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Thread: Advancing gun rights: common sense proposals

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Advancing gun rights: common sense proposals

    The legislature is meeting again this january, there are anti gun bills from last session that are still a threat this session,

    furthermore, there seems to be little effort to advance gun rights this session,

    however we cannot expect to maintain our current level of rights if we are focused only on defending what we already have, we need to go on the offensive legislation wise and make the anti gunners defend the status quo....

    furthermore, we still seem to be fighting over the same issues, we need bold new ideas to begin working towards, a long term idea is better because it will force the anti gun side to use what little resources they have comparatively speaking stopping our "extremist ideology" instead of advancing theirs.

    This legislative session (and the next couple ones after that) we should get some sypathetic eastern legislators to introduce legislation.....
    >eliminating the pistol registry
    >allowing CPL holders to bypass NICS check
    >shortening/eliminating the wait period, whichever is more politically feasible
    >expanded CPL reciprocity

    furthermore Jan Angel's likely to win this election, meaning the republicans with the majority coalition caucus have +2 in the senate. democrat Tim Sheldon is in a gun friendly district. furthermore Spokane senator Padden is an NRA A+ senator and he controls the law and justice committee.

    does anyone here think we can exert some effort and get some pro-gun bills passed and put the antis back on defense?

    there's some other grand ideas in my head, but they're long term and I'd rather discuss them another time.
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 11-07-2013 at 03:49 PM.
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    Regular Member Jamfish's Avatar
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    Lifting of the ban on SBRs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamfish View Post
    Lifting of the ban on SBRs.
    And suppressors.
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    Campaign Veteran slapmonkay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    And suppressors.
    You are allowed to own suppressors in WA.
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    i would also suggest seeing if penalties can be lowered .. many to infractions.

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    Regular Member Jamfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapmonkay View Post
    You are allowed to own suppressors in WA.
    Yup. We had the right to own, but not use (forget the reasoning behind that). Then in March 2011, bill 1016 finally passed the state senate allowing us to actually use them.
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    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
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    AFAIK, there was a recent bill to lift the ban on SBRs but I think it got stalled, we need to get that back up on the table again.

    I know WA follows the British legal tradition that anything not outlawed is legal, I still think it would be nice to get an RCW officially recognizing WA as an open carry in very explicit language. We still have rogue LEOs that ignore or twist even current caselaw that surrounds it and sometimes we even have AGs and staff who deny that WA is an open carry state. Though with the current governor and House make-up that might be hard to get through.

    It would be nice to see some RCWs with stiff penalties for these two actions:

    -taking long than 30 days to issue or deny a CPL
    -releasing CPL information to that public

    After watching that hearing that Gogodawgs attended with Pam Roach putting Pete Holmes in his place, I'm not so sure that the Seattle liberals won't try a stunt and release that info somehow to the press or to the public.

    I agree on getting rid of the pistol registry, but not sure if I am willing to trade something to get it.

    For that matter, I can't imagine how I'm willing to "trade" for anything. At this point we all need to recognize something, there is no more "compromise" or good faith bargaining anymore. We are dealing with people who will say and do anything to get anything they can, and will never stop pushing until every gun is banned in WA and the USA. People like Adam Kline who pretended to the media that he didn't realize that his "assault weapons bill" had the home inspection provision in it, even though he proposed that exact same thing 3 times over the last decade!

    I made a mistake thinking that Inslime might be better for us than McKenna, who I thought might go RINO on us and make a "deal" on gun laws in order to get his education agenda passed. Technically, I guess we'll never know what McKenna would have done but at this point after watching how Inslime has tried to screw us every way imaginable that he can, I am willing to admit I was most likely wrong. You hear that Eric? :P

    Going forward we can't play dumb games with giving concessions like what Gottlieb was trying to do with the pistol registry for HB1588.

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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    The legislature is meeting again this january, there are anti gun bills from last session that are still a threat this session,

    furthermore, there seems to be little effort to advance gun rights this session,

    however we cannot expect to maintain our current level of rights if we are focused only on defending what we already have, we need to go on the offensive legislation wise and make the anti gunners defend the status quo....

    furthermore, we still seem to be fighting over the same issues, we need bold new ideas to begin working towards, a long term idea is better because it will force the anti gun side to use what little resources they have comparatively speaking stopping our "extremist ideology" instead of advancing theirs.

    This legislative session (and the next couple ones after that) we should get some sypathetic eastern legislators to introduce legislation.....
    >eliminating the pistol registry
    >allowing CPL holders to bypass NICS check
    >shortening/eliminating the wait period, whichever is more politically feasible
    >expanded CPL reciprocity

    furthermore Jan Angel's likely to win this election, meaning the republicans with the majority coalition caucus have +2 in the senate. democrat Tim Sheldon is in a gun friendly district. furthermore Spokane senator Padden is an NRA A+ senator and he controls the law and justice committee.

    does anyone here think we can exert some effort and get some pro-gun bills passed and put the antis back on defense?

    there's some other grand ideas in my head, but they're long term and I'd rather discuss them another time.
    Good intentions but seriously behind the curve on getting a new bill drafted, reviewed by the CR and ready to drop on the first day of this short session. Committee days for the legislators are the 21,22nd I believe. You will need to have your legislator lined up, bill drafted and co-sponsors ready....
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpine View Post

    Going forward we can't play dumb games with giving concessions like what Gottlieb was trying to do with the pistol registry for HB1588.
    well you have to understand where gottlieb is coming from, Gottlieb believes that UBCs will become law because the idea is too popular, so his assumption is that UBCs will pass and the only question is how much can we get for them... he's on record as having said that. He's not an enemy of gun rights.


    there is much gun related stuff I'd like to see done, but we must keep the goal posts in sight, allies of the 2A now control one branch of the state government. that gives us leverage if we're willing to lobby to use it. even better, the wet dream of WA ceasefire will be punted to the ballot, meaning ceasefire will be focused on advertising their initiative.

    I say it's time we use this oppurtunity to take what we can get. I think the NICS bypass is feasible, so is the pistol registry.

    SBRs maybe. machine guns will be a no-go and criminal penalties for government officials will be a non starter.

    there is several other laws I'd like to see repealed, including the alien firearms license and the restrictions on canadians getting CPLs (if you have a visa you can get a AFL, which means you can get a CPL, but canadians uniquely require no visa to travel here, hence they cannot get a AFL or a CPL)

    I'm contacting my reps soon and my soon to be state senator Jan Angel once she's certified with a legislative measure I wrote that will provide for universal CCW reciprocity in Washington (a valid CPL issued by any state, DC or territory should be valid in WA)

    basically we need to push something, gun rights supporters can raise effective grassroots campaigns, anti gunners on the other hand have a small number of people with big money behind them. using only the NRA's legislative alert system we can organize an effective pro-gun campaign with relatively few resources, which will force the antis to either A)pay lobbyists to counter us or B) save their resources for 594.

    furthermore, the elections of this year have shown that people who tend to be anti-gun (liberals) are either losing or winning by less then two percentage points despite dumping large amounts of money. the pro-recall campaign in colorado was outspent 5-1 and won big. Cucinelli in Virginia was outspent 2 to 1 and lost by two points.

    What I'm saying is, we got an ability to push our own ideas while draining resources from the antis leading in to the election season for 594, and at less cost to us.

    so lets brainstorm some legislative ideas that we can reasonably pass and then get to work contacting reps and lobbying for them, and if anyone has some sway with Padden, lets get one of these ideas in the law and justice committee and at least get to a hearing.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jt59 View Post
    Good intentions but seriously behind the curve on getting a new bill drafted, reviewed by the CR and ready to drop on the first day of this short session. Committee days for the legislators are the 21,22nd I believe. You will need to have your legislator lined up, bill drafted and co-sponsors ready....
    problem is my current state senator will be out of office in december and the new one not until then.

    and the house is unlikely to act. so we need a state senator.

    I have one of my proposals already written.

    We're still two and a half months out from the beginning of the session. I'm seeing nothing scheduled this month for the L&J Committee.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member skeith5's Avatar
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    I'm out in Spokane now and active with the constitutional Republicans group. I'm supposed to be getting some introductions to the legislators out here soon, I will bring up new legislation and see if what they say.

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    Regular Member massivedesign's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    >allowing CPL holders to bypass NICS check

    This will happen this year via Bill 1839. There was a verbiage snafu when the Feds accepted WA as a NICS Alternative state. There is a slight revision to .090 that needs to happen to make it work. When I was at the Judiciary Meeting for background checks last month, this was brought up. The Judiciary said that this year 1839 will pass.
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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by massivedesign View Post
    This will happen this year via Bill 1839. There was a verbiage snafu when the Feds accepted WA as a NICS Alternative state. There is a slight revision to .090 that needs to happen to make it work. When I was at the Judiciary Meeting for background checks last month, this was brought up. The Judiciary said that this year 1839 will pass.
    excellent!
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    so here's my ccw reciprocity proposal

    Proposed CPL Reciprocity law

    The Washington State Visitorís Self Protection Act

    Be It Enacted by the State of Washington

    RCW 9.41.073 shall be amended to read as follows

    (1)(a) A person licensed to carry a pistol in a state the laws of which recognize and give effect in that state to a concealed pistol license issued under the laws of the state of Washington is authorized to carry a concealed pistol in this state if: under the laws of any other state or territory of the United States or the District of Columbia is authorized to carry a concealed pistol in this state, provided:

    (i) The licensing state does not issue concealed pistol licenses to persons under twenty-one years of age; and
    (i)The Individual in possession of the concealed pistol license from another state, territory, or the District of Columbia is at least twenty one (21) years of age

    (ii) The licensing state requires mandatory fingerprint-based background checks of criminal and mental health history for all persons who apply for a concealed pistol license.
    (ii)The person in possession of a concealed pistol license from another state, territory, or the District of Columbia may legally possess firearms and ammunition under the laws of this state

    (b) This section applies to a license holder from another state , territory, or the District of Columbia only while the license holder is not a resident of this state. A license holder from another state, territory, or the district of columbia must carry the handgun in compliance with the laws of this state.

    (2) The attorney general shall periodically on the 15th of January of each year publish a list of states the laws of which recognize and give effect in that state to a concealed pistol license issued under the laws of the state of Washington and which meet the requirements of subsection (1)(a)(i) and (ii) of this section. states which recognize the concealed pistol licenses of this state.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member Batousaii's Avatar
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    Washington state firearms freedom act

    HB1371 : Washington state firearms freedom act

    - Of course i think this should include Full Auto Rifle or Handgun, SBR, SBS, AOW too.
    - We also need to pursue the federal laws and get the second amendment separated with immunity from the commerce clause via "Shall not be infringed"... That by itself would repeal and strike down almost every federal firearm law.
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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batousaii View Post
    - We also need to pursue the federal laws and get the second amendment separated with immunity from the commerce clause via "Shall not be infringed"... That by itself would repeal and strike down almost every federal firearm law.
    What I've never understood...a constitutional amendment modifies the constitution, right? If an older part of the constitution winds up in conflict with a later amendment, the amendment wins. But when the commerce clause (last modification prior to the 2nd amendment being added) conflicts with the 2nd amendment...the clause wins why exactly?

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    Regular Member Batousaii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    What I've never understood...a constitutional amendment modifies the constitution, right? If an older part of the constitution winds up in conflict with a later amendment, the amendment wins. But when the commerce clause (last modification prior to the 2nd amendment being added) conflicts with the 2nd amendment...the clause wins why exactly?
    Never understood this myself.
    ~ Also note, the second amendment, being short as it is, is one of the few places where something is bluntly stated as don't mess with this i.e. "Shall not be infringed". To that ends, why then would the commerce clause carry any weight over the rights to purchase, own or carry arms for any free man/woman. I honestly believe that if pursued properly, this could be the winning blow.... of course once that blow is dealt many cooperate entities that profit on the struggle itself (NRA etc.) would have to make extreme changes to how they make money, or would lose massive amounts of revenue, and thus wont actually support a winning blow because it's more profitable to maintain an atmosphere of panic. Until we get an entity that 100% pursues a winning strategy, knowing that the win would sacrifice it's own livelihood, and is willing, accepting and prepared to do so.... we wont actually ever see the true liberation of the second amendment...
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    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
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    Here's an idea. Florida recently expanded their defense laws to allow warning shots. We should get that passed here. That would show Sherry Appleton a thing or two.
    Last edited by Alpine; 11-09-2013 at 04:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
    Here's an idea. Florida recently expanded their defense laws to allow warning shots. We should get that passed here. That would show Sherry Appleton a thing or two.
    But only with a SxS shotgun ala Joe Biden

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    Regular Member Batousaii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Dr View Post
    But only with a SxS shotgun ala Joe Biden
    Hillarious
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
    Here's an idea. Florida recently expanded their defense laws to allow warning shots. We should get that passed here. That would show Sherry Appleton a thing or two.
    Yes, it's an idea. It's also a TERRIBLE idea. What problem are you trying to address with this proposal?

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    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    I think we should also place an exception on who may apply for a CPL or carry on an out of state carry permit if they are 18-20 and are members or veterans of the Armed Forces. I think it is pretty ridiculous how young adults can carry a weapon or have their finger on "the button" while on duty, but once they are out of uniform are defenseless. I think the rules for foreigners could also be revised to allow anyone with a firearms license from their country of residence can apply for a WA CPL.

    I would like to see something like a "firearm's freedom act" in WA, but I think that is a pipe dream. Getting rid of the pistol registry I think is feasible if we can prove that its costs vs. benefits are out of sync.

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    Quote Originally Posted by acmariner99 View Post
    I think we should also place an exception on who may apply for a CPL or carry on an out of state carry permit if they are 18-20 and are members or veterans of the Armed Forces. I think it is pretty ridiculous how young adults can carry a weapon or have their finger on "the button" while on duty, but once they are out of uniform are defenseless. I think the rules for foreigners could also be revised to allow anyone with a firearms license from their country of residence can apply for a WA CPL.

    I would like to see something like a "firearm's freedom act" in WA, but I think that is a pipe dream. Getting rid of the pistol registry I think is feasible if we can prove that its costs vs. benefits are out of sync.
    The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. The gov't has no right to dictate the manner in which I carry. Anti's lack any compromising attitudes, therefore, we cannot compromise either.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    The legislature is meeting again this january, there are anti gun bills from last session that are still a threat this session,

    furthermore, there seems to be little effort to advance gun rights this session,

    however we cannot expect to maintain our current level of rights if we are focused only on defending what we already have, we need to go on the offensive legislation wise and make the anti gunners defend the status quo....

    furthermore, we still seem to be fighting over the same issues, we need bold new ideas to begin working towards, a long term idea is better because it will force the anti gun side to use what little resources they have comparatively speaking stopping our "extremist ideology" instead of advancing theirs.

    This legislative session (and the next couple ones after that) we should get some sypathetic eastern legislators to introduce legislation.....
    >eliminating the pistol registry
    >allowing CPL holders to bypass NICS check
    >shortening/eliminating the wait period, whichever is more politically feasible
    >expanded CPL reciprocity

    furthermore Jan Angel's likely to win this election, meaning the republicans with the majority coalition caucus have +2 in the senate. democrat Tim Sheldon is in a gun friendly district. furthermore Spokane senator Padden is an NRA A+ senator and he controls the law and justice committee.

    does anyone here think we can exert some effort and get some pro-gun bills passed and put the antis back on defense?

    there's some other grand ideas in my head, but they're long term and I'd rather discuss them another time.
    I see a lot of talk about P4P, but very little in the way of "gun rights".

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyb View Post
    The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. The gov't has no right to dictate the manner in which I carry. Anti's lack any compromising attitudes, therefore, we cannot compromise either.
    wrong, Antis "compromise" frequently. they want full registration and if they get universal background checks they're happy as a first step. you're not going to eliminate every law regulating firearms overnight, we need to be willing to be just as patient but actually work towards loosening and eliminating laws...
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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