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Thread: Was told that the Washington State Convention Center is Private Property

  1. #1
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Was told that the Washington State Convention Center is Private Property

    I was trespassed out of the WSCC for my lawful carry of a pistol.

    I was told by two strange men who claimed to be security that my carrying there was illegal because there was a code of conduct posted and that there are posted "no weapons" signs ALL OVER the building and that I should have seen it when I entered.

    I had to look and found 1 sign on the ground floor that showed that I was excempt from the weapons prohibition under RCW 9.41.300. I informed of that and they proceeded to tell me that if I put my gun away I was welcome but not with my gun on me.



    I am not going to give all the details just giving a heads up for all of those who may wish to visit the WSCC, in Seattle sometime.

    I did call their head of security and operations and they claimed they knew nothing of the law and that they were not willing to even look it up.
    Last edited by Freedom1Man; 01-10-2016 at 01:52 PM.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

  2. #2
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    Washington State Convention Center (WSCC) completed its second full year of operations as a public facilities district (PFD) in December 2012. The PFD is responsible for the management, operations, capital improvements and financial success of the organization. This change in governance greatly increases the ability of WSCC to better manage its activities and be the economic catalyst it was designed to be at its inception more than twenty-five years ago.
    As the economy made a steady recovery in 2012, the convention and trade show industry also continued to gain strength. Increased event activity, larger attendance at events, higher overall convention spending and excellent expense management by staff helped WSCC to again generate positive economic benefits. A summary of these results can be found at the "Overview of Annual Report, Fiscal Year End December 31, 2012" link below.
    WSCC is currently in the second year of a three-year, $21 million capital plan to keep the facility in first-class condition. New carpeting, paint and wall treatments were added in 2011. 2012 improvements included planning and permitting for remodeled restrooms, new digital signage, improved wayfinding throughout the building, and exterior enhancements will include streetscape redesign and an improved pedestrian experience along Pike Street and 8th Avenue. These upgrades are important to ensure our facility continues to exceed the expectations and experiences of our customers, both inside and outside WSCC, and are expected to be completed in 2013 and early 2014.
    Our industry increasingly values green businesses, and WSCC continues to be a leader in conservation and sustainable meetings. Our efforts include making compostable food service items standard, providing recycling and composting stations throughout the facility and installing efficient lighting and plumbing fixtures. 2012 was no exception, with an annual waste diversion rate of 70.28%.
    As we look ahead, we believe that the improving economy, our incomparable service, significant upgrades to the facility, smart fiscal management, and the beauty of Seattle as a destination positions WSCC well in 2013 and beyond.
    Sincerely,

    Jeffrey A. Blosser
    President and Chief Executive Officer

  3. #3
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=36.100.010

    Public facilities districts — Creation — Approval of taxes by election — Corporate powers — Property transfer — Agreements.
    (1) One or more public facilities districts may be created in any county and must be coextensive with the boundaries of the county.

    (2) A public facilities district is created upon adoption of a resolution providing for the creation of such a district by the county legislative authority in which the proposed district is located.

    (3) A public facilities district is a municipal corporation, an independent taxing "authority" within the meaning of Article VII, section 1 of the state Constitution, and a "taxing district" within the meaning of Article VII, section 2 of the state Constitution.

    (4) Except as provided in RCW 36.100.040 (4) and (5), no taxes authorized under this chapter may be assessed or levied unless a majority of the voters of the public facilities district has approved such tax at a general or special election. A single ballot proposition may both validate the imposition of the sales and use tax under RCW 82.14.048 and the excise tax under RCW 36.100.040(1).

    (5)(a) A public facilities district constitutes a body corporate and possesses all the usual powers of a corporation for public purposes as well as all other powers that may now or hereafter be specifically conferred by statute, including, but not limited to, the authority to hire employees, staff, and services, to enter into contracts, including contracts with public and private parties, to acquire, own, sell, transfer, lease, and otherwise acquire or dispose of property, to grant concessions under terms approved by the public facilities district, and to sue and be sued.

    (b) A public facilities district created by a county with a population of one million five hundred thousand or more to acquire, own, and operate a convention and trade center transferred from a public nonprofit corporation may continue to contract with the Seattle-King county convention and visitors' bureau or its successor in interest for marketing the convention and trade center facility and services.

    (6) A public facilities district may enter into contracts with a county for the purpose of exercising any powers of a community renewal agency under chapter 35.81 RCW.

    (7) The legislative authority of a city or county, the board of directors of a public nonprofit corporation, or the state of Washington may transfer property to a public facilities district created under this chapter, with or without consideration. No property that is encumbered with debt or that is in need of major capital renovation may be transferred to the district without the agreement of the district and revenues adequate to retire the existing indebtedness.

    (8) A public facilities district may enter into agreements with the state, any municipal corporation, or any other governmental entity for the design, financing, acquisition, development, construction, reconstruction, lease, remodeling, alteration, maintenance, equipping, reequipping, repair, operation, or management of one or more facilities of the parties thereto. Agreements may provide that any party to the contract designs, finances, acquires, develops, constructs, reconstructs, remodels, alters, maintains, equips, reequips, repairs, and operates one or more facilities for the other party or parties to the contract. A public facilities district may enter into an agreement with the state, any municipal corporation, or other public or private entity that will assist a public facilities district in the financing of all or any part of a district facility on such terms as may be determined by agreement between the respective parties, including without limitation by a loan, guaranty, or other financing agreement.
    Last edited by Bill Starks; 11-09-2013 at 07:23 AM.

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    So the only question would be, do they lease the facility to a private organization for operations?

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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    Go Bill! *cheer*
    Armed and annoyingly well informed!

    There are two constants when dealing with liberals:
    1) Liberals never quit until they are satisfied.
    2) Liberals are never satisfied.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    They were implying that RCW 9.41.300 did not apply to the WSCC when it comes to CPL holders carrying in the building.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Well, let's go up there and have a chat with them at their next board meeting.

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    It's like playing whac-a-mole...

    Just as the Seattle Public Library comes into line with the law, the Convention Center abandons it...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    I was trespassed out of the WSCC for my lawful carry of a pistol.
    I fully understand and support the idea and principles behind open carry.

    That said, I would encourage anyone who ventures near the WSCC to never, ever do it unarmed. Conceal if necessary, but don't go unarmed. If, for some reason, you can't carry a concealed firearm, carry OC spray or something.

    For several years, I had business that took me to the WSCC and the surrounding area several times a week. As a result, I kept a close watch on the SPD website for violent crimes in that area. The WSCC is nestled right in among a number of hotspots of all sorts of weird violent stuff, all within one block of the CC. In particular, the corner of 7th and Pike seems to have some bizarre gravitational attraction for the mentally unstable and/or homeless getting paranoid and attacking people more or less at random. Knives, bottles, clubs, you name it. Watching the reports of stuff that happened on that corner was, for me, a serious lesson in how a spot that looked 'safe' to me could actually have a pretty high frequency of bad stuff happening there.

    Be alert. Stay safe. And, whichever one of you tackles the job of educating the WSCC that open carry is legal and allowed at the WSCC - thanks in advance. I appreciate it.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrGray View Post

    Be alert. Stay safe. And, whichever one of you tackles the job of educating the WSCC that open carry is legal and allowed at the WSCC - thanks in advance. I appreciate it.
    You're welcome. They will learn that law by the time I am done.

    According to my girlfriend one security guard finally looked at the engraved plaque on the post and mentioned to the other guards that he (I) might be correct after all..... They had never read the plaque hanging on the wall before.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Sure looks like the entity is part of a locality, therefore covered by preemption; recommend more people open carry there - make sure you are there when the facility is open to the public etc. when you do so.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Sure looks like the entity is part of a locality, therefore covered by preemption; recommend more people open carry there - make sure you are there when the facility is open to the public etc. when you do so.
    +1

    I would if it wasn't such a drive......
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
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    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
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  13. #13
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Sure looks like the entity is part of a locality, therefore covered by preemption; recommend more people open carry there - make sure you are there when the facility is open to the public etc. when you do so.
    When is it not open to the public when it is open at all?
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Sure looks like the entity is part of a locality, therefore covered by preemption; recommend more people open carry there - make sure you are there when the facility is open to the public etc. when you do so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    When is it not open to the public when it is open at all?
    If the facility is leased for an event, let's say to Microsoft or Amazon, then while the facility is "Open", it's not open to the public. Only Microsoft or Amazon people and their invitees. If you aren't a guest then you can be asked to leave. Refuse and you can be trespassed.


    Now if it's an event open to the public, like a Home Show or the like (a hint would be if admission is being sold) then "carry on".


    BTW, next time someone's approached by random people claiming to be "Security", take a cell phone pic. Helps to ID them later.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    It should be open to the public during their board meetings.

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    Good morning Mr. Dean Fuller,

    Thank you for your inquiry about the operations of the Washington State Convention Center.

    I am not quite certain I understand your question, but I will assume you were speaking of total operation. The Center does manage its own operations. We are not, for example, operated by contract with an outside venue management company, as some other Centers are across the nation. WSCC does have contracts with various companies for example, Visit Seattle provides our national marketing support and ARAMARK is our contracted food service provider. If you go to our web site wscc.com and click on “Our Services” tab you will find the services listed that are of primary interest to meeting planners.

    Perhaps you are more specifically interested as a specific service provider, if you can provide more information I will do my best to answer your question.

    Thank you, Linda.

    Linda Willanger
    Vice President Administration, AGM
    Washington State Convention Center
    800 Convention Place, Seattle, WA 98101 USA
    linda.willanger@wscc.com
    Office: 206-694-5107 | Cell: 206-510-8259 | Fax: 206-694-5191
    Last edited by deanf; 11-12-2013 at 09:34 PM.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    If the facility is leased for an event, let's say to Microsoft or Amazon, then while the facility is "Open", it's not open to the public. Only Microsoft or Amazon people and their invitees. If you aren't a guest then you can be asked to leave. Refuse and you can be trespassed.


    Now if it's an event open to the public, like a Home Show or the like (a hint would be if admission is being sold) then "carry on".


    BTW, next time someone's approached by random people claiming to be "Security", take a cell phone pic. Helps to ID them later.
    Only part of the building was being used for an event that the event ticket sellers sold me a ticket on the spot for.

    The ticket seller did not state that my gun and hence I myself was not welcome. It was building "security" that said that the whole building was off limits period while armed.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Refuse and you can be trespassed.
    I'm curious. If you are trespassed from a special event like you mentioned, how long does the trespass notice last for? I'd assume it ends when the event ends, since the event organizers no longer have a lease...but since when does a law have to make sense?

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    Sorry for the dumb question, but are you saying you can legally OC there if you have a CPL but not if you don't have one?

  20. #20
    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by omegagonzo View Post
    Sorry for the dumb question, but are you saying you can legally OC there if you have a CPL but not if you don't have one?
    Yes, there are places where you can only carry (open or concealed, doesn't matter) if you have a concealed pistol license. There are also places where you can only open carry unloaded if you don't have a CPL.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    Only part of the building was being used for an event that the event ticket sellers sold me a ticket on the spot for.

    The ticket seller did not state that my gun and hence I myself was not welcome. It was building "security" that said that the whole building was off limits period while armed.
    Sounds like they were still wrong then. They obviously had not been asked by the event to confront you, but did so on their own acting on their presumed authority of the state. Their words and actions ("entire building," "we have signs," etc.) prove that.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by omegagonzo View Post
    Sorry for the dumb question, but are you saying you can legally OC there if you have a CPL but not if you don't have one?
    In general, assuming one is not a "prohibited person", then one can open carry in the State of Washington with or without a CPL. To transport a LOADED pistol in a vehicle one must have a cpl.

    Cites, in general are not allowed to pass firearm laws, however they are allowed to prohibit carry in certain areas such as stadiums and such but those in possession of a valid cpl are exempt from such prohibition.
    A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.- Thomas Jefferson March 4 1801

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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    Just as the Seattle Public Library comes into line with the law, the Convention Center abandons it...
    Well, does city of Seattle or KC have law or an ordinance that prohibits firearms in the facility? If so, then they are within the law.

    Regardless of the laws or policies affecting the WSCC, "security" was wrong if OP has a CPL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyb View Post
    Well, does city of Seattle or KC have law or an ordinance that prohibits firearms in the facility? If so, then they are within the law.

    Regardless of the laws or policies affecting the WSCC, "security" was wrong if OP has a CPL.
    WHAT? It would appear that you have NOT read RCW9.41.290.
    Might want to give that a read.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Dr View Post
    WHAT? It would appear that you have NOT read RCW9.41.290.
    Might want to give that a read.
    You might want to read 9.41.300.

    And then this: http://clerk.seattle.gov/~scripts/np...ct6=HITOFF&f=G

    It is unlawful for a person knowingly to:
    C. Possess a firearm in any stadium or convention center operated by a city, county or other municipality, except that such restriction shall not apply to:
    1. Any pistol in the possession of a person licensed under RCW 9.41.070 or exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, or
    2. Any showing, demonstration or lecture involving the exhibition of firearms.

    Last edited by mikeyb; 11-20-2013 at 06:50 PM.

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