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Thread: Decocker or not

  1. #1
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Decocker or not

    I am too lazy to research this topic if it has been discussed on OCDO.

    Anyway, I have a XD 40 and a Ruger P90. The P90 has a decocker and I have never owned a pistol with this feature. Honestly, I was a little overwhelmed by the decocking action.

    One in the chamber requires me to pull the hammer back for SA or remain DA on the trigger pull. The XD 40 is not so persnickety. I will need to practice, but it seems that a DA engagement is not likely a issue given the expected range to target in the worst case scenario. But, DA will affect shot placement due to the extra effort to pull the trigger. Should I worry or just practice and get over it. Thoughts?

    Side question, DA or SA when condition 0/1 (depending on the pistol type).

  2. #2
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    My carry is a P97DC (Decock only). It's DA/SA.

    I will admit it's a bit funky at first to get used to, but if you practice with it it gets easy-to-use real quick.

    The first couple of months I had it, I was nervous as heck using the DC. I would only rack the slide at the firing line, and DC with it pointed downrange.

    However, after I proved to myself that it was GTG, it turned into my EDC.

    Using the DC is now automatic after chambering a round.

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Yes, the DA first trigger pull makes a difference. There is no getting around it. But yes, it also doesn't matter much in MOST self-defense encounters that will happen at sufficiently close range.

    The decision rests with you. Practice will make up for 90% of the deficiencies of the DA trigger pull.

    I carry a SA most of the time, but I've been known to stuff my DA Sig P6 into a holster on occasion just because I've gotten good with it and I really like it.
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    If you don't want a decocker, just don't appendix carry.

    (The devil made me say that.)

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

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  5. #5
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    im not a fan of decock

  6. #6
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    I carried and own several pistols with a decock feature. I instructed hundreds of LEOs to use these types of pistols training and practice as with any handgun is the key.

    The P90 is a top quality handgun and well serve you for many years the transition between double to single action is blown way out of proportion by who have not trained to use them.

    A lot of double action revolver users would differ with the idea of not getting a good first round hit. A lot of PPC shooters shot double action only and shot perfect scores doing so.

    Again practice and training is the key when shooting a double action technique can make a huge different.

    Find some one that knows double action shooting its not as hard as you think.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    One in the chamber requires me to pull the hammer back for SA or remain DA on the trigger pull. The XD 40 is not so persnickety. I will need to practice, but it seems that a DA engagement is not likely a issue given the expected range to target in the worst case scenario. But, DA will affect shot placement due to the extra effort to pull the trigger. Should I worry or just practice and get over it. Thoughts?

    Side question, DA or SA when condition 0/1 (depending on the pistol type).
    Just practice and it won't be a big deal. I have noticed the DA to SA transition is very jarring the first time you try it, or if you give it to someone else to try. The first time my boss shot my Px4 he just about jumped out of his shoes with how light the second trigger pull was after the DA pull, it startled him quite a bit. But as soon as you know what it does, it's not a big deal.

    Which leads to your second question. A DA/SA pistol should be carried condition 2; chambered, hammer down. (Safety on or off, your preference, just train that way). The SA trigger pull is too light to safely carry condition 0 (chambered, hammer back, safety off). There is no condition 1 for a DA/SA pistol (cocked and locked, safety on, 1911 style).

  8. #8
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Zero or two.....good point, I was stuck on the 1911 mechanics, P90 is not a 1911. Thanks.

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffrey-r View Post
    ...There is no condition 1 for a DA/SA pistol (cocked and locked, safety on, 1911 style).
    Well, there are some that have the option, yes. The CZ-75, 82, and 83 designs and Taurus PT-92 and 99 designs, for some.
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  10. #10
    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Like several members here, I own both types (w/wo decocker). I found the learning curve to be very small, between bringing the decocker into action, as opposed to my "safe actions", or my external safety pistols. Personally, I think you have the right idea with thumbing the hammer back - if you feel like you have a split second to spare. If you don't have that split second, your intended target will probably be hit somewhere because of the close proximity. And, as you said, practice is the key. Locally, my indoor ranges do not allow working from the holster, so I can only practice that infrequently - like when I'm out in the desert. (When I was active in the WFDA, I could draw, fire and hit my target in .38 seconds [SA revolver, cowboy-style holster], so I'm guessing that with a belt holster and one of my semi-autos it's probably been moved back to .50 or maybe even a bit more) Pax...
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    Personally, I think you have the right idea with thumbing the hammer back - if you feel like you have a split second to spare. If you don't have that split second, your intended target will probably be hit somewhere because of the close proximity. And, as you said, practice is the key. Pax...
    Very dangerous and wastes time in a high stress situation auto pistols hammers are a lot smaller then a single actions.

    Just practice your double action and if you can't find or learn the proper way get an some one that knows how to instruct you in it.

    Frist round hits double action on very small targets isn't that hard if one learns how.
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 11-09-2013 at 07:34 AM.
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  12. #12
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Are guys really concerned between the DA pull and SA pull? I don't own that firearm, but I can't imagine the pull is much different then a few lbs. Meaning, if its 8lbs DA then its what like 5lbs SA? Having a trigger pull 3lbs heavier shouldn't make you miss anything, especially with a pistol. It's not like your trying to hit a 700yd target.

    Is it more the concern of the firing time? As in it takes longer to pull the hammer back then release (DA) then just dropping the hammer when in SA? Again, if your shooting a target anywhere remotely near you, you should be ok.

    Pull (holster) Push (towards bad guy) Shoot

    If you can't, then the problem isn't the gun or method of shooting, might be the user. Range time is the key.

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    My next handgun will probably be a CZ 75. For the life of me I can't decide if I want the SA or the BD model.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Very dangerous and wastes time in a high stress situation auto pistols hammers are a lot smaller then a single actions.

    Just practice your double action and if you can't find or learn the proper way get an some one that knows how to instruct you in it.

    Frist round hits double action on very small targets isn't that hard if one learns how.
    Thanks for sharing your opinion. Did you overlook the emphasized part that says, "if you feel like you have a split second to spare."? As with virtually everything to do with choosing to arm oneself with a handgun, DA/SA/Auto-loader vs wheel-gun, and selecting safety devices is a matter of personal preference, which is why I do not use my CZ-75D as my EDC. There are also some people who thrive in high-stress situations, some who just "manage" their way through them, and some who fall apart. Your point regarding the relatively small hammer on auto-loaders is well made, which is why my 1911 is not my EDC either. Pax...
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  15. #15
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    I'll cede the thread to the Da or SA crowd.....I'll get used to the decocker. Thanks for the input guys, good stuff.

  16. #16
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    Having fired 10s of thousands of rounds through each of the action types mentioned and carried and used them in high stress situations. Except single action revolvers all low stress.

    Thumbing the hammer back for better accuracy might sound like a good idea but it doesn't workout that way.

    In the PPC course of firing single action could be used at the 50yard line I soon learned 10 ring and X hits could be done double action and one didn't waste the time thumbing the hammer back.

    What it does on double action is to give you an unnatural first shot for that type of handgun raising the risk of an unintentional discharge.

    You can say train and train some more but KISS comes into play when the SHTF tying to do some thing extra can really mess things up.

    Trying to learn to cock the hammer when you might need it really isn't worth the time spent and that time would be much better spent learning to hit first round double action.
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