Who Wants To Help Out DPD?

Primus said:

Sure, you could reload or shoot FMJ low power target ammo for less money. But when you pull the trigger on your duty ammo HP High Power its different. I train like I fight, so I pay the price. Is that a bad thing?

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I reload, do you? I can tell you, for those reasons I try to make my range ammo act like my carry ammo. It's not that difficult really. I have also shot hundreds of rounds of my carry ammo. Honestly, my felt recoil is quite similar, but I group better with plain old home cast lead. Of course they can't carry those but I have made a valid point regardless.

MAC702 said:

Don't forget to factor in their reimbursed college classes, full medical and dental, extra pay for odd shifts like afternoons, and 20-vacation days every year. Who else gets a paid month-off every year along with an annual pay increase that can pay for a couple courses at GunSite?

How many other 21-year-olds can even expect the meager salary of a first-year cop in any other profession?

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Cite please....

Because I certainly don't get any of that except shift differential. I get 2 weeks per year (I admit will eventually get more weeks in a few years). We haven't received a pay increase in 3 years and definitely don't get paid for education.

Note: NOT COMPLAINING. We make a good living. As do a million other good jobs. In fact out of most of my peers I make the least (construction, mechanics, nurses, etc.) and work weekends and holidays. Again, not complaining or saying those guys should get any extra money for anything then AMMO. Please read that sentence again.

22Luke36 said:

I reload, do you? I can tell you, for those reasons I try to make my range ammo act like my carry ammo. It's not that difficult really. I have also shot hundreds of rounds of my carry ammo. Honestly, my felt recoil is quite similar, but I group better with plain old home cast lead. Of course they can't carry those but I have made a valid point regardless.

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I have not started reloading. We carry glocks, so if you reload you have to use the fancy stuff anyways.... and maybe your carry ammo isn't as hi-po as the duty ammo I was referring to. Please this is spiralling. I made my point you made yours. Moving on...

Primus said:

Cite please.....

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I already did in Post #13. I should have mentioned that, sorry. It's on that same City of Detroit page I linked.

Who told you that you need special stuff to reload a Glock? You don't, there was a problem a long long time ago with a few Glock barrels not supporting the cases completely, and after several reloads, the cases could rupture, a serious and dangerous problem. That has long since been corrected. The polygonal rifling is also a non issue, even with cast bullets , if they are fitted to the bore correctly, powder is matched appropriately, and the alloy is selected according to what you are loading for, then you aren't going to have an issue at all. Glocks are fine firearms, and reloading for them is common practice.

Primus said:

The only thing else I'll say is, to those who don't want to pitch in for guys getting extra AMMO (not food, clothes, gear, or even vests) remember you said that the next time they zing a civilian. Wait for the "they shot 10,000 roudns and missed the bad guys! These ......" That's the standard response when someone gets hit. .

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Total rounds fired is not nearly as important as the quality of practice. In the case of cops, there is often a rather dismal rate of hitting bad guys when methods are based on target shooting rather than fighting, which, to be fair, DPD officers I've talked to in the past seem to understand better than most. I could see complaining a little about needing to spend 500 out of pocket to stay sharp, but much more than that and it's either PR nonsense, or whining about an expensive hobby.

22Luke36 said:

Who told you that you need special stuff to reload a Glock? You don't, there was a problem a long long time ago with a few Glock barrels not supporting the cases completely, and after several reloads, the cases could rupture, a serious and dangerous problem. That has long since been corrected. The polygonal rifling is also a non issue, even with cast bullets , if they are fitted to the bore correctly, powder is matched appropriately, and the alloy is selected according to what you are loading for, then you aren't going to have an issue at all. Glocks are fine firearms, and reloading for them is common practice.

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This originally came to my attention with guys I shoot USPSA with. I noticed one of the guys had the blue bullets (the lead covered in the poly) in his glock, we got chatting about it since I was spending 30 for a box of 25. He explained that he uses the poly coated bullets because lead CAN wreck the gun.

Also posted cite....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygonal_rifling

This actually states that Glock has stated not to use lead in their rifling. I didn't write the post, just citing.

Thanks for providing a cite.

Lead can't hurt steel, it isn't hard enough. Misunderstanding how reloading works will ruin any gun.

Glock Lead

Also, http://id.glock.com/answer/question/view/id/4

hoping you can read that. It's a previous question right to GLOCK on the Glockid website/forum. They also advise against using lead. Again, each to his own. You may shoot dirt in yours lined with iron. I'm just trying to be helpful....

And there dated response was 01/22/2013, so recent

22Luke36 said:

Thanks for providing a cite.

Lead can't hurt steel, it isn't hard enough. Misunderstanding how reloading works will ruin any gun.

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lol, can you imagine using smokeless powder in a muzzle loader.

Every manufacturer I know of discourages reloading. Because people blow up guns, and then claim warranty on them.

OneForAll said:

lol, can you imagine using smokeless powder in a muzzle loader.

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Yes, and I'm sure a quick visit to google images would render some amusing results. Brb this should be good.

ETA. I dont know about amusing anymore, ick that wasnt funny.

MAC702 said:

Don't forget to factor in their reimbursed college classes, full medical, optical, and dental, extra pay for odd shifts like afternoons, and 20-vacation days every year. Who else gets a paid month-off every year along with an annual pay increase that can pay for a couple courses at GunSite?

How many other 21-year-olds can even expect the meager salary of a first-year cop in any other profession?

Of course, topping out at just under $50K base salary might seem unfair when they look at what cops make in some other places.

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very few cops are 21 year old high school graduates these days, most are college educated to a degree and large minorities are military veterans. my guess is 47K is on the low end of police pay. Seattle PD starts that much as the entry level for an entry hire, of course Seattle is a city with a booming economy and budget surpluses and has recently made themselves more business friendly (hint hint there Detroit). I think working in a dangerous town like detroit is worth a little more then 47K. remember after 5 years the pay increases come to a screeching halt and they only increase by minor amounts (usually tied to the CPI)

The police agencies rarely just give out 20 days of paid vacation, alot of times comp time is included in that (ie, you must work overtime because the comi-con is in town this weekend and we need everyone at work all weekend even if you don't normally work during the weekend) and then they get a paid day off in exchange to be taken later. (currently only public employers may use comp time) so in some cases, cops (along with other public employees) work overtime without time and a half and in return get a vacation day sometime in the future....

what I see more as a problem is not the fact that cops make more now then the average american, but that the pay of the average american has declined to where public servant wages have become higher.

I work in the airline industry and upon entry into my position, had to buy a list of tools for the job which were required by the first day at work. I think that this is alright because, at the end of the day they are mine and come home with me if I so choose. The difference between Detroit Police Department and other law enforcement agencies is they have options in the manufacturer of their tools (guns, ammo, etc...). Me personally, I have to buy Snap-On or Blue-Point or similar quality tools which are required. If the cops do not like it, is there a desk job no one else wants?

I reload for a Springfield Armory .40 S&W and they say not to use lead, and if you do the firearm is not covered under warranty. Guess what? No problems, and whats amazing is, no leading which is a common term for any re-loader who cast their own bullets. And if you really believe that lead can hurt steel, you could just buy jacketed bullets at the store.

OneForAll said:

If the cops do not like it, is there a desk job no one else wants?

I reload for a Springfield Armory .40 S&W and they say not to use lead, and if you do the firearm is not covered under warranty. Guess what? No problems, and whats amazing is, no leading which is a common term for any re-loader who cast their own bullets. And if you really believe that lead can hurt steel, you could just buy jacketed bullets at the store.

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Lol, good one.

Copper wears out barrels, lead does not.

Primus said:

Also, http://id.glock.com/answer/question/view/id/4

hoping you can read that. It's a previous question right to GLOCK on the Glockid website/forum. They also advise against using lead. Again, each to his own. You may shoot dirt in yours lined with iron. I'm just trying to be helpful....

And there dated response was 01/22/2013, so recent

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A guy who's opinion is worthy of consideration on this matter is Tim Sundles of Buffalo Bore. Here is what he has to say.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=59

22Luke36 said:

Lol, good one.

Copper wears out barrels, lead does not.

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Just to clarify... it's not about WEARING the barrels guys.... It's about a build up lead in the grooves because of its design, which causes OVER pressure and boom. Even the guys who do use it say clean after EVERY shooting session and they usually limit the rounds they shoot. Others mix jacketed with lead. Not trying to beat a dead horse but you guys seem to be hung up on the "wearing down" factor. I'm attempting to clarify it for other guys who may have more of a concern about their firearms and want to know the reasons stated by Glock. Either way, be safe.

Michigander said:

A guy who's opinion is worthy of consideration on this matter is Tim Sundles of Buffalo Bore. Here is what he has to say.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=59

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Good cite. He's explaining what I'm trying to say better. If you use "hard cast"(states they are not "lead" bullets) and lube them then you are good to go because they are just as hard (close) as jacketed ammo. He repeats NOT to use regular lead bullets (soft lead bullets) because they foul quickly.

Since you clarified, so will i. I have seen guns with amazing amounts of lead in the bore. They werent hitting anything, but whatever. As I said, bad reloading practices. All you have to do, is look. If your bullet fit is right, pressures and alloys correct, you can run lead. If your gun is dirty, clean it.

Primus said:

Good cite. He's explaining what I'm trying to say better. If you use "hard cast"(states they are not "lead" bullets) and lube them then you are good to go because they are just as hard (close) as jacketed ammo. He repeats NOT to use regular lead bullets (soft lead bullets) because they foul quickly.

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You can't use pure lead in much of anything, are you serious here?

My .40 is at about 17.5 BHN, lead is at 7. I'm running hard cast in a S&W .40 and it practically polishes the bore.