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Time Out ....PLEASE!

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AJG

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Grapeshot said:
Sure it is the people - nothing to prevent them from walking across the room to shake someone's hand. Nothing gets accomplished by staying home either.

You want to change or prode an organization? It is far easier to do from the inside, than from the sidelines. Get involved, stay involved.
Click to expand...

Grape.. agreed and I am and I do. But the people that make the decisions and cast the votes in the GA would rather listen to the man that says I'm in charge than the person that says I'm a part of that group, but I have another view.

And becoming a part of a organization will never change what the leader wants to portray, no matter how many of the members want it as long as he doesnt want it. I use the virginia hunting dog alliance as the perfect storm.. No mater what... the org does what it wants in regards to hunting no matter what the members say. Some orgs are better than others and actually listen to their members. Now my comment above about the leadership was pointed at the example I gave, not the vcdl leadership, but it brings up a good question about the vcdl. Does the vcdl poll their members on issues and how the org will represent the issues to the GA? Or is it strictly a board decision? Are the board members appointed by Phil? or are they voted in by the membership? How do the members get a voice besides perhaps attending a meeting and a view concern getting lost in the shuffle?
 
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Grapeshot

Grapeshot

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AJG said:
Grape.. agreed and I am and I do. But the people that make the decisions and cast the votes in the GA would rather listen to the man that says I'm in charge than the person that says I'm a part of that group, but I have another view.
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I was initially referring to having an effect on an organization.

Insofar as the legislators at the GA, I find they listen to a well informed constituent quite well. The trick is to let them get to know you and where you stand. We could all take lessons from Peter Nap to that regard - he is a master of that art.
 
Grapeshot

Grapeshot

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Thundar said:
Freemasons and Knights Templar have simpler and more open rules for admission to the board than VCDL does. They don't care and have never asked the members what they think. They just want members to send $ to the VCDL PAC and pay their dues. Don't rock the boat and bow to the P4P God. Constitutional Carry? They have higher priorities. Besides Constitutional Carry might hurt the business of some board members.

VCDL members are the salt of the earth. Go anywhere on short notice and stand up for each other. They deserve a better board of directors than what they have. Think I'm wrong? Look at the slimy thing VCDL President Philip Van Cleave did on election day. Blasting out a Glen Beck hit piece against the most pro gun candidate in the entire Commonwealth. Consequences for Philip? Nah, the ends justify the means, and besides he is one of them.

Live Free or Die,
Thundar
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Thundar, I am quite frankly shocked and disappointed in the vitrol and insulting remarks, even find them in violation of the forum rules. Will not entertain a continued discussion along these lines - be advised.
 
MAC702

MAC702

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Grapeshot said:
Thundar, I am quite frankly shocked and disappointed in the vitrol and insulting remarks, even find them in violation of the forum rules. Will not entertain a continued discussion along these lines - be advised.
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I'm having trouble agreeing with you here. I don't know the issue, but he called out a man who is the head of an organization, a position of responsibility who has to back up his actions to his membership, no? He may be blunt about it, but I don't see the rule-breaking.

If he made such comments about another so-called "President," acting in his official capacity, would it be breaking the rules?
 
Marco

Marco

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MAC702 said:
I'm having trouble agreeing with you here. I don't know the issue, but he called out a man who is the head of an organization, a position of responsibility who has to back up his actions to his membership, no? He may be blunt about it, but I don't see the rule-breaking.

If he made such comments about another so-called "President," acting in his official capacity, would it be breaking the rules?
Click to expand...



I have to agree with this.


But, gentlemen/ladies this thread is intended for us to set aside our differences and unite to defeat our common enemy.
We have lots of work ahead of us.
 
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A

aisiguy

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Since I have greatly contributed to the recently raised temperature on the board - maybe instigated if Marshaul is right - let me say: it is clear that there will be major unhappiness and an inclination for recriminations over the election for some time to come. Nothing is going to change that immediately - the stakes were too high and we all here clearly see our position as correct.

But if we truly believe that our motivating cause here is just, we (including me) must put away recriminations and move on. And focus on what we can do now to prevent further, fairly immediate loss.

That was the original thought behind this thread, as I see it, and it seems right to me. Though I hate to quote a non-Virginian when we have so many quotables of our own, this time I'll go with Franklin (para.): We hang together, or separately.
 
Grapeshot

Grapeshot

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MAC702 said:
I'm having trouble agreeing with you here. I don't know the issue, but he called out a man who is the head of an organization, a position of responsibility who has to back up his actions to his membership, no? He may be blunt about it, but I don't see the rule-breaking.

If he made such comments about another so-called "President," acting in his official capacity, would it be breaking the rules?
Click to expand...
Apparently some can't see the forest for the trees - quite clearly the line has been crossed.

(6) NO PERSONAL ATTACKS: While you may disagree strongly with another poster based upon their opinion, we will NOT tolerate any personal attacks or general bashing of groups of people based upon race, religion, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, gender-identity or choice of occupation (e.g., being a law enforcement officer, in the military, etc). NOTE THAT THIS RULE APPLIES TO PMs AS WELL AS FORUM POSTS!!!

(9) HATE IS NOT WELCOME HERE: Any posts attacking others based upon race, religion, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, gender-identity, or anything other than opposition to gun rights is NOT WELCOME HERE! We reserve the right to impose immediate bans for such behavior.

(12) NO BASHING OF OTHER GUN RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS: Regardless of how convinced you are that another gun rights organization is not doing their job, this is not the place to air those concerns unless they are specifically related to an anti-open carry position taken by that organization. All other rants against other gun rights groups will be deleted or the thread locked.
 
Grapeshot

Grapeshot

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Thundar said:
--snipped--

Live Free or Die,
Thundar
Click to expand...

You are splitting hairs and picking certain words while ignoring the rest - "slimy" and "dirty deed" are insulting - rule #6.

You attacked VCDL leadership & PAC because they did not agree with your personal politics, not for their opposition to gun rights - rule #9 violation.

You did indeed praise VCDL members then attack the organization in spite of the admonishment that "this is not the place to air those concerns" - taken direct from rule #12
 
Grapeshot

Grapeshot

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I apologize to the rest of the forum for this diversion.

Sincerely hope that we can put any differences aside and find common ground to pull together.
 
Thundar

Thundar

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The coin has two sides

Grapeshot said:
Apparently some can't see the forest for the trees - quite clearly the line has been crossed.

(6) NO PERSONAL ATTACKS: While you may disagree strongly with another poster based upon their opinion, we will NOT tolerate any personal attacks or general bashing of groups of people based upon race, religion, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, gender-identity or choice of occupation (e.g., being a law enforcement officer, in the military, etc). NOTE THAT THIS RULE APPLIES TO PMs AS WELL AS FORUM POSTS!!!

(9) HATE IS NOT WELCOME HERE: Any posts attacking others based upon race, religion, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, gender-identity, or anything other than opposition to gun rights is NOT WELCOME HERE! We reserve the right to impose immediate bans for such behavior.

(12) NO BASHING OF OTHER GUN RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS: Regardless of how convinced you are that another gun rights organization is not doing their job, this is not the place to air those concerns unless they are specifically related to an anti-open carry position taken by that organization. All other rants against other gun rights groups will be deleted or the thread locked.
Click to expand...
Deleted.
 
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C

Citizen

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Location
Fairfax Co., VA
Grapeshot said:
Apparently some can't see the forest for the trees - quite clearly the line has been crossed.

(6) NO PERSONAL ATTACKS: While you may disagree strongly with another poster based upon their opinion, we will NOT tolerate any personal attacks or general bashing of groups of people based upon race, religion, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, gender-identity or choice of occupation (e.g., being a law enforcement officer, in the military, etc). NOTE THAT THIS RULE APPLIES TO PMs AS WELL AS FORUM POSTS!!!

(9) HATE IS NOT WELCOME HERE: Any posts attacking others based upon race, religion, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, gender-identity, or anything other than opposition to gun rights is NOT WELCOME HERE! We reserve the right to impose immediate bans for such behavior.

(12) NO BASHING OF OTHER GUN RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS: Regardless of how convinced you are that another gun rights organization is not doing their job, this is not the place to air those concerns unless they are specifically related to an anti-open carry position taken by that organization. All other rants against other gun rights groups will be deleted or the thread locked.
Click to expand...

Lets be blunt and honest here, people.

The rules are here being used as a pretext. Its not what was being written; its who it is being written against.

The proof is in the pudding--on another current thread, an editor of Guns and Ammo is taking a pounding. He clearly is not in opposition to gun rights.

Also--and this is a very, very big also--the moderator doing the deleting and rules slapping in this thread is an executive of VCDL.
 
C

Citizen

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Grapeshot said:
Please do not put me in the position further of having to moderate someone whom I otherwise embrace with regard.

Your input is valued within the forum rules.
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Readers,

What's been happening here isn't moderation--its covert defense of another organization using OCDO rules as the pretext.

Which of course reflects badly on that other organization.

One wonders whether their president or executive level should be alerted to how their name is being sullied here under the guise of "moderation".
 
Grapeshot

Grapeshot

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Citizen said:
Lets be blunt and honest here, people.

The rules are here being used as a pretext. Its not what was being written; its who it is being written against.

The proof is in the pudding--on another current thread, an editor of Guns and Ammo is taking a pounding. He clearly is not in opposition to gun rights.

Also--and this is a very, very big also--the moderator doing the deleting and rules slapping in this thread is an executive of VCDL.
Click to expand...

When you own the site, then you can make the rules and interpret them any way that pleases you.

Your agenda is sadly obvious and ineffective. Your implications are insulting and have been answered by both organizations - there is no conflict.

If effectively following procedure were your intentions, then you know (been told repeatedly) how to file a complaint w/o hanging your laundry in the front yard AND highjacking a thread.

Edits to follow as necessary.
 
Grapeshot

Grapeshot

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Locking this thread with my apology to those that wish to generate support of our efforts.

Waaay to much highjacking for personal agenda and that is a serious breach of conduct.
 
1245A Defender

1245A Defender

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Well,,,

Grapeshot said:
Locking this thread with my apology to those that wish to generate support of our efforts.

Waaay to much highjacking for personal agenda and that is a serious breach of conduct.
Click to expand...

Not quite so locked as you may have intended...

I am very sorry that the Virginia Gun Rights Folks have become
Sooo fractured over what would seem to be the goals of all, everywhere...

Reminds me of the infighting and back biting that swallowed up the energy
of the RTBA Folk in Michigan just a couple years ago.

Instead of all joining together against a common enemy,
Groups are dividing, and ultimately concoring (loosing the battle),, them selves!
 
scouser

scouser

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804, VA
Can't we get this discussion back to what peter nap said when he started this thread?

Is it right to be fighting among ourselves, we're supposed to be people with a common interest and instead of standing strong together we're beset with in-fighting and finger pointing.

It's far easier for our enemy to subdue us if we're broken up into smaller more manageable groups each with our own seperate agenda rather than one large unified force, it's Philip II's strategy of dividing and conquering the Greek city-states all over again.

Sure, we just lost one battle. But let's not lose the whole war
 
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Primus

Primus

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Was that fighting in the thread about not fighting, staged? It was an example of what not to do I think. Good on them.

I agree, either stand together or they will rip us apart.
 
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