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Thread: Another "no guns allowed" sign removed.

  1. #1
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Another "no guns allowed" sign removed.

    I was just informed that the Citizens bank in Owingsville has removed their "no guns allowed" sign per my request. I have been working on getting that sign removed for several months now. I know this may not seem like a big deal to most, but this is the first private business that I have convinced to remove such signs. Either my "sales pitch" is getting better or they just wanted me to shut up. I'll take either.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Did'ja ever wonder why those places don't put up a "No Bank Robbery Allowed" sign?

  3. #3
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    Did'ja ever wonder why those places don't put up a "No Bank Robbery Allowed" sign?
    I did make a similar statement to them when I asked for them to remove the sign.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    You're on a roll. That's two this week. Good job and since there was no law backing you up on this one, there should be no question of who or what did this! You did it!
    I have another bank and McDonalds to work on now (as far as Owingsville is concerned). Tried McDonalds a while back with no luck. But I'll try again. Going to try the other bank within the next couple of days. Only 2 "no guns allowed" signs left in town. I'm due for back surgery in the next week or so, so that will slow me down a little, but it's amazing what you can accomplish over the phone.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  5. #5
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    I met with the Peoples Bank in Owingsville last week to encourage them to remove their "no guns allowed" sign. I first had to speak with the manager,who sent me to speak to the Asst. Vice President,who then told me that I would have to call the CEO. So I called the CEO and he informed me that he agreed with me and that he is very much a gun guy, BUT, the board of directors are the ones that required that such signs be posted and that he was doubtful that they would reconsider. But he assured me that he would pass my argument off to them all the same.

    I took this as a way to shut me up. This morning I received a call from a weird number. (When I say weird number, I mean the number was literally 531-0. No idea what that's all about) When I answered, it was the CEO himself. He called and said that he passed all the information that he and I had discussed onto the board of directors. He said the board considered my arguments and had decided to remove all "no guns allowed" sign from all of their banks. This includes the Owingsville, Salt Lick, Flemingsburg and Maysville locations. They also have branch banks in a few of these location that total 9 banks altogether. He actually thanked me a couple of times and said that the board thanked for pointing out the harm that these signs can bring.

    I honestly was only focused on getting the sign removed at the Owingsville location, so I had to jump for joy when I learned that several of these signs would be coming down in several different location. 2 locations not even being in my county. It feels good when I see one of these signs come down. It feels great to see 9 come down.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Who Da Man? Seriously, awesome job. Keep up the good work. I wish I had those people skills but alas I have no tact. People like you and others hear are the reason I joined this forum keep it up. I would love to see constitutional carry passed in KY.

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rs3604 View Post
    Who Da Man? Seriously, awesome job. Keep up the good work. I wish I had those people skills but alas I have no tact. People like you and others hear are the reason I joined this forum keep it up. I would love to see constitutional carry passed in KY.
    Brother, don't let my post fool you. I am nowhere near the self assured, confident man that you may think that I am. In fact, when I get into these meetings I become quite nervous. My voice shakes and I can only remember 10 of the 1000 points that I wished to make. But I seem to keep getting better at this the more I do it. Somehow, by the grace of God I manage to say just enough right things to make a change. Once again, I am usually scared to death for some reason. But I was always told things like "speak your mind ever if your voice trembles", "Stand for what's right, even if you stand alone" and "being brave doesn't mean not being scared, it means being scared and charging ahead anyhow." If I can do it, anyone can do it.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    You are doing some really great work and lots of it. If we had just 10 people in the state that did what you do, all of our gun problems would be solved soon. All it takes is the will to do it and a few minutes of your time. Most gun owners are too unsure of themselves, too willing to "let someone else do it" and too afraid of a "No" answer to even attempt this kind of work. Changing the minds of private property owners/managers is the hardest type of problem since you don't have the law on your side, only your powers of persuasion.
    Coming from probably the most respected guns rights advocate in the Commonwealth of Kentucky, that means a lot to me. But as you say, when you rely on "others to do it", it probably won't get done. So I get out and do it. I only wish that I could do more. So many people on this forum has given me the education needed to make a difference, even if a small difference, and I thank each and every one of them for it. In all fairness I have been off of work for 6 weeks recovering from back surgery, so maybe I have had a little more extra time than others.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  9. #9
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    I'd say that most can do it, if they would just try. As I said in my last post, "All it takes is the will to do it and a few minutes of your time."
    +1.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Regular Member 2OLD2W8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    He said the board considered my arguments and had decided to remove all "no guns allowed" sign from all of their banks.

    Bravo Sir!!!!!!


    Would you mind sharing some of your key arguments with like minded fellow pro gun activists. You never know, this information could become the starting point for a (pro gun rights) activist playbook.......

    It's always interesting to watch the facial contortions of anti gun people as they process and digest our pro gun arguments and positions......
    “We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” Ayn Rand

    "free people ought...to be armed." In so doing we grasp the larger lesson that the ability to defend ourselves is part and parcel to our freedom. George Washington , January 7, 1790

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2OLD2W8 View Post
    Bravo Sir!!!!!!


    Would you mind sharing some of your key arguments with like minded fellow pro gun activists. You never know, this information could become the starting point for a (pro gun rights) activist playbook.......

    It's always interesting to watch the facial contortions of anti gun people as they process and digest our pro gun arguments and positions......
    I can share my approach if you like. The first thing I make sure of is that I'm presentable. I'm not saying wear a $5000.00 Italian suit, but going in with greasy hands and a dirty shirt will probably make you lose a lot of credibility points from the very start, especially if you're going into a professional environment . Of course this is just IMO and I have nothing to back that statement up. But for the most part your appearance speaks volumes of you.

    If I know that I will need to talk to a person that has a busy schedule I will try to arrange a meeting with them. I usually ask for at least 30 minutes of their time. This way it is more likely that I will have their undivided attention. Of course some people that are in an authoritative position don't do "scheduled meetings." For these folks try to pick a time when you feel they will be less busy and will have time to actually listen to your concerns. Stopping in a Burger King to speak to the manager during the lunch time rush hour probably isn't the best time. In fact, he/she will probably instantly view you as an inconvenience considering that this is their busiest time of day and you are tying them up on other, non-paying business. And that's not the way that you want to be viewed.

    It doesn't matter what type of place that you are going to or if you have the force of law to back you or not, always go in as a "friend that want's to help." I don't know what state you call home, but here in KY. we have a preemption law that forbids local Governments from doing things such as placing "no guns allowed" signs on their buildings. When I go into these types of situations I know that the sign will have to be removed, but I always start out as "I noticed your NGA sign and I wanted to bring something to your attention." At this point I hand them a copy of KRS 65.870 and give a brief explanation of what it means. Then I usually say something to the effect of "I know that several cities and counties were recently sued because of these signs. Luckily they somehow missed you but you may not be so lucky next time and I don't want to see the city getting sued." By this point whoever I'm talking to most more than likely is viewing me as a pretty damn good guy because I'm here to "save" them from trouble.

    You may encounter an angry politician that has the "don't give a damn what no law says" attitude. Regardless if you are having a pleasant encounter or if you're being rudely blown off, never try to strong arm or show force when dealing with these situations. People don't like to be forced to do something and you projecting that attitude will only make it worse. Remain as that "friend" the whole time. Even those that stonewall KRS 65.870 usually concede once their attorney tells them that they had better comply or else.

    But for the sake of argument let's say that your meeting with Mr. Mayor over the posted signs on city hall is going smooth. After you have helped him to understand the gist of what the law says, this is a good time to start an attempt to educate why these signs are bad. Think of this as doing a little "damage control." If you simply hand him a stack of papers that say that he is required to do this or do that, the signs will come down, but when someone ask where the sign went it will be a response of "some damn gun nut came in here with a copy of state laws and made us remove them." Not at all what we want. Keep in mind that when you are doing this type of work that you are representing each and every law abiding gun owner and we want to leave on a positive note if possible.

    Recently I was talking to a supervisor of a water district that had a sign posted. One of the questions that I asked was what they hoped to achieve by posting such signs? After a few moments of a lost look on his face he said "well, it keeps people from bringing guns in here." I simply said "but does it really?" He agreed that no, it didn't. Never put words in their mouth by saying things such as "now I know that deep down you know that these signs don't really work, don't ya?", but rather ask them questions that forces them to begin their own thought process. Let them own their own thoughts. Don't try to force your way of thinking onto them, but rather give them the chance to come around to your way of thinking.

    I simply pointed out that if for any reason a person wanted to walk into his building and start shooting that a plastic sign will not stop them. Actually, I say this to each and every person I talk to. So far no one had disagreed with me. In fact, I believe that once I put it like that, they may even feel a bit foolish for posting the sign in the first place. Not really my intent but hey,if it works. I always point out that a person that is willing to violate a law(s) and maybe even commit murder will have no problem violating a company rule. So far everyone has agreed with me on that as well.

    Anti-gun politicians never let a good tragedy go to waste. I take a page from their play book and do the same thing. When I was talking to the this particular bank I took with me a print out from the internet of a story on James Holmes, the CO. movie theater shooter. The article talked about why they felt he picked the particular movie theater that he did. There were movie theaters that were larger with more people in them that night and that were way closer to his home. But all of those theaters allowed their customers to be armed. The theater that he shot up didn't allow its customers to be armed. As a result many of its customers died that night.

    It's not hard to find these types of stories on the internet to use to your advantage. But if you can't find a story that you feel will appeal to whoever you are talking to, don't make some foolish statement such as "I'm telling ya, if those signs don't come down I can see everyone in here getting shot and killed one day." Simply put, don't be a weirdo or try to use some unfounded scare tactic. To much logical information out there to play such games. Take with you as much useful information as you can.

    I have a printed out paper that I give to private business of why it's a good business practice to allow their customers to be armed. Some folks give out the "no gun, no money" cards. To me these are a very lazy and an ineffective way to support the cause. For one they are a threat. A threat not to spend money. People don't respond well to threats, remember? Honestly, the manager of Red Lobster couldn't care less if you ever eat there again or not. They will survive just fine without you. Plus, they view your message as if YOU can't wear YOUR gun then YOU won't ever be back. You passing off this card only makes it about YOU in their eyes and not about the well being of all of their customers. You completely fail to properly educate or at least attempt to educate them why these sign are dangerous. It it makes you feel good to do so anyhow, knock yourself out. Me on the other hand, I'm against "feel good" actions. After all, that's where anti-gun laws come from.

    I have never gotten a sign removed by 1 simple visit. I have always had to do follow up visits. So be prepared to spend some time working toward your goal. If I can clearly see that I'm not going to get these signs removed by a 3rd visit, I write it off as I did my best. For me the Owingsville McDonalds is my "I did my best" because neither for love nor money can I convince them to remove their sign. If this McDonalds ever changes ownership, I'll try again. But you have to know when to back off for a few. Be persistence but don't get to the point that you are trespassed from the property.

    Each and every time I talk to people about removing these signs I ALWAYS get asked this question....."who are you with?" They always have a surprised look on their face when I say "no one, I'm just an ordinary guy that recognizes the dangers of these signs." I honestly believe that once they know that they are talking to a "regular Joe" they seem to relax a little and seem to be more willing to reach a solution to my concerns. I believe this plays to my advantage because they no longer see an authoritative figure from a large establishment, but rather just a plain guy. Even the CEO's that I talk to that are probably making 250K a year most more than likely view themselves as an "ordinary guy." I believe in their minds the playing field has been leveled if that makes any sense.

    Last but not least. Don't get discouraged if the first few places you try doesn't reconsider and remove their signs. You can't win them all. But to me if you talk to 50 different places over the course of one year, and you only manage to get 1 place to remove these signs....time well spend and a clear victory.
    Last edited by self preservation; 12-15-2013 at 02:17 PM.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  12. #12
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    Absolute genius. A better instruction manual could not be written. Everyone should copy this to their computer for reference in the future and then, go do it.
    Thank you, sir. I had to go back and add a little bit more to the section about me talking to the water district supervisor. I felt that I didn't explain why I ask these questions in the manner that I do. But other than that I feel that I have shared all of my "secrets." I hope others will share theirs as well. As you said in an earlier post, life does seem to get in the way at times and make its difficult to find the time to do this type of work. Honestly, if not for my job allowing me to have days off during the week, I doubt I would ever have the time to get much done myself.

    Thank you for your well wishes for my recovery. Much appreciated.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  13. #13
    Regular Member 2OLD2W8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    I can share my approach if you like. The first thing I make sure of is that I'm presentable. I'm not saying wear a $5000.00 Italian suit, but going in with greasy hands and a dirty shirt will probably make you lose a lot of credibility points from the very start, especially if you're going into a professional environment . Of course this is just IMO and I have nothing to back that statement up. But for the most part your appearance speaks volumes of you.

    If I know that I will need to talk to a person that has a busy schedule I will try to arrange a meeting with them. I usually ask for at least 30 minutes of their time. This way it is more likely that I will have their undivided attention. Of course some people that are in an authoritative position don't do "scheduled meetings." For these folks try to pick a time when you feel they will be less busy and will have time to actually listen to your concerns. Stopping in a Burger King to speak to the manager during the lunch time rush hour probably isn't the best time. In fact, he/she will probably instantly view you as an inconvenience considering that this is their busiest time of day and you are tying them up on other, non-paying business. And that's not the way that you want to be viewed.

    It doesn't matter what type of place that you are going to or if you have the force of law to back you or not, always go in as a "friend that want's to help." I don't know what state you call home, but here in KY. we have a preemption law that forbids local Governments from doing things such as placing "no guns allowed" signs on their buildings. When I go into these types of situations I know that the sign will have to be removed, but I always start out as "I noticed your NGA sign and I wanted to bring something to your attention." At this point I hand them a copy of KRS 65.870 and give a brief explanation of what it means. Then I usually say something to the effect of "I know that several cities and counties were recently sued because of these signs. Luckily they somehow missed you but you may not be so lucky next time and I don't want to see the city getting sued." By this point whoever I'm talking to most more than likely is viewing me as a pretty damn good guy because I'm here to "save" them from trouble.

    You may encounter an angry politician that has the "don't give a damn what no law says" attitude. Regardless if you are having a pleasant encounter or if you're being rudely blown off, never try to strong arm or show force when dealing with these situations. People don't like to be forced to do something and you projecting that attitude will only make it worse. Remain as that "friend" the whole time. Even those that stonewall KRS 65.870 usually concede once their attorney tells them that they had better comply or else.

    But for the sake of argument let's say that your meeting with Mr. Mayor over the posted signs on city hall is going smooth. After you have helped him to understand the gist of what the law says, this is a good time to start an attempt to educate why these signs are bad. Think of this as doing a little "damage control." If you simply hand him a stack of papers that say that he is required to do this or do that, the signs will come down, but when someone ask where the sign went it will be a response of "some damn gun nut came in here with a copy of state laws and made us remove them." Not at all what we want. Keep in mind that when you are doing this type of work that you are representing each and every law abiding gun owner and we want to leave on a positive note if possible.

    Recently I was talking to a supervisor of a water district that had a sign posted. One of the questions that I asked was what they hoped to achieve by posting such signs? After a few moments of a lost look on his face he said "well, it keeps people from bringing guns in here." I simply said "but does it really?" He agreed that no, it didn't.

    I simply pointed out that if for any reason a person wanted to walk into his building and start shooting that a plastic sign will not stop them. Actually, I say this to each and every person I talk to. So far no one had disagreed with me. In fact, I believe that once I put it like that, they may even feel a bit foolish for posting the sign in the first place. Not really my intent but hey,if it works. I always point out that a person that is willing to violate a law(s) and maybe even commit murder will have no problem violating a company rule. So far everyone has agreed with me on that as well.

    Anti-gun politicians never let a good tragedy go to waste. I take a page from their play book and do the same thing. When I was talking to the this particular bank I took with me a print out from the internet of a story on James Holmes, the CO. movie theater shooter. The article talked about why they felt he picked the particular movie theater that he did. There were movie theaters that were larger with more people in them that night and that were way closer to his home. But all of those theaters allowed their customers to be armed. The theater that he shot up didn't allow its customers to be armed. As a result many of its customers died that night.

    It's not hard to find these types of stories on the internet to use to your advantage. But if you can't find a story that you feel will appeal to whoever you are talking to, don't make some foolish statement such as "I'm telling ya, if those signs don't come down I can see everyone in here getting shot and killed one day." Simply put, don't be a weirdo or try to use some unfounded scare tactic. To much logical information out there to play such games. Take with you as much useful information as you can.

    I have a printed out paper that I give to private business of why it's a good business practice to allow their customers to be armed. Some folks give out the "no gun, no money" cards. To me these are a very lazy and an ineffective way to support the cause. For one they are a threat. A threat not to spend money. People don't respond well to threats, remember? Honestly, the manager of Red Lobster couldn't care less if you ever eat there again or not. They will survive just fine without you. Plus, they view your message as if YOU can't wear YOUR gun then YOU won't ever be back. You passing off this card only makes it about YOU in their eyes and not about the well being of all of their customers. You completely fail to properly educate or at least attempt to educate them why these sign are dangerous. It it makes you feel good to do so anyhow, knock yourself out. Me on the other hand, I'm against "feel good" actions. After all, that's where anti-gun laws come from.

    I have never gotten a sign removed by 1 simple visit. I have always had to do follow up visits. So be prepared to spend some time working toward your goal. If I can clearly see that I'm not going to get these signs removed by a 3rd visit, I write it off as I did my best. For me the Owingsville McDonalds is my "I did my best" because neither for love nor money can I convince them to remove their sign. If this McDonalds ever changes ownership, I'll try again. But you have to know when to back off for a few. Be persistence but don't get to the point that you are trespassed from the property.

    Each and every time I talk to people about removing these signs I ALWAYS get asked this question....."who are you with?" They always have a surprised look on their face when I say "no one, I'm just an ordinary guy that recognizes the dangers of these signs." I honestly believe that once they know that they are talking to a "regular Joe" they seem to relax a little and seem to be more willing to reach a solution to my concerns. I believe this plays to my advantage because they no longer see an authoritative figure from a large establishment, but rather just a plain guy. Even the CEO's that I talk to that are probably making 250K a year most more than likely view themselves as an "ordinary guy." I believe in their minds the playing field has been leveled if that makes any sense.

    Last but not least. Don't get discouraged if the first few places you try doesn't reconsider and remove their signs. You can't win them all. But to me if you talk to 50 different places over the course of one year, and you only manage to get 1 place to remove these signs....time well spend and a clear victory.

    Thank you for sharing, my methods are quite similar and are still being tweaked after every encounter, I can also relate to the nervousness in the beginning.....


    My main objective is to wake up the thought process of the individual, to methodically breach the topic in a non threatening manner and to shed some light on the specific issue at hand, covertly trying to change their mindset without being perceived as an enemy or a threat to their beliefs..........My intent is to pull never to push!

    The majority of my encounters reveal few if any people are open to the frankness necessary for a meaningful discussion, most are very rigid in their demeanor and are extremely uncomfortable discussing contentious issues with strangers let alone the media driven divisiveness of any firearms related issue when meeting each other for the first time. Most will not let a stranger delve into their stable static mindset, they will resist and not let you in, even for a brief visit (LOL). For doing so might shake the very foundation and core that creates their content......Sure, they will be cordial and polite and appear to be interested but that impervious wall will remain standing. They are not secure enough in their beliefs so they reject any contrary discussion or thought as a challenge to their position and simply clam up or become unsettled.

    I do not possess any psychology training. The meeting is fluid and with the short time allotted, I rely on my gut instincts and their body language as to whether they are receptive or not... If I sense any obstacles I will change tactics, sometimes I'm successful, sometimes not so much. Oh well, like you said....
    We tried..................

    IMO, As a society we are regressing to an adolescent level of discord. People are losing the ability to remain unoffended while having the frank and necessary conversations and debates needed to ensure our freedoms and rights. In today's society it's much easier to just pick a side, any side of any issue and make the claim of social participation and call it a day....I call it (kid logic), They don't need to defend it....That's just how they feel.....It is much easier to ignore the facts and knowledge one must possess and use to articulate and defend a contrary position.

    Individual gun rights advocates will on occasion win some battles.....I have been successful a few times myself.... we have a very daunting challenging task.... Anyone that undertakes this endeavor is to be commended!!!!

    I will continue to fight, being a free American has afforded me many opportunities, my heirs deserve no less..

    Unalienable rights are mandatory for me and mine !!!

    P.S. I call the BLUE state of Florida home now... been here for 45 years.......excluding military stints. We now have preemption also. Don't know if Kentucky's law has the same some teeth as ours. Preemption has helped cut down on the abuse in Florida. Politicians here can be held personally liable for transgressions and fined accordingly.

    All of my kin on both sides are Kentuckians and still reside there, with a few scattered in Indiana.
    “We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” Ayn Rand

    "free people ought...to be armed." In so doing we grasp the larger lesson that the ability to defend ourselves is part and parcel to our freedom. George Washington , January 7, 1790

  14. #14
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2OLD2W8 View Post

    P.S. I call the BLUE state of Florida home now... been here for 45 years.......excluding military stints. We now have preemption also. Don't know if Kentucky's law has the same some teeth as ours. Preemption has helped cut down on the abuse in Florida. Politicians here can be held personally liable for transgressions and fined accordingly.
    For years Kentucky had a pretty weak preemption law. It was violated like crazy without much that we could do about it. Luckily, our general assembly did add teeth to it last year. It now includes several more governmental entities that it did not include before, as well as holding those who violate this law open for civil liabilities as well as possible criminal charges. Needless to say these violations are becoming more and more scarce.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  15. #15
    Regular Member 2OLD2W8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    For years Kentucky had a pretty weak preemption law. It was violated like crazy without much that we could do about it. Luckily, our general assembly did add teeth to it last year. It now includes several more governmental entities that it did not include before, as well as holding those who violate this law open for civil liabilities as well as possible criminal charges. Needless to say these violations are becoming more and more scarce.


    This is the part of our statute that has the teeth.......

    F.S. 790.33 Field of regulation of firearms and ammunition preempted.—

    (3) PROHIBITIONS; PENALTIES.—

    (c) If the court determines that a violation was knowing and willful, the court shall assess a civil fine of up to $5,000 against the elected or appointed local government official or officials or administrative agency head under whose jurisdiction the violation occurred.

    (e) A knowing and willful violation of any provision of this section by a person acting in an official capacity for any entity enacting or causing to be enforced a local ordinance or administrative rule or regulation prohibited under paragraph (a) or otherwise under color of law shall be cause for termination of employment or contract or removal from office by the Governor.
    Last edited by 2OLD2W8; 12-16-2013 at 02:40 PM.
    “We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” Ayn Rand

    "free people ought...to be armed." In so doing we grasp the larger lesson that the ability to defend ourselves is part and parcel to our freedom. George Washington , January 7, 1790

  16. #16
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2OLD2W8 View Post
    This is the part of our statute that has the teeth.......

    F.S. 790.33 Field of regulation of firearms and ammunition preempted.—

    (3) PROHIBITIONS; PENALTIES.—

    (c) If the court determines that a violation was knowing and willful, the court shall assess a civil fine of up to $5,000 against the elected or appointed local government official or officials or administrative agency head under whose jurisdiction the violation occurred.

    (e) A knowing and willful violation of any provision of this section by a person acting in an official capacity for any entity enacting or causing to be enforced a local ordinance or administrative rule or regulation prohibited under paragraph (a) or otherwise under color of law shall be cause for termination of employment or contract or removal from office by the Governor.
    Here is ours....http://www.lrc.ky.gov/Statutes/statute.aspx?id=40556
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  17. #17
    Regular Member 2OLD2W8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    Yes, and Ky.'s new law was based on that Fl statute. The Ky. statute does not have penalties as severe as the original Fl statue. I didn't like that at first, but have come to realize that it really doesn't matter as long as the penalty is sever enough to bring compliance. That has been the case in Ky. So far, no one has violated to the point of being charged with any crime. I don't think that has been necessary in Fl. either. Several times I have seen a sudden change in attitude with local officials when you mention the one year jail term that they may receive if they refuse to comply. As a matter of fact, no local government entity has wanted to even go to trail on a civil lawsuit. All of them have been settled out of court. There are a couple of outstanding issues, but none of them are serious enough to result in criminal charges of any kind.

    We have had a few over zealous, power hungry, narcissistic politicians........they were politely shown the error of there ways.... Yes, humble pie is back on the menu!!!!!!

    Here in Florida, we are slowly winning back our gun rights. Now that the political pendulum has swung back into the legally armed citizens corner, I hope the momentum continues toward legal and politically honest constitutional open carry.
    “We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” Ayn Rand

    "free people ought...to be armed." In so doing we grasp the larger lesson that the ability to defend ourselves is part and parcel to our freedom. George Washington , January 7, 1790

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