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Thread: My introduction

  1. #1

    My introduction

    Hey all I have been around guns my whole live and I finally got my Oklahoma carry card on Halloween. I have a 1 year old girl and my wife to look after, so I am definitely happy to have my license finally. I conceal carry my smith 642 when required, and carried my smith 357 mag model 586 for the first time yesterday. I do plan to open carry full time whenever possible. My preference of pistol is a smith revolver. I love the feel and I am a pretty good shot with one vs a semi. However, I do have a sw40ve I considered carrying in the future, but I'm not yet 100% comfortable with carrying it. I have been reading articles on here for a little while now, you all have given me more I sight on the benefits of open carry and in general how to be an American. I feel like open carry is about the last right we actually have these days, and by God I am going to use it. In the year since open carry has been legal in Oklahoma, I have seen one person exercise the right. I won't be one to stand back afraid of the public view of open carry. If I want the people to be more comfortable with the idea of open carry, I must set a positive example. I do not see open carry as a fashion statement or means to be a vigilante. I honestly believe being armed is the only protection we have these days. And if open carry could make a criminal second guess a bad choice, that is a much better option than concealed carrying.

    That's about all the intro I have, but I do have a quick question for you all.

    If you do get confronted by an officer, do they have any rights at all toward you and your firearm? Say you inform them you have a license and do have a loaded weapon on you, can they ask to see your weapon or ask where it is? I have yet to see anything on paper about this.

    Glad to be on here,
    Tom
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  2. #2
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan6679 View Post
    Hey all I have been around guns my whole live and I finally got my Oklahoma carry card on Halloween. I have a 1 year old girl and my wife to look after, so I am definitely happy to have my license finally. I conceal carry my smith 642 when required, and carried my smith 357 mag model 586 for the first time yesterday. I do plan to open carry full time whenever possible. My preference of pistol is a smith revolver. I love the feel and I am a pretty good shot with one vs a semi. However, I do have a sw40ve I considered carrying in the future, but I'm not yet 100% comfortable with carrying it. I have been reading articles on here for a little while now, you all have given me more I sight on the benefits of open carry and in general how to be an American. I feel like open carry is about the last right we actually have these days, and by God I am going to use it. In the year since open carry has been legal in Oklahoma, I have seen one person exercise the right. I won't be one to stand back afraid of the public view of open carry. If I want the people to be more comfortable with the idea of open carry, I must set a positive example. I do not see open carry as a fashion statement or means to be a vigilante. I honestly believe being armed is the only protection we have these days. And if open carry could make a criminal second guess a bad choice, that is a much better option than concealed carrying.

    That's about all the intro I have, but I do have a quick question for you all.

    If you do get confronted by an officer, do they have any rights at all toward you and your firearm? Say you inform them you have a license and do have a loaded weapon on you, can they ask to see your weapon or ask where it is? I have yet to see anything on paper about this.

    Glad to be on here,
    Tom
    Welcome to the forum Tom. I am not positive about your laws in Oklahoma, maybe check out the state sub forum and see if there is available information there.

    Minor correction in a way of thinking, police do not have rights, government can't have them, people have rights. This helps us mentally frame the argument correctly to that we properly express to others that government and it's agents have certain limited powers or authority.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  3. #3
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    Cops as public servants have no rights but only powers delegated by their public masters.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  4. #4
    Sorry let me correct. Do they have the authority * *

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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan6679 View Post
    Hey all I have been around guns my whole live and I finally got my Oklahoma carry card on Halloween. I have a 1 year old girl and my wife to look after, so I am definitely happy to have my license finally. I conceal carry my smith 642 when required, and carried my smith 357 mag model 586 for the first time yesterday. I do plan to open carry full time whenever possible. My preference of pistol is a smith revolver. I love the feel and I am a pretty good shot with one vs a semi. However, I do have a sw40ve I considered carrying in the future, but I'm not yet 100% comfortable with carrying it. I have been reading articles on here for a little while now, you all have given me more I sight on the benefits of open carry and in general how to be an American. I feel like open carry is about the last right we actually have these days, and by God I am going to use it. In the year since open carry has been legal in Oklahoma, I have seen one person exercise the right. I won't be one to stand back afraid of the public view of open carry. If I want the people to be more comfortable with the idea of open carry, I must set a positive example. I do not see open carry as a fashion statement or means to be a vigilante. I honestly believe being armed is the only protection we have these days. And if open carry could make a criminal second guess a bad choice, that is a much better option than concealed carrying.

    That's about all the intro I have, but I do have a quick question for you all.

    If you do get confronted by an officer, do they have any authority at all toward you and your firearm? Say you inform them you have a license and do have a loaded weapon on you, can they ask to see your weapon or ask where it is? I have yet to see anything on paper about this.

    Glad to be on here,
    Tom


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  6. #6
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan6679 View Post
    Sorry let me correct. Do they have the authority * *

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    My opinion no. Does the legal system in your state say they do....don't know.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  7. #7
    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    OP, you'll get a lot of really right wing answers like cops have no authority etc. Authority, rights, right/wrong dont matter on the side of the road. Give the officer your permit, make sure he is aware and communicate a lot. Mostly importanly obey all orders from LEOs whether lawful or not. I would recommend a voice recorder or use an app on your phone if you feel this will be an issue. You can dispute issues later. Several members here have represented themselves and as part of their settlements required the police department to undergo additional training on OCers.

    I OC in TN all the time and cops rarely look twice at me. WHen i first started, i was shocked how few people notice that i am carrying a sidearm.

    Ive been carryinng for about ten years and have never had a bad experience till a few weeks ago. Officer flipped out, disarmed me without warning etc (all strange because im a nicely dressed, married 30 yr old driving a nice car). Anyway, i put up the short story in my state forum and also got responses like....... "no officer is going to disarm me" etc. Yeah well, keep talking on the internet buddy. Im still alive and not shot to death.

  8. #8
    I found the answer in a state specific thread.

    "8. Is a police officer allowed to check the serial number on my handgun to see if it is stolen or check to see if my handgun is safe or not?
    (Section 1290.8.E) "Nothing in this section shall be construed to authorize a law enforcement officer to inspect any weapon properly concealed or unconcealed without probable cause that a crime has been committed."

    9) Am I required to provide identification if I am stopped by a police officer? Can they take my handgun for "officer safety"?
    (Section 1290.8. "The person shall display the handgun license on demand of a law enforcement officer; provided, however, that in the absence of reasonable and articulable suspicion of other criminal activity, an individual carrying an unconcealed handgun shall not be disarmed or physically restrained unless the individual fails to display a valid handgun license in response to that demand."

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kopis View Post
    OP, you'll get a lot of really right wing answers like cops have no authority etc. Authority, rights, right/wrong dont matter on the side of the road. Give the officer your permit, make sure he is aware and communicate a lot. Mostly importanly obey all orders from LEOs whether lawful or not. I would recommend a voice recorder or use an app on your phone if you feel this will be an issue. You can dispute issues later. Several members here have represented themselves and as part of their settlements required the police department to undergo additional training on OCers.

    I OC in TN all the time and cops rarely look twice at me. WHen i first started, i was shocked how few people notice that i am carrying a sidearm.

    Ive been carryinng for about ten years and have never had a bad experience till a few weeks ago. Officer flipped out, disarmed me without warning etc (all strange because im a nicely dressed, married 30 yr old driving a nice car). Anyway, i put up the short story in my state forum and also got responses like....... "no officer is going to disarm me" etc. Yeah well, keep talking on the internet buddy. Im still alive and not shot to death.
    Well said. +1

  10. #10
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    I open carry here in Oklahoma. Per the State statute, if an officer approaches you while openly carrying your firearm and asks to see your handgun license, you are required by State Statute to show him your permit. The officer does not have the authority to disarm you unless they have reasonable suspicion you were involved in a crime. Oklahoma unfortunately does not allow you to refuse ID from an officer while carrying openly.

    TulsaDan
    The way of the fool is right in his own eyes; but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise. Prov 12:15

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    OP..you mean your Halloween Carry Card in OLK ? lol

    Welcome to the forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TulsaDan View Post
    I open carry here in Oklahoma. Per the State statute, if an officer approaches you while openly carrying your firearm and asks to see your handgun license, you are required by State Statute to show him your permit. The officer does not have the authority to disarm you unless they have reasonable suspicion you were involved in a crime. Oklahoma unfortunately does not allow you to refuse ID from an officer while carrying openly.

    TulsaDan
    The way of the fool is right in his own eyes; but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise. Prov 12:15

    Also if you are carrying concealed and you are approached by and officer in an official capacity you need to inform him that you are carrying and produce both your DL(or ID) and HGP. By law you have to have both on you when carrying.

    TITLE 21 1290.8 POSSESSION OF LICENSE REQUIRED-NOTIFICATION TO POLICE OF GUN
    B. The person shall be required to have possession of his or her valid handgun license and a valid Oklahoma driver license or an Oklahoma State photo identification at all times when in possession of an authorized pistol. The person shall display the handgun license on demand of a law enforcement officer; provided, however, that in the absence of reasonable and articulable suspicion of other criminal activity, an individual carrying an unconcealed or concealed handgun shall not be disarmed or physically restrained unless the individual fails to display a valid handgun license in response to that demand. Any violation of the provisions of this subsection may be punishable as a criminal offense as authorized by Section 1272 of this title or pursuant to any other applicable provision of law. Any second or subsequent violation of the provisions of this subsection shall be grounds for the Bureau to suspend the handgun license for a period of six (6) months, in addition to any other penalty imposed.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamnYankeeOk View Post
    Also if you are carrying concealed and you are approached by and officer in an official capacity you need to inform him that you are carrying and produce both your DL(or ID) and HGP. By law you have to have both on you when carrying.

    TITLE 21 1290.8 POSSESSION OF LICENSE REQUIRED-NOTIFICATION TO POLICE OF GUN
    B. The person shall be required to have possession of his or her valid handgun license and a valid Oklahoma driver license or an Oklahoma State photo identification at all times when in possession of an authorized pistol. The person shall display the handgun license on demand of a law enforcement officer; provided, however, that in the absence of reasonable and articulable suspicion of other criminal activity, an individual carrying an unconcealed or concealed handgun shall not be disarmed or physically restrained unless the individual fails to display a valid handgun license in response to that demand. Any violation of the provisions of this subsection may be punishable as a criminal offense as authorized by Section 1272 of this title or pursuant to any other applicable provision of law. Any second or subsequent violation of the provisions of this subsection shall be grounds for the Bureau to suspend the handgun license for a period of six (6) months, in addition to any other penalty imposed.
    Sorry but you are wrong. Read the bolded part of your own post.

    You are also wrong that you need to inform him you are carrying anything. NOWHERE does it say that. It says ON DEMAND you shall produce a permit. PERIOD.

    HTH
    Last edited by Maverick9; 11-11-2013 at 08:12 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Sorry but you are wrong. Read the bolded part of your own post.

    You are also wrong that you need to inform him you are carrying anything. NOWHERE does it say that. It says ON DEMAND you shall produce a permit. PERIOD.

    HTH
    Reading that over again, does that apply in any situation? Say a routine traffic stop if he doesn't ask, you aren't required to show your permit?
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    Regular Member Robert318's Avatar
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    notification to officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan6679 View Post
    Reading that over again, does that apply in any situation? Say a routine traffic stop if he doesn't ask, you aren't required to show your permit?
    here is a link to the osbi site, the current SDA law book.
    http://www.ok.gov/osbi/documents/SDA...k_NOV_2013.pdf

    yes you must notify during a traffic stop

    TITLE 21 1290.8 POSSESSION OF LICENSE REQUIRED-NOTIFICATION TO POLICE OF GUN
    C. It shall be unlawful for any person to fail or refuse to identify the fact that the person is in actual possession of a concealed or unconcealed handgun pursuant to the authority of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act when the person first comes into contact with any law enforcement officer of this state or its political subdivisions or a federal law enforcement officer during the course of any arrest, detainment, or routine traffic stop. Said identification to the law enforcement officer shall be made at the first opportunity. No person shall be required to identify himself or herself as a handgun licensee when no handgun is in the possession of the person or in any vehicle in which the person is driving or is a passenger. Any violation of the provisions of this subsection shall, upon conviction, be a misdemeanor punishable by a fine not exceeding One Hundred Dollars ($100.00).

    I recommend studying the SDA and at least be familiar with the laws around carrying your firearm.
    Stay safe and God bless.

    Everyone will hate you because of me.
    But not a hair of your head will perish.
    Stand firm, and you will win life.
    (Luke 21:17-19 NIV)

    "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin

    "The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time; the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them.",
    "No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms."Thomas Jefferson

  16. #16
    I knew it was stated in the book you were required to do so at a traffic stop, then another law is posted that conflicts with it? There are so many specific rules and regulations I'm glad to be on here learning more. Thanks for the help all.

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    Regular Member Robert318's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan6679 View Post
    I knew it was stated in the book you were required to do so at a traffic stop, then another law is posted that conflicts with it? There are so many specific rules and regulations I'm glad to be on here learning more. Thanks for the help all.

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    Not sure of any conflict regarding notification. One provision refers to if out in public and an officer ask to see your permit then you are required to show it but if you see him or even have general conversation etc then you are not required to notify or show unless he ask. The other refers to traffic stops, detainments, or arrest, then you shall notify at your first opportunity.

    I am not a lawyer, this is my interpretation and understanding of the law.
    Stay safe and God bless.

    Everyone will hate you because of me.
    But not a hair of your head will perish.
    Stand firm, and you will win life.
    (Luke 21:17-19 NIV)

    "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin

    "The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time; the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them.",
    "No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms."Thomas Jefferson

  18. #18
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan6679 View Post
    Reading that over again, does that apply in any situation? Say a routine traffic stop if he doesn't ask, you aren't required to show your permit?
    On the site handgunlaw.us, Oklahoma is listed as a 'must notify' state. According to 21 1290.8 "C", you must inform that you are in possession of a firearm during an arrest or detainment or during a routine traffic stop -unless- you are not in possession of a firearm at that time.

    This does seem kind of at odds with part 'B' which talks about disclosing you have a permit 'on demand'. They're not aligned.

    I don't like these kind of 'spaghetti code' laws that make it hard to know what to do, make it hard to know what the detaining LEO will have interpreted them to say, and actually put the LAC in jeopardy. The LEO, if he doesn't particularly like you can easily say you didn't disclose, when you, in fact did. What's your recourse? There have been cases where the person tried to inform and was prevented from doing so by the officer.

    If it were me and I lived in Oklahoma, I would not carry while driving - I'd lock it up in the trunk, broken down. But who knows if that qualifies as 'not in possession'?
    Last edited by Maverick9; 11-12-2013 at 05:36 PM.

  19. #19
    If I ever do have a run in, I have quick access to a voice recorder app on my phone I will definitely use.

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  20. #20
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan6679 View Post
    If I ever do have a run in, I have quick access to a voice recorder app on my phone I will definitely use.

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    I can virtually guarantee you will forget to use it. But good luck carrying in Oklahoma.

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