severely. Do they still keep hiring to maintain the same total number of police officers? Has their ratio of cops to population significantly been changed?

    In other words, is this the reason for lack of sufficient funding?

    That said, I see nothing wrong with cops buying their own uniforms. This is standard practice in many jobs that have a uniform.
    it's not uncommon for cops in rural areas to pay for their own stuff while making low wages.

    my cousin applied for a SO in Montana what pays 13 bucks an hour and the only provided equipment is a uniform, badge, and gun belt. you have to buy your own gun off an approved list and your own cuffs, baton, etc....
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    I guess the City of Detroit website is not yet updated.

    It says they make $47k+ annually after only 5 years. I've never seen a job that nearly doubled in salary after 5 years. Wow.

    Still says they get an annual uniform allowance. Maybe they just feel it isn't enough or doesn't cover replacements due to "damages" or not fitting into them anymore.

    http://www.detroitmi.gov/Departments...iceCareer.aspx
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 22Luke36 View Post
    Ok, anybody know how much they make, and how much they are going to have to spend? What exactly, are we really discussing here?
    Holy s........ 25,000 is their salary..http://www.indeed.com/salary/q-Polic...troit,-MI.html

    Wow. So I hope some of the guys can take back at least some of the negative comments. So ammo is damn near a dollar a bullet and they make 25,000 a year. uniform shirts are 90 bucks a piece and pants are 100.00 a piece.

    Put that together with they are cotton/wool/polyster and you have to touch nasty people and/or rip them fighting with people...... alot of money....

    The only thing else I'll say is, to those who don't want to pitch in for guys getting extra AMMO (not food, clothes, gear, or even vests) remember you said that the next time they zing a civilian. Wait for the "they shot 10,000 roudns and missed the bad guys! These ......" That's the standard response when someone gets hit. We gets 100 rds per year for practice and we qualify/train firearms for one day a year. So do the math... we get 2 bullets to practice a week. Yes 2...... I happen to shoot more like 100 a week, but that's all money out of my pocket (money well spent).

    This site didn't show the doubling of salary in 5 years. Duly noted. Yet the other numbers still apply.
    Last edited by Primus; 11-03-2013 at 08:39 PM.

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Don't forget to factor in their reimbursed college classes, full medical, optical, and dental, extra pay for odd shifts like afternoons, and 20-vacation days every year. Who else gets a paid month-off every year along with an annual pay increase that can pay for a couple courses at GunSite?

    How many other 21-year-olds can even expect the meager salary of a first-year cop in any other profession?

    Of course, topping out at just under $50K base salary might seem unfair when they look at what cops make in some other places.
    Last edited by MAC702; 11-03-2013 at 08:51 PM.
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  13. #13
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 22Luke36 View Post
    A dollar a shot too dude? They don't just shoot JHP at the range you know, any more than we do.
    Sure, you could reload or shoot FMJ low power target ammo for less money. But when you pull the trigger on your duty ammo HP High Power its different. I train like I fight, so I pay the price. Is that a bad thing?

  14. #14
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Don't forget to factor in their reimbursed college classes, full medical and dental, extra pay for odd shifts like afternoons, and 20-vacation days every year. Who else gets a paid month-off every year along with an annual pay increase that can pay for a couple courses at GunSite?

    How many other 21-year-olds can even expect the meager salary of a first-year cop in any other profession?
    Cite please....

    Because I certainly don't get any of that except shift differential. I get 2 weeks per year (I admit will eventually get more weeks in a few years). We haven't received a pay increase in 3 years and definitely don't get paid for education.

    Note: NOT COMPLAINING. We make a good living. As do a million other good jobs. In fact out of most of my peers I make the least (construction, mechanics, nurses, etc.) and work weekends and holidays. Again, not complaining or saying those guys should get any extra money for anything then AMMO. Please read that sentence again.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 22Luke36 View Post
    I reload, do you? I can tell you, for those reasons I try to make my range ammo act like my carry ammo. It's not that difficult really. I have also shot hundreds of rounds of my carry ammo. Honestly, my felt recoil is quite similar, but I group better with plain old home cast lead. Of course they can't carry those but I have made a valid point regardless.
    I have not started reloading. We carry glocks, so if you reload you have to use the fancy stuff anyways.... and maybe your carry ammo isn't as hi-po as the duty ammo I was referring to. Please this is spiralling. I made my point you made yours. Moving on...

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Cite please.....
    I already did in Post #13. I should have mentioned that, sorry. It's on that same City of Detroit page I linked.
    Last edited by MAC702; 11-03-2013 at 08:59 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    The only thing else I'll say is, to those who don't want to pitch in for guys getting extra AMMO (not food, clothes, gear, or even vests) remember you said that the next time they zing a civilian. Wait for the "they shot 10,000 roudns and missed the bad guys! These ......" That's the standard response when someone gets hit. .
    Total rounds fired is not nearly as important as the quality of practice. In the case of cops, there is often a rather dismal rate of hitting bad guys when methods are based on target shooting rather than fighting, which, to be fair, DPD officers I've talked to in the past seem to understand better than most. I could see complaining a little about needing to spend 500 out of pocket to stay sharp, but much more than that and it's either PR nonsense, or whining about an expensive hobby.
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  18. #18
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 22Luke36 View Post
    Who told you that you need special stuff to reload a Glock? You don't, there was a problem a long long time ago with a few Glock barrels not supporting the cases completely, and after several reloads, the cases could rupture, a serious and dangerous problem. That has long since been corrected. The polygonal rifling is also a non issue, even with cast bullets , if they are fitted to the bore correctly, powder is matched appropriately, and the alloy is selected according to what you are loading for, then you aren't going to have an issue at all. Glocks are fine firearms, and reloading for them is common practice.
    This originally came to my attention with guys I shoot USPSA with. I noticed one of the guys had the blue bullets (the lead covered in the poly) in his glock, we got chatting about it since I was spending 30 for a box of 25. He explained that he uses the poly coated bullets because lead CAN wreck the gun.

    Also posted cite....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygonal_rifling

    This actually states that Glock has stated not to use lead in their rifling. I didn't write the post, just citing.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Glock Lead

    Also, http://id.glock.com/answer/question/view/id/4

    hoping you can read that. It's a previous question right to GLOCK on the Glockid website/forum. They also advise against using lead. Again, each to his own. You may shoot dirt in yours lined with iron. I'm just trying to be helpful....

    And there dated response was 01/22/2013, so recent
    Last edited by Primus; 11-03-2013 at 09:16 PM.

  20. #20
    Regular Member OneForAll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 22Luke36 View Post
    Thanks for providing a cite.

    Lead can't hurt steel, it isn't hard enough. Misunderstanding how reloading works will ruin any gun.
    lol, can you imagine using smokeless powder in a muzzle loader.
    "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
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    "The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Don't forget to factor in their reimbursed college classes, full medical, optical, and dental, extra pay for odd shifts like afternoons, and 20-vacation days every year. Who else gets a paid month-off every year along with an annual pay increase that can pay for a couple courses at GunSite?

    How many other 21-year-olds can even expect the meager salary of a first-year cop in any other profession?

    Of course, topping out at just under $50K base salary might seem unfair when they look at what cops make in some other places.
    very few cops are 21 year old high school graduates these days, most are college educated to a degree and large minorities are military veterans. my guess is 47K is on the low end of police pay. Seattle PD starts that much as the entry level for an entry hire, of course Seattle is a city with a booming economy and budget surpluses and has recently made themselves more business friendly (hint hint there Detroit). I think working in a dangerous town like detroit is worth a little more then 47K. remember after 5 years the pay increases come to a screeching halt and they only increase by minor amounts (usually tied to the CPI)

    The police agencies rarely just give out 20 days of paid vacation, alot of times comp time is included in that (ie, you must work overtime because the comi-con is in town this weekend and we need everyone at work all weekend even if you don't normally work during the weekend) and then they get a paid day off in exchange to be taken later. (currently only public employers may use comp time) so in some cases, cops (along with other public employees) work overtime without time and a half and in return get a vacation day sometime in the future....

    what I see more as a problem is not the fact that cops make more now then the average american, but that the pay of the average american has declined to where public servant wages have become higher.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member OneForAll's Avatar
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    I work in the airline industry and upon entry into my position, had to buy a list of tools for the job which were required by the first day at work. I think that this is alright because, at the end of the day they are mine and come home with me if I so choose. The difference between Detroit Police Department and other law enforcement agencies is they have options in the manufacturer of their tools (guns, ammo, etc...). Me personally, I have to buy Snap-On or Blue-Point or similar quality tools which are required. If the cops do not like it, is there a desk job no one else wants?

    I reload for a Springfield Armory .40 S&W and they say not to use lead, and if you do the firearm is not covered under warranty. Guess what? No problems, and whats amazing is, no leading which is a common term for any re-loader who cast their own bullets. And if you really believe that lead can hurt steel, you could just buy jacketed bullets at the store.
    "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
    - Richard Henry Lee
    "The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
    - Samuel Adams

    Some random person, "I will not give up safety because of a few misplaced concerns of the uneducated." end quote...

  23. #23
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Also, http://id.glock.com/answer/question/view/id/4

    hoping you can read that. It's a previous question right to GLOCK on the Glockid website/forum. They also advise against using lead. Again, each to his own. You may shoot dirt in yours lined with iron. I'm just trying to be helpful....

    And there dated response was 01/22/2013, so recent
    A guy who's opinion is worthy of consideration on this matter is Tim Sundles of Buffalo Bore. Here is what he has to say.

    https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...duct_list&c=59
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

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  24. #24
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 22Luke36 View Post
    Lol, good one.

    Copper wears out barrels, lead does not.
    Just to clarify... it's not about WEARING the barrels guys.... It's about a build up lead in the grooves because of its design, which causes OVER pressure and boom. Even the guys who do use it say clean after EVERY shooting session and they usually limit the rounds they shoot. Others mix jacketed with lead. Not trying to beat a dead horse but you guys seem to be hung up on the "wearing down" factor. I'm attempting to clarify it for other guys who may have more of a concern about their firearms and want to know the reasons stated by Glock. Either way, be safe.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    A guy who's opinion is worthy of consideration on this matter is Tim Sundles of Buffalo Bore. Here is what he has to say.

    https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...duct_list&c=59

    Good cite. He's explaining what I'm trying to say better. If you use "hard cast"(states they are not "lead" bullets) and lube them then you are good to go because they are just as hard (close) as jacketed ammo. He repeats NOT to use regular lead bullets (soft lead bullets) because they foul quickly.
    Last edited by Primus; 11-03-2013 at 10:10 PM.

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