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Thread: attempted gas station robbery

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    attempted gas station robbery

    a few years back i was at a gas station down in Detroit. i live just outside of the city but do most of my work as a fugitive recovery agent in the inner city it was like any other day. i went in and paid for my gas then went out and filled my tank. i went back in after filling up to get something to drink. i am standing by the drink fountain pouring a 44 oz size cup of mountain dew (i bleed green). i had my glock with me as i always do it was on my right hip and pointing towards the rear of the store. people walking in wouldn't have been able to see it i notice someone walk in and hear the chimes. next thing i know there is a guy at the counter with what appeared to be dynamite on his chest with a clock and wires. it appeared at first glance to be a bomb. i drew my glock out and pointed at the individual who was trying to rob the gas station by stating he had a bomb and would blow us all up. i yelled do not make a move you have a loaded gun pointed at your head. he spun around. looked at me and my gun, then said "ive got a bomb and i will blow it up" when he spun around i noticed the clerk had reached under the counter. i assumed at the time it was to trip the silent hold up alarm. back to the nutbag with the bomb. he started going on and on how he was going to blow us all up to the point i said just do it already if you are going to (maybe not the best choice when dealing with someone threatening to use a bomb) the police arrives while i still had him at gun point and secured the suspect. it turned out he had road flares strapped to his chest with a alarm clock and some speaker wires to make it appear as a real bomb. the situation could have been worse but at the end of the day the good guys won and another criminal gets to spend some time in jail. i felt like a hero that day and often visit that gas station where the owner has let me get free fountain drinks for the past few years.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Glad it worked out, but I would have let him rob the station and went on with my business. If he had a real bomb you could have pushed him to blow it up, if you shot him he probably would detonate it(nothing to lose). If he was a terrorist he would have blown it no matter what you did. IMO the best thing to do was be a good witness, let him rob the store and be on his way.
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    Raylan [Givens]: You know where I'm from a$$hole?
    Carter [bank robber]: No.
    Raylan: Harlan County.
    Carter: So.
    Raylan (punches Carter): Down there we know the difference between dynamite and road flares.

    http://www.tvfanatic.com/quotes/you-...lan-county-so/
    Just saying. Good work.

    What did the cops do when/if they saw your firearm?

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Just saying. Good work.

    What did the cops do when/if they saw your firearm?
    they had drawn down on me when they arrived. i slowly took my hand off the trigger and lowered my gun as i was instructed by them to do so.they were very verbal when shouting commands at me. which is fine, im not sure if they knew i was on their side or not and being cautious. they then cleared the weapon by removing the mag and locking the slide back. i gave them my CCW paperwork (now known as a CPL in michigan) as well as my FRA licence and paperwork. i assume they ran the serial numbers to ensure it wasnt reported stolen and whatnot because one of the officers took it back to his car and got on his radio. they returned my gun to me after they took mine and the clerks statements and i went about my day hunting the particular fugitive i was after at that time.
    Last edited by hmbiohazard; 11-07-2013 at 09:47 AM.

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    I half agree with WW and half respectfully disagree withh both him and the OP.

    Guy has on what reasonably appears to be a bomb and makes a statement that he will detonate it. OP has his handgun drawn and hopefully is aiming for a cranial shot.

    When the BG says "...and I will blow it up" that's an imminent threat of death or serious bodily harm. You are already drawn.

    Not to play keyboard kommando, but if that is not a near-perfect example of a good shoot needing to be taken I do not know what else the OP needed before pressing the trigger.

    My very considered opinion is that guns are not props to demonstrate that we are serious about things we say like "Put your hands up" or "Get up off that naked lady". Like warning shots, warning statements only give the BG time to react and change your OODA loop. To put it more plainly, if you are going to shoot, shoot. If you don't have a reason to shoot and don't intend to shoot, your handgun should have stayed in the holster. It's the hesitation that will get you killed.

    Only the BG with the phoney bomb is responsible for the conseuences of a GG taking him at his word.

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    I half agree with WW and half respectfully disagree withh both him and the OP.

    Guy has on what reasonably appears to be a bomb and makes a statement that he will detonate it. OP has his handgun drawn and hopefully is aiming for a cranial shot.

    When the BG says "...and I will blow it up" that's an imminent threat of death or serious bodily harm. You are already drawn.

    Not to play keyboard kommando, but if that is not a near-perfect example of a good shoot needing to be taken I do not know what else the OP needed before pressing the trigger.

    My very considered opinion is that guns are not props to demonstrate that we are serious about things we say like "Put your hands up" or "Get up off that naked lady". Like warning shots, warning statements only give the BG time to react and change your OODA loop. To put it more plainly, if you are going to shoot, shoot. If you don't have a reason to shoot and don't intend to shoot, your handgun should have stayed in the holster. It's the hesitation that will get you killed.

    Only the BG with the phoney bomb is responsible for the conseuences of a GG taking him at his word.

    stay safe.
    My take on the OP is the faux bomber was there to rob the store, not blow it up. While it may have been a threat, IMO it was not a reasonable threat. And if it was a real bomb the pointing of the gun was not a wise decision. I don't carry to be a hero, heroes get people killed.
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    Regular Member JustaShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Guy has on what reasonably appears to be a bomb and makes a statement that he will detonate it. OP has his handgun drawn and hopefully is aiming for a cranial shot.
    Head shot in this case is no better than a chest shot - think dead man switch.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustaShooter View Post
    Head shot in this case is no better than a chest shot - think dead man switch.
    in the heat of the moment we make split second descisions. although it more than likely would have been a justified shooting. i was contemplating the fact that something didnt seem right about the guy. the threat was there. but i didnt feel it was a legit bomb. i think it was more of a prop to rob the store. granted its not everyday you see someone in detroit with what appears to be bomb strapped to his chest. i was aiming at his head because obviously if it was a real bomb it may have set it off. also he did have a switch in his hand and i felt that even if i do take a shot it could still potentially go off. was best to let the authorities deal with it. or clean up the mess. i felt if he was serious about blowing it up he would have done so soon as i confronted him with a loaded handgun pointed at him. the fact he didnt made me feel it was less likey to be a real bomb and i just needed to keep him detained until the police arrived on scene. since the clerk hit a panic alarm, they probably didnt have any idea what they were walking inot and thats why they reacted how they did when the find me with my gun drawn and pointed at someone in the store. int he end everyone walked away from the incident without injury and the BG ended up where he belonged. i had a choice to make and i did and it saved one person from losing their life.

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    When did this attempted robbery occur? What's the date? What's the name of the gas station? Address? Was it in the news?
    Last edited by Bernymac; 11-07-2013 at 10:43 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernymac View Post
    When did this attempted robbery occur? What's the date? What's the name of the gas station? Address? Was it in the news?
    i dont think it was in the news. it was at a bp on the eastside on gratiot road. i dont live in the area so i cant give a exact address. not sure on the exact date. it was 4-5 years ago

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    Quote Originally Posted by hmbiohazard View Post
    i dont think it was in the news. it was at a bp on the eastside on gratiot road. i dont live in the area so i cant give a exact address. not sure on the exact date. it was 4-5 years ago
    A significant event that is a total blur, huh? Must have been traumatic. Did EOD get called in?

    It's good that you still remember the type and size of what you were drinking, though. And that you still get free drinks at the same gas station for a few years that is located somewhere you don't remember since you don't live in the area.
    Last edited by Bernymac; 11-07-2013 at 11:22 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernymac View Post
    A significant event that is a total blur, huh? Must have been traumatic. Did EOD get called in?

    It's good that you still remember the type and size of what you were drinking, though. And that you still get free drinks at the same gas station for a few years that is located somewhere you don't remember since you don't live in the area.
    yeah any gas station i go to for a fountain drink is always the same size 44 ounce. i stop into that particular one maybe 1-2 times a month when i am in that area. i know the gas station by its location. it is on gratiot ave just outside of downtown. i frequently have to go downtown for court appearances. depending on where i am coming from, either home or office depends if i come in by the eastern roads or the western roads. the owner mainly operates it in the morning when i typically go in. and yes in detroit being a big city i dont know the exact address. if i remembered every address i have ever been to i would be getting paid alot more than i am now since i would have a computer like rolodex brain.as for the bomb squad coming im not sure. if they didnt its because the responding officers clearly realized that the bomb as not legit and made of road flares. they use them quite a bit so they would i assume know the difference between that a dynamite. why are you busting my balls? i decided to share a story and i get grief for it..

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    Maybe I'm a crazy guy...but not taking a shot and everybody walking away sounds like a good outcome. Good on you for exercising some restraint. OTOH, allowing the robbery to go down might not have been such a bad idea (if everybody survives uninjured). Stores carry insurance (mostly) and unwinding a shooting/investigation/charges can take YEARS...not to mention making the papers, etc. Who wants the hassle?

    In all likelihood, OP sized up the situation and took action to preserve life...his, the clerk's and the perp's. If it was a real device, at least he'd have been hurt trying to improve his odds...and that's really where the rubber hits the road. Everything else, the fact it's actually fake, taking action to "save the dollars!" etc is just so much monday morning quarterbacking. OP sounds like a responsible person able to assess the situation and act appropriately.

    Only thing i'd take issue with is failing to re-holster before the cops got eyeballs on him...that could have ended really poorly for the OP. Think about it...cops responding to an armed robbery/holdup alarm...they WILL have guns drawn and they will have ZERO information about who/what...naturally, shooting the guy with the gun isn't going to be second-guessed. that's reason enough to choose your holster so that it allows fast/safe reholstering because reholster speed can save your butt.
    Last edited by CT Barfly; 11-07-2013 at 01:16 PM.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Tell us again whose life you saved?

    Kudos to the cops for focusing on you and not on the flares guy, though. (Not really)

    To me, it seems like your best move would have been to exit the store and call 911, but hey, you got a free serial number search.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JustaShooter View Post
    Head shot in this case is no better than a chest shot - think dead man switch.
    Me thinks a bomber with a deadman switch is too smart to be robbing a gas station. But, then again, I ain't a stupid gas station robber or other criminal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CT Barfly View Post
    Maybe I'm a crazy guy...but not taking a shot and everybody walking away sounds like a good outcome. Good on you for exercising some restraint. OTOH, allowing the robbery to go down might not have been such a bad idea (if everybody survives uninjured). Stores carry insurance (mostly) and unwinding a shooting/investigation/charges can take YEARS...not to mention making the papers, etc. Who wants the hassle?

    In all likelihood, OP sized up the situation and took action to preserve life...his, the clerk's and the perp's. If it was a real device, at least he'd have been hurt trying to improve his odds...and that's really where the rubber hits the road. Everything else, the fact it's actually fake, taking action to "save the dollars!" etc is just so much monday morning quarterbacking. OP sounds like a responsible person able to assess the situation and act appropriately.

    Only thing i'd take issue with is failing to re-holster before the cops got eyeballs on him...that could have ended really poorly for the OP. Think about it...cops responding to an armed robbery/holdup alarm...they WILL have guns drawn and they will have ZERO information about who/what...naturally, shooting the guy with the gun isn't going to be second-guessed. that's reason enough to choose your holster so that it allows fast/safe reholstering because reholster speed can save your butt.
    there are many things that could have been done differently. fortunately i complied with the responding officers. and once they spoke to me and the clerk i was cleared and no charges were filed against me

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    Quote Originally Posted by hmbiohazard View Post
    there are many things that could have been done differently. fortunately i complied with the responding officers. and once they spoke to me and the clerk i was cleared and no charges were filed against me
    Bravo Zulu!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Tell us again whose life you saved?

    Kudos to the cops for focusing on you and not on the flares guy, though. (Not really)

    To me, it seems like your best move would have been to exit the store and call 911, but hey, you got a free serial number search.
    i knew my pistol was fine, it was assigned to me as my duty weapon since i was on the way to work i had it with me as i always do. i knew them running the serial would not turn anything up

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    Quote Originally Posted by hmbiohazard View Post
    why are you busting my balls? i decided to share a story and i get grief for it..
    Why so defensive? You are in a section titled "TRUE" Tales of Self Defense. Don't get in a huff when someone is not willing to buy the "TRUE" in your story right off the bat, specially if it reads like a sieve. There was a reason I asked about EOD.

    But still, cool story, bro!

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    Quote Originally Posted by hmbiohazard View Post
    i knew my pistol was fine, it was assigned to me as my duty weapon since i was on the way to work i had it with me as i always do. i knew them running the serial would not turn anything up
    Unfortunately, running a serial number when no crime is suspected is overstepping. I am sure you consented, though...which makes it per se reasonable.

    "While you're here, sir, mind if we take your blood to see if you've been drinking?"

    How far would you let them go before drawing the line?

    You gun was taken, made safe (no officer safety issues then existing). You left your information in case they felt like following up (nice of you to do, again consenting).

    My advice would be to NEVER speak to anyone other than your lawyer after a use of force incident...and don't hire a lawyer unless you are charged with a crime. Remember, silence (exept for ID), charges, lawyer...in that order. Let the clerk tell them what happened. If anything goes sideways, the last thing you want is your statement at the scene being inconsistent with a later statement...prosecutors (and plaintiff's lawyers) will love that.

    Officers responding to the scene will tell the prosecutor what they saw and a prosecutor will decide whether charges are warranted. You start making admissions...you are only helping them hang you. The clerk had no such risk of prosecution, and so may freely speak without fear. The guy standing there with a bomb strapped to his chest will have quite a bit of explaining to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    I half agree with WW and half respectfully disagree withh both him and the OP.

    Guy has on what reasonably appears to be a bomb and makes a statement that he will detonate it. OP has his handgun drawn and hopefully is aiming for a cranial shot.

    When the BG says "...and I will blow it up" that's an imminent threat of death or serious bodily harm. You are already drawn.

    Not to play keyboard kommando, but if that is not a near-perfect example of a good shoot needing to be taken I do not know what else the OP needed before pressing the trigger.

    My very considered opinion is that guns are not props to demonstrate that we are serious about things we say like "Put your hands up" or "Get up off that naked lady". Like warning shots, warning statements only give the BG time to react and change your OODA loop. To put it more plainly, if you are going to shoot, shoot. If you don't have a reason to shoot and don't intend to shoot, your handgun should have stayed in the holster. It's the hesitation that will get you killed.

    Only the BG with the phoney bomb is responsible for the conseuences of a GG taking him at his word.

    stay safe.
    Somebody check the temp in hell, I agree 100% with skid

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hmbiohazard View Post
    in the heat of the moment we make split second descisions. although it more than likely would have been a justified shooting. i was contemplating the fact that something didnt seem right about the guy. the threat was there. but i didnt feel it was a legit bomb. i think it was more of a prop to rob the store. granted its not everyday you see someone in detroit with what appears to be bomb strapped to his chest. i was aiming at his head because obviously if it was a real bomb it may have set it off. also he did have a switch in his hand and i felt that even if i do take a shot it could still potentially go off. was best to let the authorities deal with it. or clean up the mess. i felt if he was serious about blowing it up he would have done so soon as i confronted him with a loaded handgun pointed at him. the fact he didnt made me feel it was less likey to be a real bomb and i just needed to keep him detained until the police arrived on scene. since the clerk hit a panic alarm, they probably didnt have any idea what they were walking inot and thats why they reacted how they did when the find me with my gun drawn and pointed at someone in the store. int he end everyone walked away from the incident without injury and the BG ended up where he belonged. i had a choice to make and i did and it saved one person from losing their life.
    So you did not believe the bomb was real, so there was no credible threat. Had the bomb been real, YOU were the threat, in fact if I had been there YOU would have been the one I would have been drawing down on. Think about it, you would blow everybody up to stick your nose in where it did not concern you. You were not being robbed, instead of getting out you injected yourself into the situation.

    Again the purpose of being a LAC is not to be a cop or a hero, IMO.
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    I have nothing to add on-topic. I would merely be echoing what others have written.

    I just wanted to say that whitespace and capitalization make posts a helluva lot easier to read.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I have nothing to add on-topic. I would merely be echoing what others have written.

    I just wanted to say that whitespace and capitalization make posts a helluva lot easier to read.
    best advice in the thread, lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    So you did not believe the bomb was real, so there was no credible threat. Had the bomb been real, YOU were the threat, in fact if I had been there YOU would have been the one I would have been drawing down on. Think about it, you would blow everybody up to stick your nose in where it did not concern you. You were not being robbed, instead of getting out you injected yourself into the situation.

    Again the purpose of being a LAC is not to be a cop or a hero, IMO.
    I mostly agree with you...however...most of the time lethal force is allowed when SBI is reasonably imminent..whether directed to yourself or someone else.

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