Don't OC so that you may continue to OC!

IMO your op is a pretty legit thought process. Basically what it boils down to is, 'don't oc so the right isn't taken away' ita doesa nota makea any sensa! Sounds like a privilege based position rather than a rights based position. I think they have a very twisted sense of things, how they work, and how they should to be.


Alas, I speak from no experience, this is just based on observations

self preservation said:

Getting back to my original post. Any thoughts from you veteran OC'ers on my conundrum? I realize my OP is rather lengthy and may seem foolish to some, but these are questions that I can't answer and that bothers me.

Click to expand...

It boils down to how you feel.

Personally I don't let the anti's persuade my thought process or my method of carry. Although there is a rare occasion where I will CC, mostly having to do with going to a place my other half wants to go that I know are not pro gun. I won't cater to what I consider peoples irrational fears, because of a recent mass shooting. I have actually been thanked for OC'ing after these events, people tell me they feel safer knowing I am armed, that's a great feeling. The hiding of a gun will not change the mind the of an anti, the not exercising of a right in fear of loosing it means you already lost it.

Would I carry at a Bday party sure, because the people inviting me know I carry everywhere, it has nothing to do with the kids there. A recent birthday party (not a kids one) I was told by a complete stranger (a pregnant female) who was sitting next to me, how awesome it was I was carrying and safe it made her feel.

Hero: Open Carry is against the Constitution

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...e-im-going-shoot-right-head-nothing-personal/

Two bad apples threaten a citizen for exercising his rights in an open carry state, they also say he shouldn't open carry to preserve the 2nd amendment.

77zach said:

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...e-im-going-shoot-right-head-nothing-personal/

Two bad apples threaten a citizen for exercising his rights in an open carry state, they also say he shouldn't open carry to preserve the 2nd amendment.

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He was saying open carry a RIFLE. Pretty sure this forum isnt about OC rifles. It was saying there's no reason to walk around looking like GI Joe, other then to get a reaction from people (he admitted thats why he was doing it). Well they got a reaction. It was people calling the police. Be careful what you wish for.

You wrote;

'Recently, I was told by a friend that I shouldn't OC. When I asked him why, he responded "because a lot of states that were OC friendly have passed laws that makes OC illegal now because they have had issues with people OC'ing."'

First thing you should have asked your friend was, "name them". He won't be able to because "lots" of states in his comment do not exist. What your response would show him is that you have some knowledge about this topic and have done some research. You may quell his argument a bit by demonstrating this.

What he is really trying to tell you is that HE doesn't approve of your decision to OC, not that others don't. Your comments about acting responsibly are spot on.... something all of us should always do all the time; not just when we venture out with sidearm in view. However, you do not have a public responsibility to make others feel comfortable when you are in their presence, unless that is your choice (you mentioned a birthday party for example).

I also CC when I deem it to be in my better interests at some given time or location. I am not a servant for the OC movement and don't wish to be. I have my own reasons for OC'ing, just as I do for CC'ing, and consider them all that I need to do either. You should be free to feel the same way. As to answering others' questions, just continue doing as I'm sure you are doing, politely and with respect, and you'll be fine. If you encounter someone who wishes to challenge you, be the better person and either beg off or stay and answer... but do remain calm.

Your friend is not likely to change his feelings about your choice. You may try to ply him with facts, statistics, and knowledge but it he's set in his ways, it will probably go in one ear and out the other. Best to avoid discussions with people like that as they tend to be no-wins situations.

I'll throw in my 0.02 ..

Open carry is different things to different people, and IMO that is what can potentially create issues with the public.

In my opinion, what I call "real" open carry is quite boring. It is simply going about one's daily business as usual, and being visibly armed while doing so. It also (hopefully) involves decent situational awareness, so that one is aware of potential threats.

In many cases, open carry is something many people are not often exposed to (at least in some areas), and because of that, it may involve having discussions with people (store employees, curious bystanders, police officers) about your firearm. It may also involve having to decide whether or not one is willing to patronize a business if open carry is not welcome at that business.

If one wants to promote normalization of open carry, then one MUST be civil and polite during these discussions. If they are, then they give a good impression of gun owners. If they are not, they give a very bad impression.

In theory, open carry is basically the same as concealed carry, other than that one's clothing covers up the firearm in one case, and doesn't in the other case.

However, some people have the impression that open carry is not an ordinary activity, but instead is a form of political activism. This impression is bolstered by OCers who make a show of the fact that they are open carrying a weapon, and is firmly reenforced by those who have aggressive and/or confrontational discussions with either law enforcement, store owners, or other members of the public.

This includes what was happening (in some cases) at Starbucks. Some people were not, in my opinion, simply engaged in open carry - they were engaged in political activism, as they were gathering in a group for the explicit purpose of showcasing open carry.

Now admittedly, some people think that ANY carrying of a weapon is a political show, even if one is not doing anything other than going about their normal business. Those folks would be wrong ... but that's not going to stop them from thinking that way. We may not be able to change their opinion, regardless of how polite and well-behaved we are ... and that's simply the way it is. It's the others who may be on the fence that we have the chance to convince that open carry is not a bad thing (and actually a good thing).

In my opinion, the best policy for an open carrier to follow is to always be polite and respectful to everyone - even if they are not polite and respectful to you. Respect the rights of store owners to exclude you from their property if they desire to (as that is absolutely their right to do so). Just "be nice" in general. I think that that gives a much better impression to the world of open carriers than that which is presented by in-your-face activists.

And if one is going to engage in political activism, it should NOT be at any business that wants nothing to do with political activism (e.g. Starbucks, which had previously expressed a NEUTRAL position, not a pro-gun position). It is not sensible for us to demand that other people respect our right to open carry if we do not respect their right to control their own property.

Even businesses that support open carry don't necessarily want a dozen open carriers converging on their store and possibly making a scene. There are exceptions, of course (e.g. I'd guess that All Around Pizza in Virginia Beach is fine with that) but most businesses want to sell to as many folks as possible, and don't want some of their customers to be intimidated by others.

Some other quick thoughts ... as far as I'm concerned, unless you're in an area where the chance of a wild animal attack is a fair bit more than "very slim," I'm not convinced that OCing a rifle is a good idea. I also think that if one is out in public OCing, one should never unholster a weapon unless it is absolutely necessary for self-defense.

I think it really boils down to "be polite to everyone and be respectful of others." When we are rude and disrespectful, that hurts the open carry movement and gives us a bad reputation. It doesn't mean you're going to convince everyone (or anyone) by being polite and respectful, but hopefully at worst, you'll give the impression that OCers are polite people.

I mostly agree with you. However, if a LEO stops me simply for unadorned OC, he has initiated a confrontation. While I believe it to be wiser to save the arguing for later, I will sound a bit rude when I refuse to give up any of my rights. That kind of rudeness is not only OK, it is necessary.


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<o>

Primus said:

I'm not a veteran OC'er, but I will attempt to throw an opinion or "answer" to keep the thread and thoughts going.

I think your initial thought about carrying responsibly and respectfully is spot on. Should you be able to carry wherever you want when ever you want? Sure. Does that mean you HAVE to? No.

If you decide NOT to carry someplace, then it shouldn't automatically be chalked up as a "loss of liberty" or "oppression". It can be just chalked up to using some tact.

Click to expand...

This is when I CC, and/or leave my OC holster on, but the gun elsewhere (e.g., locked in the car).

Primus said:

...For example, your going to a relatives house. It's a young kids birthday party. There will be lots of activities that your kid may want you to do and a million little kids running around. Start the thought process.

Are you in danger by being there? I know i know I know, you can get attacked anywhere. But realistically, unless your going to plug a 5 year old for stealing your cake, your probably pretty safe.

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Huh? When did Primus announce to us that he was a mind reader or fortune teller?

No offense meant, Primus, but how DO you propose protecting yourself and your child(ren) when that birthday party is attacked by the meth head you didn't know lived next door?

Yes. I attend my relatives birthday parties, and those of their children, while open carrying.

Primus said:

...Sometimes too much too soon can turn a on the fence person to a hell no person.

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How do you get to "too much" if you are exposed to nothing?

Primus said:

Especially if they get "excited" and you get "excited in response".

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Simple. Don't get excited in response.

Primus said:

Ever seen the video of the guy getting shot at a party because as he was hugging another person, a small child came over and pulled his gun out from his OC holster? Guy didn't make it. More recently saw a similar video of a guy at a wedding. Same thing, kids and people around and bam gun goes off.

Click to expand...

Are there irresponsible people? Yes.

Are there stupid people? Yes.

Are many of them armed? Apparently so.

Even a basic thumb-snap retention holster would be a big help.

Will wearing my gun offend some people? Yes.

When it comes to my safety and that of my family, do I care if I offend somebody? No.

MyWifeSaidYes said:

Huh? When did Primus announce to us that he was a mind reader or fortune teller?

No offense meant, Primus, but how DO you propose protecting yourself and your child(ren) when that birthday party is attacked by the meth head you didn't know lived next door?

Yes. I attend my relatives birthday parties, and those of their children, while open carrying.


How do you get to "too much" if you are exposed to nothing?



Simple. Don't get excited in response.



Are there irresponsible people? Yes.

Are there stupid people? Yes.

Are many of them armed? Apparently so.

Even a basic thumb-snap retention holster would be a big help.

Will wearing my gun offend some people? Yes.

When it comes to my safety and that of my family, do I care if I offend somebody? No.

Click to expand...

First, can you quote a time that a meth head as ever attacked a children's birthday party? You kind of proved my point that you can what if any place to death. What if aliens attack? What if zombies attack? Your never 100% safe. With that being said, if you KNOW the guy next door eats people, then OC away. My point was a 1 year olds B-day party at (insert small residential neighborhood with zero crime) is substantially safer then walking to your car at 3am in down town Chicago (or many neighborhoods I could point out to you). It's merely discretion.

You can be exposed to the concept of carrying without slapping them in the face with the pistol. It's called conversation.... "hey guys we should go shooting sometime..." "OMG you have guns??" "Yes ma'am, in fact I usually carry everywhere I go..." and so on and so forth....

All I was saying is there's a thing called tact and sometimes is beneficial to use it sometimes. You can do anything you like, I was merely throwing an opinion since it was requested by the OP.

Primus said:

First, can you quote a time that a meth head as ever attacked a children's birthday party? You kind of proved my point that you can what if any place to death. What if aliens attack? What if zombies attack? Your never 100% safe. With that being said, if you KNOW the guy next door eats people, then OC away. My point was a 1 year olds B-day party at (insert small residential neighborhood with zero crime) is substantially safer then walking to your car at 3am in down town Chicago (or many neighborhoods I could point out to you). It's merely discretion.

Click to expand...

No one has EVER been shot on the one square foot of land located 12 feet north of my front porch and 29 feet to the west. At least, I can't find any record of such after a brief Internet search.

I did, however, find the 1-year-old that was shot in his stroller while being pushed across the street. And the 1-year-old that was shot while being carried home from a park?

It's not "What if...", it's "When..."

Primus said:

You can be exposed to the concept of carrying without slapping them in the face with the pistol. It's called conversation.... "hey guys we should go shooting sometime..." "OMG you have guns??" "Yes ma'am, in fact I usually carry everywhere I go..." and so on and so forth....

Click to expand...

How do you get from my hip-holstered handgun to "slapping them in the face"? I really don't get that.

Yes, I've gotten the "Is that a real gun?" question with the associated wide-eyed look. A calm, "Yes, it is." gets the conversation started just fine.

Primus said:

All I was saying is there's a thing called tact and sometimes is beneficial to use it sometimes. You can do anything you like, I was merely throwing an opinion since it was requested by the OP.

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Fair enough.

MyWifeSaidYes said:

No one has EVER been shot on the one square foot of land located 12 feet north of my front porch and 29 feet to the west. At least, I can't find any record of such after a brief Internet search.

I did, however, find the 1-year-old that was shot in his stroller while being pushed across the street. And the 1-year-old that was shot while being carried home from a park?

It's not "What if...", it's "When..."



How do you get from my hip-holstered handgun to "slapping them in the face"? I really don't get that.

Yes, I've gotten the "Is that a real gun?" question with the associated wide-eyed look. A calm, "Yes, it is." gets the conversation started just fine.



Fair enough.

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Not what if, but when? So your waiting for that day that the crack head crashes a little kids birthday party that your at?

You answered your own question....."question associated with a wide-eyed look". That's my definition of a "slap". A wide eyed look is usually associated with some form of shock or disbelief. Don't need to incite shock to talk about something....

He is not saying that his kid's birthday party will be attacked, just that it is a real possibility.

I have lived in, by my best count, 13 different homes during my lifetime. Not one has had a kitchen fire. It is highly unlikely I will ever experience one. I still have fire extinguishers in the kitchens of both of my homes.

Someone will have a kitchen fire. Not if, but when. When he does, I hope he has a fire extinguisher.


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<o>

Primus said:

First, can you quote a time that a meth head as ever attacked a children's birthday party? You kind of proved my point that you can what if any place to death. What if aliens attack? What if zombies attack? Your never 100% safe. With that being said, if you KNOW the guy next door eats people, then OC away. My point was a 1 year olds B-day party at (insert small residential neighborhood with zero crime) is substantially safer then walking to your car at 3am in down town Chicago (or many neighborhoods I could point out to you). It's merely discretion.

You can be exposed to the concept of carrying without slapping them in the face with the pistol. It's called conversation.... "hey guys we should go shooting sometime..." "OMG you have guns??" "Yes ma'am, in fact I usually carry everywhere I go..." and so on and so forth....

All I was saying is there's a thing called tact and sometimes is beneficial to use it sometimes. You can do anything you like, I was merely throwing an opinion since it was requested by the OP.

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You mean like waiting for someone kids to get smashed?

You don't realize the goal here is normalizing OC, part of that normalizing is actually OC'ing in all your daily activities legally allowed to do so.

Typical anti argument that exercising a lawfully protected right is somehow "slapping them in the face", countless conversations have been started because I OC everywhere.

Not exercising a right because you are afraid of others irrational fears isn't "tact".

Please keep throwing out your opinions.

eye95 said:

He is not saying that his kid's birthday party will be attacked, just that it is a real possibility.

I have lived in, by my best count, 13 different homes during my lifetime. Not one has had a kitchen fire. It is highly unlikely I will ever experience one. I still have fire extinguishers in the kitchens of both of my homes.

Someone will have a kitchen fire. Not if, but when. When he does, I hope he has a fire extinguisher.


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<o>

Click to expand...

+1

I'll ad that even if there was zero chances of me being robbed, attacked, beaten, stolen from by my fellow civilians, I would still exercise my right to openly bear arms. I am not a paranoid person grew up in bad neighborhoods realize that the chances I would be harmed by criminals even in so called bad neighborhoods is next to nill. It is a great way to make a statement on where you stand on your rights.

MyWifeSaidYes said:

How do you get from my hip-holstered handgun to "slapping them in the face"? I really don't get that.

Click to expand...

Becomes clearer when you follow his other posts.

Primus said:

First, can you quote a time that a meth head as ever attacked a children's birthday party? You kind of proved my point that you can what if any place to death. What if aliens attack? What if zombies attack? Your never 100% safe. With that being said, if you KNOW the guy next door eats people, then OC away. My point was a 1 year olds B-day party at (insert small residential neighborhood with zero crime) is substantially safer then walking to your car at 3am in down town Chicago (or many neighborhoods I could point out to you). It's merely discretion.

You can be exposed to the concept of carrying without slapping them in the face with the pistol. It's called conversation.... "hey guys we should go shooting sometime..." "OMG you have guns??" "Yes ma'am, in fact I usually carry everywhere I go..." and so on and so forth....

All I was saying is there's a thing called tact and sometimes is beneficial to use it sometimes. You can do anything you like, I was merely throwing an opinion since it was requested by the OP.

Click to expand...

http://www.khou.com/news/crime/Bond...cking-child-at-birthday-party--225430622.html

self preservation said:

http://www.khou.com/news/crime/Bond...cking-child-at-birthday-party--225430622.html

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Good attempt, but that wasn't a crack head attacking a random kids birthday party. It was a molester attacking a girl he knew. Also, on the topic of OCing, what your saying you needed your gun to shoot this guy? Good idea, so you'd go to jail with him.

Ohhh wait, suspect was a white dude, hell no you can't carry a gun to defend your daughter.[sarcasm]

Primus said:

Good attempt, but that wasn't a crack head attacking a random kids birthday party. It was a molester attacking a girl he knew. Also, on the topic of OCing, what your saying you needed your gun to shoot this guy? Good idea, so you'd go to jail with him.

Click to expand...

Sorry. I didn't know that an attacker must be a crack head as you say. If I ever need to use any type of force, I will make sure the attacker is currently high on crack. If not, I will just let him kill myself and/or others. I also didn't know that you couldn't fight back against a person that you know. What if I just know them by their first name or even a nickname, can I defend myself and others then or do I need to simply curl up in a ball and cry and let him do whatever he wants to do? And as far as me going to jail for stopping the rape of a child by using any type of force...you're right. I would have just closed the door and let him carry on with what he wanted to do with that innocent child. Oh if only Kentucky had a law(s) of some sort that would allow a person to use deadly force for this type of attack. Oh wait..We do!!! One of them is known as KRS 503.050 and a part of it reads "The use of deadly physical force by a defendant upon another person is justifiable under subsection (1) only when the defendant believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against death, serious physical injury, kidnapping, sexual intercourse compelled by force or threat, felony involving the use of force"

Good attempt yourself. But before you start spewing nonsense, you may want to do a little research before hand as to not make yourself look so foolish in future post. And God forbid I ever encounter a child being molested, I don't give a damn what any state or federal law says. The molester is going to have a bad day. I guess my convictions are just a little stronger than yours.

Primus said:

Good attempt, but that wasn't a crack head attacking a random kids birthday party. It was a molester attacking a girl he knew. Also, on the topic of OCing, what your saying you needed your gun to shoot this guy? Good idea, so you'd go to jail with him.

Click to expand...

Wow.

Choice of carry method is irrelevant, OC or CC.

Child is attacked and Primus doesn't want the bad guy to be shot?

Just...wow.

Primus, you say you carry a firearm. When, and on what, do you intend to use it? Paper targets at the range?

I honestly want to know.