Mandatory gun ownership laws...

I have to admit, every time I see that a municipality has passed a mandatory gun ownership law as a crime deterrent measure, I smile a bit. I think it's an effective measure. Many words have been written crediting the possibility of Swiss neutrality to their militia, which involved mandatory ownership of rifles by citizens. But, technically speaking, isn't it just as wrong a prohibition?

What if you took it a step further, and had a mandatory gun possession law - you had to carry in public. (of course, you would almost necessarily have to have mandatory training with this one) Surely nobody with liberty on the mind could see this as legitimately justifiable. Right?

stealthyeliminator said:

I have to admit, every time I see that a municipality has passed a mandatory gun ownership law as a crime deterrent measure, I smile a bit. I think it's an effective measure. Many words have been written crediting the possibility of Swiss neutrality to their militia, which involved mandatory ownership of rifles by citizens. But, technically speaking, isn't it just as wrong a prohibition?

What if you took it a step further, and had a mandatory gun possession law - you had to carry in public. (of course, you would almost necessarily have to have mandatory training with this one) Surely nobody with liberty on the mind could see this as legitimately justifiable. Right?

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Yep it's wrong.

sudden valley gunner said:

Yep it's wrong.

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+1

I guess I'm not that edumcated. I don't understand "mandatory gun control law".

mandatory gun ownership laws? why do I want an anti to have a gun he would not otherwise own?

davidmcbeth said:

I guess I'm not that edumcated. I don't understand "mandatory gun control law".

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I don't either but then again, you are the only one in the thread who's used that phrase.
Perhaps you meant to question mandatory gun ownership laws?

There are two cities I can think of offhand with such laws, both happen to be in Georgia.
There's Kennesaw, of which much has been written over the last 30 years, and the newer law in Nelson, GA.

edit: add Spring City and Virgin, UT, Cherry Tree, PA and Greenleaf, ID to that list.

Perhaps tyrannical, but 100% Constitutional!

Most (if not all) of those "Must Be Armed" city ordinances have enough loop holes and exceptions anyone that doesn't want to have a gun doesn't have to. It is purely symbolic; unlike Morton Grove, Peoples Democratic Republic of Illinois' ban.

F350 said:

Most (if not all) of those "Must Be Armed" city ordinances have enough loop holes and exceptions anyone that doesn't want to have a gun doesn't have to. It is purely symbolic; unlike Morton Grove, Peoples Democratic Republic of Illinois' ban.

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Hmm that's a pretty good point, I think. I did not think about that! Thanks for reminding me of it.

Daylen said:

Perhaps tyrannical, but 100% Constitutional!

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Cite.

Originally Posted by Daylen View Post
Perhaps tyrannical, but 100% Constitutional!

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sudden valley gunner said:

Cite.

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Well; I suppose we could start with the Militia Act of 1792; passed by the Second US Congress made up of many of the same men that ratified the Constitution.

the requirements of possessing:

“a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch, with a box
therein, to contain not less than twenty four cartridges, suited to the bore of his musket or firelock, each cartridge to
contain a proper quantity of powder and ball; or with a good rifle, knapsack, shot-pouch, and powder-horn, twenty
balls suited to the bore of his rifle, and a quarter of a pound of powder; and shall appear so armed, accoutred and
provided, when called out to exercise or into service, except, that when called out on company days to exercise only,
he may appear without a knapsack.”

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I know of , maybe , one person who could meet the firearm requirements in the Militia Act of 1792. My AR would not be strictly constitutional under those requirements, unless we allow for a little interpretation.

sudden valley gunner said:

Cite.

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Article 1
Section 8
powers over the militia
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

Militia act of 1792

I'd cite the anti federalist and federalist papers, but that takes a bunch of time and I think is overkill at this point.

F350 said:

Well; I suppose we could start with the Militia Act of 1792; passed by the Second US Congress made up of many of the same men that ratified the Constitution.

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Daylen said:

Article 1
Section 8
powers over the militia
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

Militia act of 1792

I'd cite the anti federalist and federalist papers, but that takes a bunch of time and I think is overkill at this point.

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This doesn't make it "constitutional" to mandate gun ownership.

sudden valley gunner said:

This doesn't make it "constitutional" to mandate gun ownership.

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Here I'll help with your reading comprehension...

Well; I suppose we could start with the Militia Act of 1792; passed by the Second US Congress made up of many of the same men that ratified the Constitution.

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I think they probably had a better grasp of what was constitutional than you do. You could also read The Federalist Papers, particularly # 29 by Hamilton.

F350 said:

Here I'll help with your reading comprehension...



I think they probably had a better grasp of what was constitutional than you do. You could also read The Federalist Papers, particularly # 29 by Hamilton.

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The militia spoken of in the Militia Act, did it comprise of everyone?

georg jetson said:

The militia spoken of in the Militia Act, did it comprise of everyone?

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An ACT more effectually to provide for the National Defence, by establishing an Uniform Militia throughout the United States.

I. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That each and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States, resident therein, who is or shall be of age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia, by the Captain or Commanding Officer of the company, within whose bounds such citizen shall reside, and that within twelve months after the passing of this Act. And it shall at all time hereafter be the duty of every such Captain or Commanding Officer of a company, to enroll every such citizen as aforesaid, and also those who shall, from time to time, arrive at the age of 18 years, or being at the age of 18 years, and under the age of 45 years (except as before excepted) shall come to reside within his bounds; and shall without delay notify such citizen of the said enrollment, by the proper non-commissioned Officer of the company, by whom such notice may be proved. That every citizen, so enrolled and notified, shall, within six months thereafter, provide himself with a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch, with a box therein, to contain not less than twenty four cartridges, suited to the bore of his musket or firelock, each cartridge to contain a proper quantity of powder and ball; or with a good rifle, knapsack, shot-pouch, and powder-horn, twenty balls suited to the bore of his rifle, and a quarter of a pound of powder; and shall appear so armed, accoutred and provided, when called out to exercise or into service, except, that when called out on company days to exercise only, he may appear without a knapsack. That the commissioned Officers shall severally be armed with a sword or hanger, and espontoon; and that from and after five years from the passing of this Act, all muskets from arming the militia as is herein required, shall be of bores sufficient for balls of the eighteenth part of a pound; and every citizen so enrolled, and providing himself with the arms, ammunition and accoutrements, required as aforesaid, shall hold the same exempted from all suits, distresses, executions or sales, for debt or for the payment of taxes.

EMNofSeattle said:

An ACT more effectually to provide for the National Defence, by establishing an Uniform Militia throughout the United States.

I. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That each and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States, resident therein, who is or shall be of age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia, by the Captain or Commanding Officer of the company, within whose bounds such citizen shall reside, and that within twelve months after the passing of this Act. And it shall at all time hereafter be the duty of every such Captain or Commanding Officer of a company, to enroll every such citizen as aforesaid, and also those who shall, from time to time, arrive at the age of 18 years, or being at the age of 18 years, and under the age of 45 years (except as before excepted) shall come to reside within his bounds; and shall without delay notify such citizen of the said enrollment, by the proper non-commissioned Officer of the company, by whom such notice may be proved. That every citizen, so enrolled and notified, shall, within six months thereafter, provide himself with a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch, with a box therein, to contain not less than twenty four cartridges, suited to the bore of his musket or firelock, each cartridge to contain a proper quantity of powder and ball; or with a good rifle, knapsack, shot-pouch, and powder-horn, twenty balls suited to the bore of his rifle, and a quarter of a pound of powder; and shall appear so armed, accoutred and provided, when called out to exercise or into service, except, that when called out on company days to exercise only, he may appear without a knapsack. That the commissioned Officers shall severally be armed with a sword or hanger, and espontoon; and that from and after five years from the passing of this Act, all muskets from arming the militia as is herein required, shall be of bores sufficient for balls of the eighteenth part of a pound; and every citizen so enrolled, and providing himself with the arms, ammunition and accoutrements, required as aforesaid, shall hold the same exempted from all suits, distresses, executions or sales, for debt or for the payment of taxes.

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Also read Federalist Papers #29, 46 & 59 (available on line with a little Google fu).

Also of interesting note...

IV. And be it further enacted, That out of the militia enrolled as is herein directed, there shall be formed for each battalion, as least one company of grenadiers, light infantry or riflemen; and that each division there shall be, at least, one company of artillery, and one troop of horse: There shall be to each company of artillery, one captain, two lieutenants, four serjeants, four corporals, six gunners, six bombardiers, one drummer, and one fifer. The officers to be

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Since there was no US military; Who owned the cannons?????

beebobby said:

I know of , maybe , one person who could meet the firearm requirements in the Militia Act of 1792. My AR would not be strictly constitutional under those requirements, unless we allow for a little interpretation.

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I personally have 3 muzzle loading rifles and 1 flintlock .62 musket.

Since the law lasted until 1903 I think there was some interpretation; after all, according to your kind "The constitution is a living breathing document", right?

Then there is US v Miller that essentially said only arms having relevance to "A well regulated militia" were covered by the second amendment (OH and the 1700s usage of the word "regulated did not mean chocked to death by laws).

F350 said:

Here I'll help with your reading comprehension...



I think they probably had a better grasp of what was constitutional than you do. You could also read The Federalist Papers, particularly # 29 by Hamilton.

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Nothing is wrong with my reading comprehension. Let me help you with your reading comprehension what I asked is to cite the constitution that mandates gun ownership, something that has not been done. An act of congress does not make something constitutional. I.E. Obama care.

The federalist papers is not the constitution it can give us a great insight on what they were thinking but it isn't constitutional. Many of the centralist statist ideas of Hamilton were thwarted by the more liberty minded anti federalist.

sudden valley gunner said:

Nothing is wrong with my reading comprehension. Let me help you with your reading comprehension what I asked is to cite the constitution that mandates gun ownership, something that has not been done. An act of congress does not make something constitutional. I.E. Obama care.

The federalist papers is not the constitution it can give us a great insight on what they were thinking but it isn't constitutional. Many of the centralist statist ideas of Hamilton were thwarted by the more liberty minded anti federalist.

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30 second Google search

Article 1, Section 8

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.