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Thread: Marbut, MSSA v. Holder letter to SCOTUS, "The natives are beyond restless."

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    Marbut, MSSA v. Holder letter to SCOTUS, "The natives are beyond restless."

    "The natives are beyond restless. They are at the stage of collecting torches and pitchforks and preparing
    to head for the castle gates en masse. [ ... ] Frankly, the working people of America are fed up with an overbearing federal government bent on regulating everyone and everything. [ ... ] President John F. Kennedy informed us, “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable.”
    http://www.wnd.com/files/2013/11/MontanaLetter22.pdf
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    I like GARY ....

    But the notion that a court is bound by a higher court decision is not based on law ... its based on made-up law .. and shaky at best


    So, if the guberment wants to round up the Japanese Americans again they could? Because the SCOTUS ruling giving two thumbs up to this has never been overturned by SCOTUS.

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    Marbut, MSSA v. Holder letter to SCOTUS, "The natives are beyond restless."

    Great analysis by this Montana lawyer. I hope it holds sway, but fear it won't.

    P.S. The best part is: "President John F. Kennedy informed us, 'Those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable.'”

    Here's to the Montana law and this letter effecting a peaceful revolution in the way we think about the power of the federal government!


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    Last edited by eye95; 11-09-2013 at 09:54 PM.

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    A superbly written essay. Wickard has "needed to go" for a long time now. Raich only added fuel to the Wickard fire.

    One of my favorite lines ever penned by a Supreme Court Justice is this one from Justice Thomas in his dissent in Raich:
    Respondents Diane Monson and Angel Raich use marijuana that has never been bought or sold, that has never crossed state lines, and that has had no demonstrable effect on the national market for marijuana. If Congress can regulate this under the Commerce Clause, then it can regulate virtually anything–and the Federal Government is no longer one of limited and enumerated powers.
    I hope I live to see the day that SCOTUS grows some balls and reels the Feds in. I fear I shan't.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianB View Post
    I hope I live to see the day that SCOTUS grows some balls and reels the Feds in. I fear I shan't.
    I watched a TV newsreader show the other day with the sound off and closed captioning on, displaying the commentary as a text crawl - that displayed Feral Government. Here, I imagine the robot as smarter than the reporter, editor and newsreader.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Isn't it amazing that the leftist JFK, would be considered a hard right winger even by the GOP by today's standards?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Isn't it amazing that the leftist JFK, would be considered a hard right winger even by the GOP by today's standards?
    By the standards of JFK's time, Goldwater's time, todays GOP is left wing progressive. It's too bad that that word, progressive, wasn't then part of the jargon.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    By the standards of JFK's time, Goldwater's time, todays GOP is left wing progressive. It's too bad that that word, progressive, wasn't then part of the jargon.
    It was it had fallen out of favor, because of the horrors of the progressives like T. Roosevelt and Wilson.

    Like liberal though the word progressive has been hijacked by socialist baffoons.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    The Republican Party being conservative and the Democrat party being liberal is a relative new development. In Kennedy's and Goldwater's day, both parties had large numbers of both left-leaning and right-leaning members. It wasn't really ideology that separated the parties so much as it was just politicians belonging to a party because of circumstance.


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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    The Republican Party being conservative and the Democrat party being liberal is a relative new development. In Kennedy's and Goldwater's day, both parties had large numbers of both left-leaning and right-leaning members. It wasn't really ideology that separated the parties so much as it was just politicians belonging to a party because of circumstance.


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    Depends on how you use conservative too (not taking from your point just adding my two cents).

    I think personal conservatism is great, political conservatism has not had a great history of preserving liberty. The Tories where the conservatives of the colonies, many of the "Federalists" where from this school of thought.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Rhetorical propaganda is accusatory, it tries to convince us of what the subject is, rather than ever mentioning what the subject is not.

    Compare and contrast; liberal, conservative, progressive. Define the terms so that they are unambiguous.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Depends on how you use conservative too (not taking from your point just adding my two cents).

    I think personal conservatism is great, political conservatism has not had a great history of preserving liberty. The Tories where the conservatives of the colonies, many of the "Federalists" where from this school of thought.
    I meant the terms as most people use them and understand them in relation to the two major parties. However, as another poster has made a small stink about definitions: Conservatives prefer smaller government, believing that government is much more likely the cause of problems than the solution. Liberals prefer larger government, believing that government is the solution to almost all problems and creates none that it can't solve with more government.

    Prior to Goldwater and LBJ, neither party was conservative or liberal. Both parties had huge factions of both ideologies and everything in between. Starting with Goldwater, and accelerating under Reagan (who won over many conservative Democrats), conservatives started leaving the Democrat party in droves, most becoming Republicans--resulting in the polarization of the parties (a good thing, IMO).

    Prior to the polarization, folks joined parties based on alliances, family history, good ol' boy networking, and almost any reason other than ideology.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Rhetorical propaganda is accusatory, it tries to convince us of what the subject is, rather than ever mentioning what the subject is not.

    Compare and contrast; liberal, conservative, progressive. Define the terms so that they are unambiguous.
    Since you failed to define "rhetorical," "propaganda," "accusatory," or even "define" or "is," your post is ambiguous.

    Unless folks are being contentious for contentiousness' sake, they knew what I meant by the terms.

    Moving on to talk with folks who would like to discuss the point I raised and not play parsing games.


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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    It was it had fallen out of favor, because of the horrors of the progressives like T. Roosevelt and Wilson.

    Like liberal though the word progressive has been hijacked by socialist baffoons.
    virtually no one outside of a few extremist camps considers anything done by Roosevelt to be "horror".....
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I meant the terms as most people use them and understand them in relation to the two major parties. However, as another poster has made a small stink about definitions: Conservatives prefer smaller government, believing that government is much more likely the cause of problems than the solution. Liberals prefer larger government, believing that government is the solution to almost all problems and creates none that it can't solve with more government.

    Prior to Goldwater and LBJ, neither party was conservative or liberal. Both parties had huge factions of both ideologies and everything in between. Starting with Goldwater, and accelerating under Reagan (who won over many conservative Democrats), conservatives started leaving the Democrat party in droves, most becoming Republicans--resulting in the polarization of the parties (a good thing, IMO).

    Prior to the polarization, folks joined parties based on alliances, family history, good ol' boy networking, and almost any reason other than ideology.


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    That was my definition of conservative too for a long time. I finally realized though that for many (not implying you) and historically it means more than small government, or fiscally conservative, it means continuing a tradition or status quo, the current governments status quo is horrendous, and we find self proclaimed conservatives like Gingrich talk about what a great man FDR was.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    virtually no one outside of a few extremist camps considers anything done by Roosevelt to be "horror".....
    LOL...funny Erik, ad hominem by unsubstantiated association. If it is "extreme" to learn history and how these asshats have destroyed liberty, killed thousands of foreigners in imperialistic motives, increased federal power, helped destroy the laws that bound their position, if it is extreme to see this as a horror and a crime against liberty, that's me.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    I believe that conservative, in the political sense, means cherishing and protecting what good is in the status quo and recognizing the failures that brought US to the status quo. I believe that progressive, in the political sense, means moving on (wjere have we seen that before?), willy-nilly anything is better than the status quo.

    I believe that a conservative believes the law the best guide and protection from evil men. I believe that a progressive believes the law more evil than the saints that made it and that an enlightened leader is better than evil law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    That was my definition of conservative too for a long time. I finally realized though that for many (not implying you) and historically it means more than small government, or fiscally conservative, it means continuing a tradition or status quo, the current governments status quo is horrendous, and we find self proclaimed conservatives like Gingrich talk about what a great man FDR was.
    Not to sound rude, but I wasn't using your definition. I was using the definition most everyone reading my post would use.

    It's OK for you to have your own set of definitions, but it does hamper communication. Please assume, unless I state specifically otherwise, that I am using terms as they are currently widely believed to mean.


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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Not to sound rude, but I wasn't using your definition. I was using the definition most everyone reading my post would use.

    It's OK for you to have your own set of definitions, but it does hamper communication. Please assume, unless I state specifically otherwise, that I am using terms as they are currently widely believed to mean.


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    Don't think you are being rude, just having a discussion.

    It's like the word anarchy, many insist on using it wrong.

    The problem I see it is that many self called conservatives themselves don't use your definition of it ( a definition I know many conservatives do use). Many do use it in the more traditional sense and expand it to religion etc.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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