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Thread: 2a amendment preservation act for 2014`

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    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    2a amendment preservation act for 2014`

    This is what is to go to the Missouri Senate in 2014. It "IS" public information btw:
    It's what we will get if anything for OC.

    Summary of the bill: http://www.senate.mo.gov/13info/memb...ll_summary.pdf
    Draft of the bill: http://www.senate.mo.gov/13info/members/D32/gunbill.pdf
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
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    Quote Originally Posted by mspgunner View Post
    This is what is to go to the Missouri Senate in 2014. It "IS" public information btw:
    It's what we will get if anything for OC.

    Summary of the bill: http://www.senate.mo.gov/13info/memb...ll_summary.pdf
    Draft of the bill: http://www.senate.mo.gov/13info/members/D32/gunbill.pdf
    Haven't finished reading through the full bill yet, but the link for the Summary is broken.
    "Somebody ever tries to kill you, you try and kill em right back!" - Captain Malcolm Reynolds

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    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oramac View Post
    Haven't finished reading through the full bill yet, but the link for the Summary is broken.
    Sorry the summary doesn't work, the OC part is the same as last year. I'm glad they left it in.
    I did seek to change it and make it less restictive. I was told it was already "vetted" this year without much objection. Best to take what we can get, this took 4 years of work.

    If anyone wants to go for more... feel free. I'm happy after 4 years of busting butt to get anything!
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oramac View Post
    Haven't finished reading through the full bill yet, but the link for the Summary is broken.
    Fixed summary link: http://www.senate.mo.gov/13info/memb...ll_summary.pdf

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    The below is provided as a citation.
    Arrest. 544.180. An arrest is made by an actual restraint of the person of the defendant, or by his submission to the custody of the officer, under authority of a warrant or otherwise. The officer must inform the defendant by what authority he acts, and must also show the warrant if required.
    Folks always equate arrest with getting cuffed or physically restrained.....sigh.

    Page seven of the draft: A cop can still disarm you under this proposed law. Will a cop disarm you, is a different question. There are cops now who do not disarm OCers and CCers.

    Nothing in this section shall be construed as prohibiting or otherwise restricting a health care professional from inquiring, documenting, or otherwise disclosing a patient's status as an owner of a firearm if such inquiry, documentation, or disclosure is necessitated or medically indicated by the health care professional's scope of practice and such inquiry, documentation, or disclosure does not violate any other state or federal law.
    When is the disclosure of firearm ownership medically necessary or medically indicated?!? Does this have anything to do with mental capacity? Whose idea was this? Slippery slope?

    See page five: There is no criminal penalty for a fed who violates this law. No state, county, or local cop is going to arrest a fed, the wronged citizen must use a civil proceeding. It reads as if a MO cop cannot stop a fed unless someone is willing to define what "duty of" means. Example, a fed can not be arrested for kicking in my door by mistake while enforcing one of the laws MO don't like. And I'll betcha a MO cop will not stop my door getting kicked in wrongly and ultimately unlawfully, by a fed, after this bill is signed into law.

    St. Charles County will have a county police force and not a true sheriff's office at some point in the future. How will that work out?

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    The below is provided as a citation.Folks always equate arrest with getting cuffed or physically restrained.....sigh.

    Page seven of the draft: A cop can still disarm you under this proposed law. Will a cop disarm you, is a different question. There are cops now who do not disarm OCers and CCers.

    When is the disclosure of firearm ownership medically necessary or medically indicated?!? Does this have anything to do with mental capacity? Whose idea was this? Slippery slope?

    See page five: There is no criminal penalty for a fed who violates this law. No state, county, or local cop is going to arrest a fed, the wronged citizen must use a civil proceeding. It reads as if a MO cop cannot stop a fed unless someone is willing to define what "duty of" means. Example, a fed can not be arrested for kicking in my door by mistake while enforcing one of the laws MO don't like. And I'll betcha a MO cop will not stop my door getting kicked in wrongly and ultimately unlawfully, by a fed, after this bill is signed into law.

    St. Charles County will have a county police force and not a true sheriff's office at some point in the future. How will that work out?
    Never read a summary. The devil is in the details. I am being to finally understand the hurdles that our brave few must face each year. Their dedication is amazing.

    Is this proposed bill the best we can get or is it too late to make changes? Changes are needed in my view. Or, do I need to go off on my own and work the items I think need addressing? Working at cross purposes is not very productive and i do not have the ear of many Jeff City denizens, just the ones I vote for.

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    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Break down

    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Never read a summary. The devil is in the details. I am being to finally understand the hurdles that our brave few must face each year. Their dedication is amazing.

    Is this proposed bill the best we can get or is it too late to make changes? Changes are needed in my view. Or, do I need to go off on my own and work the items I think need addressing? Working at cross purposes is not very productive and i do not have the ear of many Jeff City denizens, just the ones I vote for.
    The attachment (You'll have to figure out ow to open it) is a comprehensive opinion on the draft.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
    Certified NRA Range Safety Officer - RSO

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    Quote Originally Posted by mspgunner View Post
    This is what is to go to the Missouri Senate in 2014. It "IS" public information btw:
    It's what we will get if anything for OC.

    Summary of the bill: http://www.senate.mo.gov/13info/memb...ll_summary.pdf
    Draft of the bill: http://www.senate.mo.gov/13info/members/D32/gunbill.pdf
    Would you say that this bill treats the RKBA as a privilege granted by government, or an inalienable right?

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    One problem I have with this bill is the following section:

    571.070. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful possession of a firearm if such person knowingly has any firearm in his or her possession and:

    (3) Such person is illegally or unlawfully in the United States or has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa as defined in 8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26).

    2. Unlawful possession of a firearm is a class C felony. (page 21)

    Why do I have a problem with this? I'm glad you asked! My old boss immigrated to the United States from England. He became a U.S. citizen, and is a staunch defender of the Constitution. He's very active in the John Birch Society, and loves the 2nd Amendment. While he's a citizen, most of his extended family still live in England. When they come to the United States to visit, they often do all American activities, like shoot guns. Under this law, if one of his visiting relatives picked up a gun at the gun range, they would be committing a class C felony. Leave it to Missouri to make them feel right at home.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Hartman View Post
    One problem I have with this bill is the following section:

    571.070. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful possession of a firearm if such person knowingly has any firearm in his or her possession and:

    (3) Such person is illegally or unlawfully in the United States or has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa as defined in 8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26).

    2. Unlawful possession of a firearm is a class C felony. (page 21)

    Why do I have a problem with this? I'm glad you asked! My old boss immigrated to the United States from England. He became a U.S. citizen, and is a staunch defender of the Constitution. He's very active in the John Birch Society, and loves the 2nd Amendment. While he's a citizen, most of his extended family still live in England. When they come to the United States to visit, they often do all American activities, like shoot guns. Under this law, if one of his visiting relatives picked up a gun at the gun range, they would be committing a class C felony. Leave it to Missouri to make them feel right at home.
    I, and others, anxiously await the reply you get from your rep and what you get rolling.

    Thank you, and good luck sir.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Festus_Hagen View Post
    I, and others, anxiously await the reply you get from your rep and what you get rolling.

    Thank you, and good luck sir.
    Thankfully, Rep. Guernsey requested to be my Facebook friend awhile back. I messaged him basically the same thing I posted here. I'll let you know what he says.

    I'm also meeting with my sheriff,
    hopefully tomorrow, on the following provision in this bill:

    "When a federal agent or employee has belief that a sheriff or a member of the sheriff's staff has breached confidentiality regarding the issuance of warrants within the county, then the federal agent or employee may file a petition supported by probable cause with an associate circuit judge within the respective county requesting a waiver of the requirement to provide notice to the sheriff." (Page 11)

    Being that he's a supporter of CSPOA, I'm curious as to what he thinks of this federal end around to his authority as sheriff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Hartman View Post
    <snip>

    Under this law, if one of his visiting relatives picked up a gun at the gun range, they would be committing a class C felony. Leave it to Missouri to make them feel right at home.
    Very good observation. A response will be interesting to read. However, baby steps as they say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Hartman View Post
    Thankfully, Rep. Guernsey requested to be my Facebook friend awhile back. I messaged him basically the same thing I posted here. I'll let you know what he says.

    I'm also meeting with my sheriff,
    hopefully tomorrow, on the following provision in this bill:

    "When a federal agent or employee has belief that a sheriff or a member of the sheriff's staff has breached confidentiality regarding the issuance of warrants within the county, then the federal agent or employee may file a petition supported by probable cause with an associate circuit judge within the respective county requesting a waiver of the requirement to provide notice to the sheriff." (Page 11)

    Being that he's a supporter of CSPOA, I'm curious as to what he thinks of this federal end around to his authority as sheriff.
    Good to hear. Please do keep us, or at least me, posted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Hartman View Post
    One problem I have with this bill is the following section:

    571.070. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful possession of a firearm if such person knowingly has any firearm in his or her possession and:

    (3) Such person is illegally or unlawfully in the United States or has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa as defined in 8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26).

    2. Unlawful possession of a firearm is a class C felony. (page 21)

    Why do I have a problem with this? I'm glad you asked! My old boss immigrated to the United States from England. He became a U.S. citizen, and is a staunch defender of the Constitution. He's very active in the John Birch Society, and loves the 2nd Amendment. While he's a citizen, most of his extended family still live in England. When they come to the United States to visit, they often do all American activities, like shoot guns. Under this law, if one of his visiting relatives picked up a gun at the gun range, they would be committing a class C felony. Leave it to Missouri to make them feel right at home.
    There's no exception for range time? I'm assuming there is one for minors, like taking your kid to the range. In MA it basically reads that you need to be with a licensed person and under their supervision. So range time is covered, but wal mart isn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    There's no exception for range time? I'm assuming there is one for minors, like taking your kid to the range. In MA it basically reads that you need to be with a licensed person and under their supervision. So range time is covered, but wal mart isn't.
    Sadly, I've not found any exception for range time in the bill. This bill operates on the premise that the RKBA is a priveldge granted by government, and not an inalienable right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Hartman View Post
    One problem I have with this bill is the following section:

    571.070. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful possession of a firearm if such person knowingly has any firearm in his or her possession and:

    (3) Such person is illegally or unlawfully in the United States or has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa as defined in 8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26).

    2. Unlawful possession of a firearm is a class C felony. (page 21)

    Why do I have a problem with this? I'm glad you asked! My old boss immigrated to the United States from England. He became a U.S. citizen, and is a staunch defender of the Constitution. He's very active in the John Birch Society, and loves the 2nd Amendment. While he's a citizen, most of his extended family still live in England. When they come to the United States to visit, they often do all American activities, like shoot guns. Under this law, if one of his visiting relatives picked up a gun at the gun range, they would be committing a class C felony. Leave it to Missouri to make them feel right at home.
    You are free to try and change it. If not, no offense, then maybe they could visit in a state that doesn't prohibit foreign tourist from possessing a firearm.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Hartman View Post
    Sadly, I've not found any exception for range time in the bill. This bill operates on the premise that the RKBA is a priveldge granted by government, and not an inalienable right.
    Or is just limiting foreign tourists?
    "I can live for two weeks on a good compliment."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Festus_Hagen View Post
    Good to hear. Please do keep us, or at least me, posted.
    I just heard back from Rep. Guernsey. I'm not going to go into everything he said, but he did thank me for bringing these issues to light. He said that until January we are essentially in a holding pattern. He said, "I absolutely intend to be very involved with this legislation as its more important than ever to address these serious issues."

    It's not like this bill is set in stone. We have time to make some much needed changes.

    I didn't get the opportunity to meet with my sheriff this week, but I will be meeting with him next week on the other issue I brought up with this bill.

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    I met with my sheriff yesterday. I had him read the part of the bill regarding sheriffs. He was not happy, and said that he and some other constitutional sheriffs will be in Jeff City opposing that part of the bill. He doesn't like the idea of Feds having a loophole to undermine his authority.

    Later!

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    2nd Amendment Preservation Act Part II

    http://communities.washingtontimes.c...al-gun-laws-p/

    "JEFFERSON CITY, Mo., December 17, 2013 — In Missouri, legislation has been introduced to nullify every federal gun control measure on the books, “whether past, present or future.”

    The 2nd Amendment Preservation Act, introduced as Senate Bill 613 (SB613) for the 2014 legislative session by Sen. Brian Nieves, follows on the heels of a failed effort to do the same in 2013."

    shoulda scrolled down the forum further. sorry for the double post.
    Last edited by Griz; 12-22-2013 at 12:38 PM. Reason: we todd did

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    Does anyone know if there are any changes in the wording this year?

    note:
    Reading t he Bill in the senate; "The provisions of the section shall become effective either by August 28, 2017" that's a long ways away!
    Last edited by kylemoul; 12-27-2013 at 03:49 PM. Reason: Actually read stuff
    Constantly choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kylemoul View Post
    Does anyone know if there are any changes in the wording this year?

    note:
    Reading t he Bill in the senate; "The provisions of the section shall become effective either by August 28, 2017" that's a long ways away!
    the section that the aforementioned start date pertains to is 544.085 which reads as follows......

    http://www.senate.mo.gov/13info/members/D32/gunbill.pdf

    544.085. 1. For any warrant that is issued by a UnitedStates court that is to be served within the boundaries of the
    state of Missouri, the federal agent or employee responsible for
    serving the warrant shall, prior to such service, notify the
    sheriff of the county where the warrant is to be served.


    2. When a federal agent or employee has belief that a
    sheriff or a member of the sheriff's staff has breached
    confidentiality regarding the issuance of warrants within the
    county, then the federal agent or employee may file a petition
    supported by probable cause with an associate circuit judge
    within the respective county requesting a waiver of the
    requirement to provide notice to the sheriff.

    3. Subsection 1 of this section shall not apply when the
    warrant is issued in the interest of national security or
    defense.

    thankfully it is not the entire bill that is affected by this clause, at least the way i read it.


    EDIT to add clause in question......

    Section B. The enactment of section 544.085 shall become
    effective on August 28, 2017, or upon the revisor of statutes
    receiving notification that at least four other states have
    enacted into law substantially similar language as contained in
    section 544.085 of this act, whichever event occurs earlier.
    Last edited by Broondog; 12-27-2013 at 07:16 PM.
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    Aah ok. I didn't open my eyes and read.
    Constantly choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kylemoul View Post
    Does anyone know if there are any changes in the wording this year?
    A few, but mostly just little things to make passage easier. Like the thing Broondog pointed out, and a few things related to LEO's.
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    Did I clearly read if this bill (SB613) passes it does NOT become law until August 28, 2017? Again 2017 wth?

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