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Gonzaga University students could face expulsion for gun

EMNofSeattle

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
3,670
Location
S. Kitsap, Washington state
What crime, precisely cited, is it to act on an "illegal provision."

Gonzaga is a private college, in Washington private guards cannot be sworn as peace officers, hence they have no qualified immunity. furthermore when a police officer enforces illegal laws or violates civil rights, it generally (but not always) is a civil tort against the government.

Gonzaga's guards have none of that, when they screw up and violate someone's "rights" they're committing crimes against the person they violate.

RCW 9A.56.300
Theft of a firearm.

(1) A person is guilty of theft of a firearm if he or she commits a theft of any firearm.

(2) This section applies regardless of the value of the firearm taken in the theft.

(3) Each firearm taken in the theft under this section is a separate offense.

(4) The definition of "theft" and the defense allowed against the prosecution for theft under RCW 9A.56.020 shall apply to the crime of theft of a firearm.

(5) As used in this section, "firearm" means any firearm as defined in RCW 9.41.010.

(6) Theft of a firearm is a class B felony.

the guards committed two class B felonies...

this is not an academic discussion, from the Spokane newspaper (the Spokesman-Review)

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2013/nov/09/gonzaga-students-deter-break-in-with-gun-which/
The officers confiscated McIntosh’s Glock and Fagan’s shotgun, which he uses for hunting and sport shooting. The guns still haven’t been returned to the men, and the two reported them stolen to Spokane police.
 

Grim_Night

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
776
Location
Pierce County, Washington
Handbook: http://www.gonzaga.edu/Student+Life...udent-Handbook-FINAL-Document-Interactive.pdf

see page 20
Possession, use, display, sale or exchange of weapons at any location on campus, including University residential
facilities and privately-owned vehicles, is prohibited. The term “weapon” means any object designed to propel an object,
inflict a wound, cause injury, incapacitate, damage property or cause a reasonable fear of such, and includes, but is not
limited to, all firearms, pellet/BB/air guns, paintball guns, home-manufactured cannons or explosive devices, bows and
arrows, slingshots, clubs, martial arts devices, switchblades or otherwise-illegal knives or knives with a blade longer than
three inches (with the exception of kitchen knives in our University homes and apartments). Replica guns and other
simulated weapons are included within this policy. Objects otherwise not considered weapons, and knives with blades
less than three inches, may be included within this policy if used as a weapon. Fireworks, flammables, explosives and
chemicals of an explosive and/or flammable nature are also prohibited.
Exceptions to this policy may be authorized by the Director of Campus Public Safety and Security. The University
retains the right to search persons, possessions and bags and privately-owned vehicles on University property, and to
confiscate, retain and dispose of/destroy all items covered by this policy regardless of value or ownership. Law
enforcement may be contacted for some violations of this policy.

Please cite to your law, IAW OCDO Rule (5). One gains standing to appeal only on wrongful conviction.


Can the Court Enforce a Divisible Legal Part of the Contract If a Contract Is Illegal?

Well in Washington state, here are but a few possibilities for crimes committed from illegally enforcing provisions of an invalid contract (in this case, the above listed policy)...

RCW 9A.52.025
Residential burglary.

RCW 9A.56.030
Theft in the first degree.

RCW 9A.56.040
Theft in the second degree.

RCW 9A.56.050
Theft in the third degree.

RCW 9A.56.200
Robbery in the first degree.

RCW 9A.56.210
Robbery in the second degree.

RCW 9A.56.300
Theft of a firearm.

RCW 9A.56.310
Possessing a stolen firearm.
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
Gonzaga is a private college, in Washington private guards cannot be sworn as peace officers, hence they have no qualified immunity. furthermore when a police officer enforces illegal laws or violates civil rights, it generally (but not always) is a civil tort against the government.

Gonzaga's guards have none of that, when they screw up and violate someone's "rights" they're committing crimes against the person they violate.



the guards committed two class B felonies...

this is not an academic discussion, from the Spokane newspaper (the Spokesman-Review)

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2013/nov/09/gonzaga-students-deter-break-in-with-gun-which/

The police will do nothing I imagine. Gun owners=evil people who have no rights.

Lawsuit to recover costs + damages
 

Grim_Night

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
776
Location
Pierce County, Washington
What are the legal elements of the crime of theft, in Washington State statutes in particular, AND in general jurisprudence? You may start with the general principle of actus non facit reum nisi mens sit rea.

Still none of these lawyer-never-bees have cited a statute. The law is an ass that lawyers ride to work, don't try to be one, you're not smart enough.

please reread the recent posts :cool:
 
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MattinWA

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Messages
278
Location
Spokane Washington
The elements of the crime of theft in this jurisdiction, not Washington State, are apparent here; 1)Intent (mens rea), 2)removal (actus reus), 3)conversion, 4)permanence. And I'm not even a wanna-be jackass.

But this is washington state, ride your ass somewhere else
where you live it would be legal for me to break into my tenants house and remove their firearms if I intended to give them back, is that really what you're advocating?
If the gov cant legally go into homes (yet) and seize firearms, what makes you think a private company can? I fail to see why this is so difficult for you to grasp, I tried typing very slowly for u ;)

If you are not a wanna be jackass, would that then make you a full time jackass?
 
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MattinWA

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Messages
278
Location
Spokane Washington
Theft" means:**** (a) To wrongfully obtain or exert unauthorized control over the property or services of another or the value thereof, with intent to deprive him or her of such property or services; or**** (b) By color or aid of deception to obtain control over the property or services of another or the value thereof, with intent to deprive him or her of such property or services; or**** (c) To appropriate lost or misdelivered property or services of another, or the value thereof, with intent to deprive him or her of such property or services.****

Theft

calling us jackasses is not needed, since it would appear that u sir, dont know of what u speak

dont worry I am above tattling and trying to enforce forum rules
 
Last edited:

MattinWA

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Messages
278
Location
Spokane Washington
Theft of a firearm.

(1) A person is guilty of theft of a firearm if he or she commits a theft of any firearm.**** (2) This section applies regardless of the value of the firearm taken in the theft.**** (3) Each firearm taken in the theft under this section is a separate offense.**** (4) The definition of "theft" and the defense allowed against the prosecution for theft under RCW*9A.56.020*shall apply to the crime of theft of a firearm.**** (5) As used in this section, "firearm" means any firearm as defined in RCW*9.41.010.**** (6) Theft of a firearm is a class B felony.[1995 c 129 § 10 (Initiative Measure No. 159); 1994 sp.s. c 7 § 432.]

Lawyerboy wonder, read very slowly. Do you see where a private company is exempt from state law? No? Weird...

Sounds like your the one who needs to cite how this wouldn't be theft, as we have, repeatedly, cited how it is theft.

why dont you do what you are screaming at us to, and cite how you are right.

put your money where you mouth is, big boy, or shut said mouth.
 
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MattinWA

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Messages
278
Location
Spokane Washington
My "lawyer wantabe jackass" and I are going to gonzaga now with signage, any patriots are invited to attend.
 
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EMNofSeattle

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
3,670
Location
S. Kitsap, Washington state
My "lawyer wantabe jackass" and I are going to gonzaga now with signage, any patriots are invited to attend.

I'd come, but I'm kinda 350 miles away over yonder, over the river and through the woods in western WA. Good luck. But nightmare would like to warn you the guards can just take the signs, it's not theft
 

MattinWA

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Messages
278
Location
Spokane Washington
I'd come, but I'm kinda 350 miles away over yonder, over the river and through the woods in western WA. Good luck. But nightmare would like to warn you the guards can just take the signs, it's not theft

The guards are spineless, they wait until u are not around to thief your property.
 

Difdi

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
987
Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
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MattinWA

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Messages
278
Location
Spokane Washington
So my one man protest was interesting yesterday.

I arrived In The gonzaga area around 2:50 pm, parked my car on a side street, then proceeded to the main road through the school with my sign, which read... "SHAME on Gonzaga" one side, and "firearm theft is a crime" on the other. I held my sign on Cincinnati for traffic for a few minutes, when I noticed a large amount of traffic (foot and car) In the area... Turns out gonzaga was having a home basketball game vs Bryant, which started at 4:00 pm... (lucky me!!) And I was about a half block from the athletic center!

At around 3:10ish, I noticed a police car park on the side road where my truck was, lights flashing, about 100 yards away. I thought "oh here we go..." but the officer was just their to play crossing guard for the bb game. He would hit the crosswalk button to stop traffic, which slowed them down as they passed me.

I talked to several people on the way the game, mostly alumni I would surmise. A few people didn't know the story, so I gave them the run down...

"two students successfully thwarted a robbery using a legally owned pistol. Police came and said that they did Everything right, and left. Campus security, using keys to the housing, went into the apartment and 'stole' the students guns. Now being against policy, the university has the right to expel, suspend, admin action ect... But because the students broke school "policy" does not mean that gonzaga can break the law and remove firearms... It goes way beyond their authority, even on private property."

Almost everyone I talked to Was in full gonzaga garb, and despite half my sign saying "shame on gonzaga" most people agreed with me. I got a few "thank you for doing this" alot of supportive honking and waving from cars, a few verbal shouts from cars, ALL positive. I even managed to get the OCDO Washington gun rights fliers into several individuals' hands.

One person flipped me off, but to be fair I think he only got to read the first half of the sign, can't really blame him as he drove by... So when I got home I amended my sign to read "SHAME on gonzaga follow the law!!!"

I stayed untill 4:30 (dark) and threw in the towel. I was OC my XD 45 all day

I had a great time, and may be back today.

Interesting... New article says police took guns, while original (and live newscast) I saw both said campus security came in later and took guns. I don't suppose you guys think this is on accident, do you?

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/...ulsion-for-having-gun-231311831.html?mobile=y
 
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unknownsailor

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
49
Location
Bremerton, WA
Handbook: http://www.gonzaga.edu/Student+Life...udent-Handbook-FINAL-Document-Interactive.pdf

see page 20
Possession, use, display, sale or exchange of weapons at any location on campus, including University residential
facilities and privately-owned vehicles, is prohibited. The term “weapon” means any object designed to propel an object,
inflict a wound, cause injury, incapacitate, damage property or cause a reasonable fear of such, and includes, but is not
limited to, all firearms, pellet/BB/air guns, paintball guns, home-manufactured cannons or explosive devices, bows and
arrows, slingshots, clubs, martial arts devices, switchblades or otherwise-illegal knives or knives with a blade longer than
three inches (with the exception of kitchen knives in our University homes and apartments). Replica guns and other
simulated weapons are included within this policy. Objects otherwise not considered weapons, and knives with blades
less than three inches, may be included within this policy if used as a weapon. Fireworks, flammables, explosives and
chemicals of an explosive and/or flammable nature are also prohibited.
Exceptions to this policy may be authorized by the Director of Campus Public Safety and Security. The University
retains the right to search persons, possessions and bags and privately-owned vehicles on University property, and to
confiscate, retain and dispose of/destroy all items covered by this policy regardless of value or ownership. Law
enforcement may be contacted for some violations of this policy.

Does the fact that the apartment is school property but not on school grounds mean that the school has no more authority in this matter then any other standard landlord? Provided there is no "weapons" clause in the lease the two students signed, it would seem to me that the school is in the wrong.
I've been an apartment dweller for a long time, and I know that the landlord can't just confiscate something they find in my apartment. They can't ban anything unless it is in the lease, either, and even then, if I as the renter cross that out on the lease, and the landlord or his rep signs the lease, it doesn't apply.
 

MattinWA

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Messages
278
Location
Spokane Washington
Does the fact that the apartment is school property but not on school grounds mean that the school has no more authority in this matter then any other standard landlord? Provided there is no "weapons" clause in the lease the two students signed, it would seem to me that the school is in the wrong.
I've been an apartment dweller for a long time, and I know that the landlord can't just confiscate something they find in my apartment. They can't ban anything unless it is in the lease, either, and even then, if I as the renter cross that out on the lease, and the landlord or his rep signs the lease, it doesn't apply.

None of the possible outcomes you described could possibly give PRIVATE security the authority to enter a dwelling and physically remove firearms. Grounds for eviction, or administrative action? Sure.

they overstepped their reach, and did something the police couldn't/wouldn't do
 

golddigger14s

Activist Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
2,068
Location
Lawton, OK USA
In a statement today, Gonzaga President Thayne M. McCulloh revealed that this week’s controversy over possible sanctions against two students who discouraged an intruder at gunpoint from their off-campus apartment has opened the door for “thoughtful evaluation” of the university’s weapons policy, the Spokane Spokesman-Review reported.

http://www.examiner.com/article/gonzaga-may-re-evaluate-weapons-policy-says-president
 
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