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Thread: Lunch on 11/09/13

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    Lunch on 11/09/13

    For us that live in the Kansas City , Kiberty area, lets have Lunch at the Golden Corel at 291 & Church Road.

    WILL THE WEB MASTER FOR MISSOURI OPEN CARRY PLEASE KEEP THE WEB PAGE CURRENT!!

    YOU ARE SIX MONTHS BEHIND !

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    Six months behind what?
    "Somebody ever tries to kill you, you try and kill em right back!" - Captain Malcolm Reynolds

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    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotya View Post
    For us that live in the Kansas City , Kiberty area, lets have Lunch at the Golden Corel at 291 & Church Road.

    WILL THE WEB MASTER FOR MISSOURI OPEN CARRY PLEASE KEEP THE WEB PAGE CURRENT!!

    YOU ARE SIX MONTHS BEHIND !
    Not too long ago they let the site go down. With the recent but failed OC bill I asked them to put it back up, which they did.
    I do not think anyone is bucking up with $ to keep it going.
    The level of chat from the west side has decreased a lot.

    With a decrease in activists the chances of success for OC rights is diminished greatly...
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
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    Quote Originally Posted by mspgunner View Post
    Not too long ago they let the site go down. With the recent but failed OC bill I asked them to put it back up, which they did.
    I do not think anyone is bucking up with $ to keep it going.
    The level of chat from the west side has decreased a lot.

    With a decrease in activists the chances of success for OC rights is diminished greatly...
    Why has there been a decrease in activists? Do people stop believing in open carry, or could there be some other reason?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Hartman View Post
    Why has there been a decrease in activists? Do people stop believing in open carry, or could there be some other reason?
    Because folks are weary of putting forth monies and effort only to get hosed by politicians and those claiming to be our friends.
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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    Quote Originally Posted by gotya View Post
    For us that live in the Kansas City , Kiberty area, lets have Lunch at the Golden Corel at 291 & Church Road.

    WILL THE WEB MASTER FOR MISSOURI OPEN CARRY PLEASE KEEP THE WEB PAGE CURRENT!!

    YOU ARE SIX MONTHS BEHIND !
    What time? My wife and I will be there. We'll even bring some free buttons for all those that attend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LMTD View Post
    Because folks are weary of putting forth monies and effort only to get hosed by politicians and those claiming to be our friends.
    I think there may be other factors involved. What happens when a new activist comes here to share information about an organization he's involved with? Let's see:

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ry-association

    That was some welcome! When I commented on the "Open Carry in Missouri" Facebook page, showing the logical flaws in the proposed open carry bill in Missouri, what was the response I got?

    "Brent Hartman, you are way behind on the history of OC. So much so I can't even begin to explain it too you."

    While I'm not surprised that supporters of a logically flawed bill would engage in logical fallacies when their proposed bill was criticized, I'm not sure that is the most productive way to move forward. Do you think that creates a desire in me to work with a person that implied that I was too ignorant to have something explained to me?

    Now, back to the topic of the OP, is anyone planning on attending the open carry lunch in Liberty? That's over an hour away from me, so if no one is going, I think I'll take my lovely wife out to eat somewhere closer. If one other person wants to show up, then that is worth it to me to make the drive. Even if it's someone that thinks I'm a moron, if you support open carry, I'd like to have lunch with you.

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    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Hartman View Post
    I think there may be other factors involved. What happens when a new activist comes here to share information about an organization he's involved with? Let's see:

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ry-association

    That was some welcome! When I commented on the "Open Carry in Missouri" Facebook page, showing the logical flaws in the proposed open carry bill in Missouri, what was the response I got?

    "Brent Hartman, you are way behind on the history of OC. So much so I can't even begin to explain it too you."

    While I'm not surprised that supporters of a logically flawed bill would engage in logical fallacies when their proposed bill was criticized, I'm not sure that is the most productive way to move forward. Do you think that creates a desire in me to work with a person that implied that I was too ignorant to have something explained to me?

    Now, back to the topic of the OP, is anyone planning on attending the open carry lunch in Liberty? That's over an hour away from me, so if no one is going, I think I'll take my lovely wife out to eat somewhere closer. If one other person wants to show up, then that is worth it to me to make the drive. Even if it's someone that thinks I'm a moron, if you support open carry, I'd like to have lunch with you.
    Anyone is welcome to participate in the OC legislative process. Over the past few days I've been emailing and been on the phone with other activists and elected officials from Jeff City (Office holders).
    There are political realities and there are "wants". "WE" want preemption, "we" want constitutional carry. Great, eventually I do believe we will have preemption, perhaps as early as 2015, but certainly not in 2014, that's reality. There will be no amendments accepted to the 2nd Amendment Preservation Act in the Missouri House - That's a fact! Personally I'd like to see an emergency clause built into it when it leaves the Senate, if we get that we've done well and the odds are not with us.

    Anyone can call, write, Email or visit their rlected officials and seek anything they want, and I wish you good luck. OK, I don't handle critics very well. I catch it from all sides. I've been at this political stuff for over a decade hot and heavy since I was a candidate for the Missouri house. That and the work I've done for elected (and some not) officials has given me and others a lot of latitude for inside "chat".

    The "system" is not easy to learn, contacts take time to make and trust must be earned. There are others on this forum besides myself who have given much for the OC effort. NO, I don't just throw my arms out to everyone who wants to work with me. Loose lips sink ships, and this has never been more true then in politics. I and the foolks I work with or have worked wityh from this forum have been a great help, and "YES" we started off making some BIG mistakes with some very powerful people both in and out of the "official" political spectrum.

    There are new people coming around who will go to Jefferson City for hearings and who are establishing a good 2A relationship with House and Senate members.
    A lot, most of what happens is NOT posted here, it is done through PMs and Emails. "WE" know the "Media" and those who are against any 2A action watch this and other sights every single day.
    "WE" have our contacts too.

    The political process is not an easy one. The idea of getting what anyone wants to become a bill that becomes a law is a very long and difficuly process by design.
    With over 2,000 bills introduced every year, few ever become law, that is by design.

    It's a tough road, step by step we go.............Caution and being smart are important. Contacts and how to use them are absolutely essential.
    Every step in the right direction is a good step, we've had a few steps back ward, but we are getting better every year.
    Firearm rights are not popular in every circle.... Have an idea, feel free, go for it...............
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
    Certified NRA Range Safety Officer - RSO

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    I would like to go to the oc lunch can I get more info. Like what time will it start?


    Sent from Rolo's iPhone 5 using Tapatalk 2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Hartman View Post
    I think there may be other factors involved.
    You can "think" whatever you want, you can even say whatever you want to say, neither will change facts and sir, I stated FACT.
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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    Quote Originally Posted by LMTD View Post
    You can "think" whatever you want, you can even say whatever you want to say, neither will change facts and sir, I stated FACT.
    I provided evidence to back my assertions. Show me some evidence that supports your so-called facts.

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    NRA flash bill.

    They altered, or more specifically, they pressured a freshman legislator to alter an OC bill that had already been rolled into the omnibus bill set to pass.

    Several people put forward a lot of time and effort only to have our "friends" the NRA destroy it.

    There have also been numerous other advocates for CCW who are on record as not willing to support OC.

    Read along and try and keep up.
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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    Quote Originally Posted by LMTD View Post
    NRA flash bill.

    They altered, or more specifically, they pressured a freshman legislator to alter an OC bill that had already been rolled into the omnibus bill set to pass.

    Several people put forward a lot of time and effort only to have our "friends" the NRA destroy it.

    There have also been numerous other advocates for CCW who are on record as not willing to support OC.

    Read along and try and keep up.
    You have not provided any evidence of causation between the events that you posted and people leaving the movement. On the other hand, if you read the thread that I linked to, you will find people that said the attitudes and egos of some of the people here have caused them to distance themselves from some of the so-called leaders in the open carry movement in Missouri.

    "Read along and try and keep up."

    LOL! I don't think we're headed in the same direction, but thanks for the offer!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Hartman View Post
    LOL! I don't think we're headed in the same direction, but thanks for the offer!
    That is why there is no 'movement'.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Hartman View Post
    You have not provided any evidence of causation between the events that you posted and people leaving the movement. On the other hand, if you read the thread that I linked to, you will find people that said the attitudes and egos of some of the people here have caused them to distance themselves from some of the so-called leaders in the open carry movement in Missouri.

    "Read along and try and keep up."

    LOL! I don't think we're headed in the same direction, but thanks for the offer!
    You were not there, LMTD and I were. The evidence is in the bill presented by the Representative from Pitosi Mr. Fitzwater, it is in the journal of the House. He called us to go to Jefferson City and speak in favor of his bill. Further "EVIDENCE" is in the Journal of the House in the amendment that killed OC that year. The Gentleman who introduced the flash bill and us have long since "kissed and made up". It took quite a bit of give and take to get him om "OUR" side, basically he knows better and I've shaken his hand several times since. As a freshman he just listened to the powwer that was. This is what i mean when I talk about the history of OC in Missouri. "WE" have worked hard to get those who opposed us to support OC or at least remain neutral and vote yes. Every single vote counts, even if it means kissing you know what.

    If you go to Jefferson City and "demand this, demand that", you will not only walk away with nothing, you may screw up 4 years of work to get anything. Think about it. The movement has identified black sheep activists in the past who have hurt us badly. You don't want to be that person. Twice individuals have literally KILLED OC bills because of stupidity in the actions.

    Be positive and work for the cause, it's easy to point fingers and destroy, not easy to build on past success for the OC goal which is rapidly becoming a reality.
    We'll get there, one step at a time.
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
    Certified NRA Range Safety Officer - RSO

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    That is why there is no 'movement'.
    The following thread is why there is no movement.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ry-association

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Hartman View Post
    The following thread is why there is no movement.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ry-association
    Bwahahahahahaha, thank you for the educational laugh.

    You have no clue what so ever as for the reasoning for my comments in that thread.

    Ryan's spammer thread, now that is some funny stuff right there.

    Good show Brent, good show.
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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    Quote Originally Posted by LMTD View Post
    Bwahahahahahaha, thank you for the educational laugh.

    You have no clue what so ever as for the reasoning for my comments in that thread.

    Ryan's spammer thread, now that is some funny stuff right there.

    Good show Brent, good show.
    ^ This is what constitutes reasoned debate by the so-called leaders of the open carry movement in Missouri. We are truly in a sad state. It's no wonder they haven't been able to get a good open carry bill passed. Read the thread that LMTD is laughing about. Read the comments in that thread of people that are discouraged by the vitriol shown towards the group in Sedalia. This isn't a joke. There was nothing funny about the way that group was treated.

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    Regular Member JEStucker's Avatar
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    So, how'd the lunch today go? Any pictures? I would have tried to be there, but I had to make a trip to Carthage, MO and back today.

    Oh, and why is this thread in the Mississippi forum now, as it's clearly being discussed by folks from Missouri?
    Last edited by JEStucker; 11-09-2013 at 07:02 PM.

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    I went by there around 1 and I didn't see anybody that was oc so I didn't stop


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    It's an INVASION!
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

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