I was arrested.

SteveM said:

Ok, based on what I read you did violate city ordinance because case law says that the Portland ordinance applies inside of your car when on public roads. If it were me I'd thank my lucky stars and not do it again.

However, I do feel that the ordinance and all like it violate our civil rights. In fact, I am leaving now to go ask the Beaverton City Council to repeal our open carry ban.

Click to expand...

Steve, oregon state firearm laws do not give portland the ability to change the definition of "loaded" to include rounds in a detached mag. Portland can only regulate who may carry a loaded pistol (ccw permit holders)

This city ordinance flies in the face of state preemption would render this law null.

MattinWA said:

So I was right, the charge was dropped? Figures...

Click to expand...

Yes they were dropped. I almost lost my new job and now owe almost $400 in fees.

MattinWA said:

Steve, oregon state firearm laws do not give portland the ability to change the definition of "loaded" to include rounds in a detached mag. Portland can only regulate who may carry a loaded pistol (ccw permit holders)

This city ordinance flies in the face of state preemption would render this law null.

Click to expand...

So do you think that is why they dropped the loaded mag charge? And if it is null how can they possibly enforce it? Should I just keep a loaded mag out of Portland to avoid the trouble?

BrandonW said:

I know I violated the loaded magazine ban. It is a bunch of BS that needs to be changed but it was an accident. Not happening again. I plan on staying out of PDX. But a rather important deatil I left out was the fact that I got the Unlawful Possession of a Firearm charge for carrying it how I was. It was openly carried in a belt holster but obviously not "immediately visible due to the officer being on the drivers side looking in and my weapon on the right side. He said that even though it was in a belt holster, since I was in a vehicle it was concealed. As far as I've read "openly carried in a belt holster" is not considered concealed. But there doesn't seem to be a specific definition of concealed, so is this just a legal gray area?

Click to expand...

Section three of unlawful possession says:

Firearms carried openly in belt holsters are not concealed within the meaning of this section.

This section does cover unlawful car carry as well.

So how could you have gotten this charge in your car?
http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/166.250

MattinWA said:

Section three of unlawful possession says:

Firearms carried openly in belt holsters are not concealed within the meaning of this section.

This section does cover unlawful car carry as well.

So how could you have gotten this charge in your car?
http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/166.250

Click to expand...

I have no idea. That's the section I referenced to them. They said I was wrong and couldn't find what I was talking about.

BrandonW said:

I have no idea. That's the section I referenced to them. They said I was wrong and couldn't find what I was talking about.

Click to expand...

Yet the charge was dropped... It is not uncommon for an officer to not know all the firearms laws, or like the case here, know all the exemptions to the limitations on firearm carry.

I believe they still keep the unlawful magazine law around, so as to intimidate less informed lawful gun owners/carriers, possibly hoping u will just roll over and plead guilty, and feed the revenue machine. Has anyone ever heard of a guilty verdict from this loaded vs unloaded law?

What is your $400 fines for? Just the questionable reckless driving, I would surmise? was your car also impounded?

Interestingly enough, the only real places in Oregon where I would have really felt alot better with a loaded pistol were all in Portland.

MattinWA said:

Yet the charge was dropped... It is not uncommon for an officer to not know all the firearms laws, or like the case here, know all the exemptions to the limitations on firearm carry.

I believe they still keep the unlawful magazine law around, so as to intimidate less informed lawful gun owners/carriers, possibly hoping u will just roll over and plead guilty, and feed the revenue machine. Has anyone ever heard of a guilty verdict from this loaded vs unloaded law?

What is your $400 fines for? Just the questionable reckless driving, I would surmise? was your car also impounded?

Interestingly enough, the only real places in Oregon where I would have really felt alot better with a loaded pistol were all in Portland.

Click to expand...

It was a small amount of my bail payment left to pay. 15% of the 10% required to get me out, and the rest was the tow fee.. No they dropped all charges. I wasn't driving wrecklessly, my tires spun out on a wet incline. I know that many officers don't know certain gun laws and exemptions which is very unfortunate. It's a very serious thing to not be informed on. My car was towed, as a hazard, because I couldn't call my parents who live 5 minutes away, and the officer couldn't move the car 50 feet into the parking lot lol. They have to make their money.

BrandonW said:

It was a small amount of my bail payment left to pay. 15% of the 10% required to get me out, and the rest was the tow fee.. No they dropped all charges. I wasn't driving wrecklessly, my tires spun out on a wet incline. I know that many officers don't know certain gun laws and exemptions which is very unfortunate. It's a very serious thing to not be informed on. My car was towed, as a hazard, because I couldn't call my parents who live 5 minutes away, and the officer couldn't move the car 50 feet into the parking lot lol. They have to make their money.

Click to expand...

This would make me irate! I would try to recoupe all these funds. You have your work cut out for you. I would start by getting a copy of all paperwork that was generated during your stop, dash cam video evidence, radio transcrips ect, before it is deleated. File for freedom of information act to retrieve these items.

An uninformed officer enforcing an obviously unenforceable law/not knowing open carry laws, should not mean that you have to flip the bill for his ignorance!!!

A small claims court may perfect for the amount of money you were put out, and you wouldn't have to spring for a lawyer...

MattinWA said:

This would make me irate! I would try to recoupe all these funds. You have your work cut out for you. I would start by getting a copy of all paperwork that was generated during your stop, dash cam video evidence, radio transcrips ect, before it is deleated. File for freedom of information act to retrieve these items.

An uninformed officer enforcing an obviously unenforceable law/not knowing open carry laws, should not mean that you have to flip the bill for his ignorance!!!

A small claims court may perfect for the amount of money you were put out, and you wouldn't have to spring for a lawyer...

Click to expand...

I definitely agree. How do I go about filing for all that?

BrandonW said:

I definitely agree. How do I go about filing for all that?

Click to expand...

There generally isn't a form or specific process to follow. Just title the paper as FOIA request. Here is an example of one from a few days ago, from here in Washington, for a problem a forum member had with his college:

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...lover-Park-Tech-called-the-police-on-me-today!
(scroll down a bit)

This should give you a good guide line. I would email, send certified mail, and hand deliver. Going into the PD might have a form. It wouldn't hurt to file a complaint against the officer as well. While Internal affairs may clear him of wrong doing, it makes a paper trail that will stay on his record, which could help future OCers.

Ps I found a site
https://www.rocketlawyer.com/secure/interview/questions.aspx?document=31728714&utm_source=103&v=3#q1

If you enter your states name, it has a nice template to go from.

I'm not sure who you would subpoena for small claims court (maybe the city or PD), but the paperwork is fairly simple and available at the local court house. You can even get the sheriffs dept to serve the papers!!! (I had to do this once for damage from a car accident)

I think you should sue for damages and injunctive relief per 42 USC 1983 relating to your unlawful arrest for possessing ammunition and magazines in violation of an invalid ordinance. An attorney who deals with civil rights violations and will take your case on a contingency basis is what you are after. You can google cases which have settled favorably with awards to Plaintiffs - generally, $5,000 to $26,000 settlements can be found on line - in your case - a full blown arrest and not just unlawful search and seizure, seems to make your facts favorable for such a lawsuit.

Mike said:

I think you should sue for damages and injunctive relief per 42 USC 1983 relating to your unlawful arrest for possessing ammunition and magazines in violation of an invalid ordinance. An attorney who deals with civil rights violations and will take your case on a contingency basis is what you are after. You can google cases which have settled favorably with awards to Plaintiffs - generally, $5,000 to $26,000 settlements can be found on line - in your case - a full blown arrest and not just unlawful search and seizure, seems to make your facts favorable for such a lawsuit.

Click to expand...

Where would I find an attorney that would do that? I'm not experienced in all of this, but it's really bothering me that they screwed up and now I'm paying for it.

BrandonW said:

Where would I find an attorney that would do that? I'm not experienced in all of this, but it's really bothering me that they screwed up and now I'm paying for it.

Click to expand...

Suggest that you contact these and ask for their suggestions:

http://www.oregonfirearms.org/who-we-are

http://www.gunlawcommunity.com/

http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/attorney.htm

And keep us updated!
as your attorney permits

UPDATE: I'm still waiting for a release for my firearm and other property back. It seems like the delivering officer is trying to make it as hard as he possibly can on me.

BrandonW said:

they were just trying to scare me and really grilled me about just WHY I felt I needed to carry a gun.

Click to expand...

For the same reason you feel you need to meeet friends for dinner, or go to church, or vote:
it's a Constitutionally-protected civil right. Rights need no reason.
Or you could say "for much the same reason you have one, officer: to go to bed tonight in the same condition as I woke up".

I was nervous. They have definitely scared me

Click to expand...

That's called a chilling effect, and it's illegal.
By their bullying they have scared people into not exercising their rights.

It was openly carried in a belt holster but obviously not "immediately visible" due to the officer being on the drivers side looking in and my weapon on the right side.

Click to expand...

That doesn't mean it's concealed, it means that the laws of physics are operating normally.
I wouldn't expect to be able to see through a person if s/he were standing in the park, and I don't expect to be able to see through a person if s/he is sitting in a car.
A holster on the other side of your body is not concealed just because someone can't see through your body (or the car window, or the car seat, etc.).

He said that even though it was in a belt holster, since I was in a vehicle it was concealed.

Click to expand...

In WI we have an old ruling from a judge saying that, but it's been superceded by our Constitutional amendment protecting RKBA, our ccl law, and a change in the transport statute saying that possessing a loaded unencased pistol in a car is legal.

The legislators just didn't think LEO & DAs would be so stubborn & stupid as to keep trying to charge people under the old law with all those changes, so they didn't explicitly say that a pistol openly carried in a car is not concealed.

BrandonW said:

UPDATE: I'm still waiting for a release for my firearm and other property back.
It seems like the delivering officer is trying to make it as hard as he possibly can on me.

Click to expand...

How long has it been since the charges were dropped?
I'd give them maybe a week, then start calling at least every day, maybe twice a day.
Or go to your county court & file a petition to get a judge to order them to return your property immediately.
Have them bring it to court & hand it over. Might need a bailiff to carry it outside so you won't be arrested for possessing a firearm in a courthouse.

So sayeth ^ ^ ^ the lady who has been there, done that, and won.

<3 to you brother. I am soaked...I love rain...and I hope you decide to com move to Albany...its a happy little town...

MKEgal said:

How long has it been since the charges were dropped?
I'd give them maybe a week, then start calling at least every day, maybe twice a day.
Or go to your county court & file a petition to get a judge to order them to return your property immediately.
Have them bring it to court & hand it over. Might need a bailiff to carry it outside so you won't be arrested for possessing a firearm in a courthouse.

Click to expand...

Well they have had a release for my weapon for two and a half weeks now, but they're telling me that it is at the state crime lab and they are STILL waiting for it to come back. I don't know why it would be there, the charges were dropped 11 hours after i was arrested. I'm so infuriated with the city government right now. I definitely feel like they're lying to me, or not telling me the whole truth. So how would i go about getting that petition?