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Thread: Gonzaga University students could face expulsion for gun

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    Gonzaga University students could face expulsion for gun


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    Campus Security officers told the roommates that they violated GU policy and took the pistol. They also confiscated a shotgun the roommates had in their apartment.


    These guys any relation to Joe Biden? lol

    Its BS of course ...

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Gonzaga is a privately university, they have a right to contract with their students and expel for violations.

    BYU is a privately owned school and they will expel students for off campus consumption of alcohol, tobacco, or for pre marital sex even if they're not Mormon because students signed an honor pledge to attend the private school.

    Same deal here, the school is a private entity, they can choose who they admit and don't and can terminate student enrollment for non compliance with the agreement they signed.


    That being said, a private entity does not have the right to confiscate private property, those students should go down to the police and report their guns stolen and ask that charges be filed against the security officers
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 11-08-2013 at 09:08 PM.
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    Can enforce on off campus housing? Like mcbeth said, its bs, of course

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattinWA View Post
    Can enforce on off campus housing? Like mcbeth said, its bs, of course
    It's campus owned housing.

    I would have to see their handbook to see what exactly they can and cannot do. But they can in fact ban gun possession and expel you for possessing, it's freedom of contract, you're free not to accept their service if you don't want to abide by their terms. Do their terms include no guns in university owned apartments? Maybe.... But I would need a copy of the student handbook to know that.
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    I saw a story on tv, where they interviewed a gonzaga higher up. He said the policy was to make the environment safer for the students. I bet the six time felon who came knockin agrees with campus policy, and after this news story breaks, all the future felons will know where to rob safely.

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattinWA View Post
    I saw a story on tv, where they interviewed a gonzaga higher up. He said the policy was to make the environment safer for the students. I bet the six time felon who came knockin agrees with campus policy, and after this news story breaks, all the future felons will know where to rob safely.
    I want to know the legal authority to take their guns. To me it's cut and dried theft of a firearm.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattinWA View Post
    ….a gonzaga higher up. He said the policy was to make the environment safer for the students. ....
    Maybe this GU higher up had recently transferred from Penn State???
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    I want to know the legal authority to take their guns. To me it's cut and dried theft of a firearm.
    Trying (only for the sake of exercising my legal mind) to put the best possible legal light on this - the gun was merelyt seized as "evidence" to be presented in some sort of disciplinary hearing that will lead to them being kicked out of school-owned housing and/or the school itself.

    If the gun is not returned to them then yes, you are correct that it is theft.

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Trying (only for the sake of exercising my legal mind) to put the best possible legal light on this - the gun was merelyt seized as "evidence" to be presented in some sort of disciplinary hearing that will lead to them being kicked out of school-owned housing and/or the school itself.

    If the gun is not returned to them then yes, you are correct that it is theft.

    stay safe.
    In washington we have a specific law on theft of a firearm, regardless of a firearms value, stealing a firearm is a class B felony. I don't believe they have the right to take it even for "evidence" especially since the disciplinary board is not a court of law, security is not police officers, and the student honor code is not recognized law applicable to the public.

    Edit rcw 9a.56.300 is a cite on the stealing a firearm charge.

    I know what you're saying skid. I just think the school has no authority to do it period... Like I said, they signed an agreement that likely contained a no firearm clause, but that's a civil matter. Taking the firearm is a criminal matter IMO
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 11-08-2013 at 11:11 PM.
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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Did they have a warrant? Sound like illegal search, and seizure to me.

    PS. the editing/grammar in the story is horrendous:
    "GU leaders said the students violated a policy all students show know about when living in a school owned apartment. "

    "University leaders said the students should have know about the weapon policy. Leaders also said the policy is common across the country."
    Last edited by golddigger14s; 11-08-2013 at 11:18 PM.
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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    Did they have a warrant? Sound like illegal search, and seizure to me.

    PS. the editing/grammar in the story is horrendous:
    "GU leaders said the students violated a policy all students show know about when living in a school owned apartment. "

    "University leaders said the students should have know about the weapon policy. Leaders also said the policy is common across the country."
    I find the use of the word "apartment" in this context curious. Maybe Im just arguing semantics, but to me an apartment would imply a leased residence where the lessee has a property interest and is subject to te residential landlord tenant act. Versus a dormitory where one simply occupies the space while enrolled.

    Assuming the property is subject to the tenant act and the security entered without permission the security guards did not violate the students constitutional rights, they can't becuase they're not agents of the government, instead the committed the crime of trespass and residential burglary...
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    I find the use of the word "apartment" in this context curious. Maybe Im just arguing semantics, but to me an apartment would imply a leased residence where the lessee has a property interest and is subject to te residential landlord tenant act. Versus a dormitory where one simply occupies the space while enrolled.

    Assuming the property is subject to the tenant act and the security entered without permission the security guards did not violate the students constitutional rights, they can't becuase they're not agents of the government, instead the committed the crime of trespass and residential burglary...
    I agree with ENM on this, my understanding was the apartments were not on campus it was an apartment building that Gonzaga rented to students. Even if it was on campus the university has no authority to confiscate private property. As far as I know the security personnel are not sworn peace officers. Gonzaga is a private university not a state institution and thus they do not have the protection that a state institution would have. Think about it like this if your landlord had a written policy against firearms and discovered that you had them could they then enter your apartment and take your property. I am hoping these two guys get a free education somewhere else on Gonzaga.
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    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    It's campus owned housing.

    I would have to see their handbook to see what exactly they can and cannot do. But they can in fact ban gun possession and expel you for possessing, it's freedom of contract, you're free not to accept their service if you don't want to abide by their terms. Do their terms include no guns in university owned apartments? Maybe.... But I would need a copy of the student handbook to know that.

    Handbook: http://www.gonzaga.edu/Student+Life/...nteractive.pdf

    see page 20
    Possession, use, display, sale or exchange of weapons at any location on campus, including University residential
    facilities and privately-owned vehicles, is prohibited. The term “weapon” means any object designed to propel an object,
    inflict a wound, cause injury, incapacitate, damage property or cause a reasonable fear of such, and includes, but is not
    limited to, all firearms, pellet/BB/air guns, paintball guns, home-manufactured cannons or explosive devices, bows and
    arrows, slingshots, clubs, martial arts devices, switchblades or otherwise-illegal knives or knives with a blade longer than
    three inches (with the exception of kitchen knives in our University homes and apartments). Replica guns and other
    simulated weapons are included within this policy. Objects otherwise not considered weapons, and knives with blades
    less than three inches, may be included within this policy if used as a weapon. Fireworks, flammables, explosives and
    chemicals of an explosive and/or flammable nature are also prohibited.
    Exceptions to this policy may be authorized by the Director of Campus Public Safety and Security. The University
    retains the right to search persons, possessions and bags and privately-owned vehicles on University property, and to
    confiscate, retain and dispose of/destroy all items covered by this policy regardless of value or ownership. Law
    enforcement may be contacted for some violations of this policy.

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Starks View Post
    The University
    retains the right to search persons, possessions and bags and privately-owned vehicles on University property, and to
    confiscate, retain and dispose of/destroy all items covered by this policy regardless of value or ownership. Law
    enforcement may be contacted for some violations of this policy.
    That's a hell of a clause. But just because they say they can do it doesn't make it true. I could wear a t-shirt that says something similar, but it wouldn't save me from robbery charges if I actually did such a thing, even to someone who did read my shirt.

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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Starks View Post
    Handbook: http://www.gonzaga.edu/Student+Life/...nteractive.pdf

    see page 20
    Possession, use, display, sale or exchange of weapons at any location on campus, including University residential
    facilities and privately-owned vehicles, is prohibited. The term “weapon” means any object designed to propel an object,
    inflict a wound, cause injury, incapacitate, damage property or cause a reasonable fear of such, and includes, but is not
    limited to, all firearms, pellet/BB/air guns, paintball guns, home-manufactured cannons or explosive devices, bows and
    arrows, slingshots, clubs, martial arts devices, switchblades or otherwise-illegal knives or knives with a blade longer than
    three inches (with the exception of kitchen knives in our University homes and apartments). Replica guns and other
    simulated weapons are included within this policy. Objects otherwise not considered weapons, and knives with blades
    less than three inches, may be included within this policy if used as a weapon. Fireworks, flammables, explosives and
    chemicals of an explosive and/or flammable nature are also prohibited.
    Exceptions to this policy may be authorized by the Director of Campus Public Safety and Security. The University
    retains the right to search persons, possessions and bags and privately-owned vehicles on University property, and to
    confiscate, retain and dispose of/destroy all items covered by this policy regardless of value or ownership. Law
    enforcement may be contacted for some violations of this policy.
    Anything in these "policies" found to be illegal would be null and void. Any person acting on such illegal provisions would be committing a crime I'm fairly certain.
    Armed and annoyingly well informed!

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    Eugene Volokh [Esq] on Gonzaga Students Facing Expulsion for Legally Possessing Guns

    "As I read the policy, it applies only to those residential facilities that are “on campus.” (Given that “privately-owned vehicles” must refer only to those that are “on campus,” I infer that “University residential facilities” likewise refers only to on-campus facilities, rather than expanding what counts as on-campus to include all University-owned facilities.)"

    http://www.volokh.com/2013/11/08/gon...ed-apartments/
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    That's a hell of a clause. But just because they say they can do it doesn't make it true. I could wear a t-shirt that says something similar, but it wouldn't save me from robbery charges if I actually did such a thing, even to someone who did read my shirt.
    Bingo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    Any person acting on such illegal provisions would be committing a crime I'm fairly certain.
    Please cite to your law, IAW OCDO Rule (5). One gains standing to appeal only on wrongful conviction.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Please cite to your law, IAW OCDO Rule (5). One gains standing to appeal only on wrongful conviction.
    I dont follow....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Please cite to your law, IAW OCDO Rule (5). One gains standing to appeal only on wrongful conviction.
    Quote Originally Posted by MattinWA View Post
    I dont follow....
    What crime, precisely cited, is it to act on an "illegal provision."
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    "Shame on gonzaga! Stealing firearms is a serious crime!"

    Protest sign

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    What crime, precisely cited, is it to act on an "illegal provision."
    Theft of a firearm(s)
    in this instance
    Last edited by MattinWA; 11-09-2013 at 10:24 AM.

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    What crime, precisely cited, is it to act on an "illegal provision."
    Gonzaga is a private college, in Washington private guards cannot be sworn as peace officers, hence they have no qualified immunity. furthermore when a police officer enforces illegal laws or violates civil rights, it generally (but not always) is a civil tort against the government.

    Gonzaga's guards have none of that, when they screw up and violate someone's "rights" they're committing crimes against the person they violate.

    RCW 9A.56.300
    Theft of a firearm.

    (1) A person is guilty of theft of a firearm if he or she commits a theft of any firearm.

    (2) This section applies regardless of the value of the firearm taken in the theft.

    (3) Each firearm taken in the theft under this section is a separate offense.

    (4) The definition of "theft" and the defense allowed against the prosecution for theft under RCW 9A.56.020 shall apply to the crime of theft of a firearm.

    (5) As used in this section, "firearm" means any firearm as defined in RCW 9.41.010.

    (6) Theft of a firearm is a class B felony.
    the guards committed two class B felonies...

    this is not an academic discussion, from the Spokane newspaper (the Spokesman-Review)

    http://www.spokesman.com/stories/201...ith-gun-which/
    The officers confiscated McIntosh’s Glock and Fagan’s shotgun, which he uses for hunting and sport shooting. The guns still haven’t been returned to the men, and the two reported them stolen to Spokane police.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Starks View Post
    Handbook: http://www.gonzaga.edu/Student+Life/...nteractive.pdf

    see page 20
    Possession, use, display, sale or exchange of weapons at any location on campus, including University residential
    facilities and privately-owned vehicles, is prohibited. The term “weapon” means any object designed to propel an object,
    inflict a wound, cause injury, incapacitate, damage property or cause a reasonable fear of such, and includes, but is not
    limited to, all firearms, pellet/BB/air guns, paintball guns, home-manufactured cannons or explosive devices, bows and
    arrows, slingshots, clubs, martial arts devices, switchblades or otherwise-illegal knives or knives with a blade longer than
    three inches (with the exception of kitchen knives in our University homes and apartments). Replica guns and other
    simulated weapons are included within this policy. Objects otherwise not considered weapons, and knives with blades
    less than three inches, may be included within this policy if used as a weapon. Fireworks, flammables, explosives and
    chemicals of an explosive and/or flammable nature are also prohibited.
    Exceptions to this policy may be authorized by the Director of Campus Public Safety and Security. The University
    retains the right to search persons, possessions and bags and privately-owned vehicles on University property, and to
    confiscate, retain and dispose of/destroy all items covered by this policy regardless of value or ownership. Law
    enforcement may be contacted for some violations of this policy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Please cite to your law, IAW OCDO Rule (5). One gains standing to appeal only on wrongful conviction.

    Can the Court Enforce a Divisible Legal Part of the Contract If a Contract Is Illegal?

    Well in Washington state, here are but a few possibilities for crimes committed from illegally enforcing provisions of an invalid contract (in this case, the above listed policy)...

    RCW 9A.52.025
    Residential burglary.

    RCW 9A.56.030
    Theft in the first degree.

    RCW 9A.56.040
    Theft in the second degree.

    RCW 9A.56.050
    Theft in the third degree.

    RCW 9A.56.200
    Robbery in the first degree.

    RCW 9A.56.210
    Robbery in the second degree.

    RCW 9A.56.300
    Theft of a firearm.

    RCW 9A.56.310
    Possessing a stolen firearm.
    Armed and annoyingly well informed!

    There are two constants when dealing with liberals:
    1) Liberals never quit until they are satisfied.
    2) Liberals are never satisfied.

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