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Thread: Carry at the mall?

  1. #1

    Carry at the mall?

    Is it legal and or acceptable to open carry at a mall? Let's say a mall in tulsa. After see the mall seige of Kenya, my thoughts of malls have changed.
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    Sorry admin this should be nuked. Google knows all.

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    Regular Member Bill Humphries's Avatar
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    Yes and no

    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan6679 View Post
    Is it legal and or acceptable to open carry at a mall? Let's say a mall in tulsa. After see the mall seige of Kenya, my thoughts of malls have changed.
    It is technically legal to carry at the mall. However, the Tulsa malls have "no gun" signs. The signs do not have the weight of law. If the management or their representative ask you to leave, leave. If you refuse, a sworn law enforcement officer can be called. The officer will cite you for criminal trespass ($300) and arrest you if you continue to refuse to leave. This scenario is much more likely with open carry than concealed carry. Recent changes in the SDA clarified the "no gun" signs and policies.

    www.concealedcarrycoweta.weebly.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Humphries View Post
    It is technically legal to carry at the mall. However, the Tulsa malls have "no gun" signs. The signs do not have the weight of law. If the management or their representative ask you to leave, leave. If you refuse, a sworn law enforcement officer can be called. The officer will cite you for criminal trespass ($300) and arrest you if you continue to refuse to leave. This scenario is much more likely with open carry than concealed carry. Recent changes in the SDA clarified the "no gun" signs and policies.

    www.concealedcarrycoweta.weebly.com
    As of Nov 1st its no long a criminal trespass. Its a non-criminal trespass. $150 fine IIRC.

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    IIRC?

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    Regular Member JustaShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan6679 View Post
    IIRC?
    If I Recall Correctly
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    Thanks. These forums and their short language. Haha

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    Regular Member JustaShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan6679 View Post
    Thanks. These forums and their short language. Haha
    YW (You're Welcome)
    Christian, Husband, Father
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    Anything I post in these forums is my personal opinion formed by my own interpretation of the topic.
    IANAL and anything I say is not intended to be nor should it be taken as legal advice.

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    Personally, If a store refuses me to carry, open or concealed, I will refuse to spend my money there. But that is just me.

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    Here's something I have always wondered about. Supposing I'm carrying concealed and I walk into my bank who has a no guns sign on the door. While I'm in line or with the teller, someone comes in and holds up the bank. Same situation at a mall if someone pulls a gun somewhere in a mall with a no guns sign. Let's say I see a chance and I pull my gun and shoot the SOB dead.

    What would happen to me? Would I still be cited for non-criminal tresspass or face other charges since I carried against the bank or mall's no gun policy?

    With all the crap going on these days, I'd like to have a clear conscience should I need to come to someone's defense.



    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Humphries View Post
    It is technically legal to carry at the mall. However, the Tulsa malls have "no gun" signs. The signs do not have the weight of law. If the management or their representative ask you to leave, leave. If you refuse, a sworn law enforcement officer can be called. The officer will cite you for criminal trespass ($300) and arrest you if you continue to refuse to leave. This scenario is much more likely with open carry than concealed carry. Recent changes in the SDA clarified the "no gun" signs and policies.

    www.concealedcarrycoweta.weebly.com

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    Regular Member glock22oc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerGuy57 View Post
    Here's something I have always wondered about. Supposing I'm carrying concealed and I walk into my bank who has a no guns sign on the door. While I'm in line or with the teller, someone comes in and holds up the bank. Same situation at a mall if someone pulls a gun somewhere in a mall with a no guns sign. Let's say I see a chance and I pull my gun and shoot the SOB dead.

    What would happen to me? Would I still be cited for non-criminal tresspass or face other charges since I carried against the bank or mall's no gun policy?

    With all the crap going on these days, I'd like to have a clear conscience should I need to come to someone's defense.

    I would guess that if you were justified to shoot, there would not be anything to charge you with. Bank or mall policy are not law, just their policy. And if I read the trespass law corectly, you must be asked to leave and then refuse to do so, before you can be cited for trespassing.

    But you never know when you will get a cop and or district attorney that has a beef with citizens carrying guns. They might try to trump up something on you, just to make your life hell for a while, until your lawyer beats it. I feel that most of the DA's and cops are pretty good guys and will do what is right and legal. But there is always that chance of running into a bad apple.

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    Regular Member Oklapatriot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glock22oc View Post
    I would guess that if you were justified to shoot, there would not be anything to charge you with. Bank or mall policy are not law, just their policy. And if I read the trespass law corectly, you must be asked to leave and then refuse to do so, before you can be cited for trespassing.

    But you never know when you will get a cop and or district attorney that has a beef with citizens carrying guns. They might try to trump up something on you, just to make your life hell for a while, until your lawyer beats it. I feel that most of the DA's and cops are pretty good guys and will do what is right and legal. But there is always that chance of running into a bad apple.
    The "justified" thing comes in to play here, if I remember my class instruction correctly, you are not a law enforcement officer and would probably only be justified if you or your family were in imminent danger of being harmed. If the shooting was taking place a distance from you I don't think your are authorized to go in that direction and intervene. I know this sounds weird, but I think those are the rules.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oklapatriot View Post
    The "justified" thing comes in to play here, if I remember my class instruction correctly, you are not a law enforcement officer and would probably only be justified if you or your family were in imminent danger of being harmed. If the shooting was taking place a distance from you I don't think your are authorized to go in that direction and intervene. I know this sounds weird, but I think those are the rules.
    Title 21, Section 1289.25, Paragraph D reads as follows:
    A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force, if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
    If you believe anyone around you will suffer death or great bodily harm, you may act. You have to remember that if you act on behalf of another person, you step into their shoes, so as long as they would have been able to defend themselves legally, you can defend them as well.
    I am not a lawyer and nothing I say should be accepted as legal advice

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    Regular Member Oklapatriot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrdware View Post
    Title 21, Section 1289.25, Paragraph D reads as follows:


    If you believe anyone around you will suffer death or great bodily harm, you may act. You have to remember that if you act on behalf of another person, you step into their shoes, so as long as they would have been able to defend themselves legally, you can defend them as well.
    As I read that statute I can almost see what the lawyer instructing our class (H&H) was talking about. It implies that YOU must be attacked personally, or the incident must be fairly close to you such that you feel personally in danger. Don't get me wrong, I would probably step up, but it would sure open a big can of worms.

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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Humphries View Post
    the Tulsa malls have "no gun" signs.]
    wait.... i thought those signs stopped criminals and mass shooters????????

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    Regular Member EhlerDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerGuy57 View Post
    Here's something I have always wondered about. Supposing I'm carrying concealed and I walk into my bank who has a no guns sign on the door. While I'm in line or with the teller, someone comes in and holds up the bank. Same situation at a mall if someone pulls a gun somewhere in a mall with a no guns sign. Let's say I see a chance and I pull my gun and shoot the SOB dead.

    What would happen to me? Would I still be cited for non-criminal tresspass or face other charges since I carried against the bank or mall's no gun policy?

    With all the crap going on these days, I'd like to have a clear conscience should I need to come to someone's defense.
    With my luck the guy two rows over will also have a gun and think I am part of the hold up and shoot me.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Glock 1st fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerGuy57 View Post
    Here's something I have always wondered about. Supposing I'm carrying concealed and I walk into my bank who has a no guns sign on the door. While I'm in line or with the teller, someone comes in and holds up the bank. Same situation at a mall if someone pulls a gun somewhere in a mall with a no guns sign. Let's say I see a chance and I pull my gun and shoot the SOB dead.

    What would happen to me? Would I still be cited for non-criminal tresspass or face other charges since I carried against the bank or mall's no gun policy?

    With all the crap going on these days, I'd like to have a clear conscience should I need to come to someone's defense.
    Why would you be charged if you did nothing wrong. With the sign it would be a warning on not welcome with a firearm but signs carry minimal weight in that a bank may not want you to carry. The law appears to still require a formal request directed at you personally to leave.

    While some states don't care what the excuse is the sign is the sign it appears that okahoma recognizes many people can't read and many more have difficulities comprehending basic symbols such as a gun with a line through it.

    Now I use the word appears lightly because I'm not by a book or computer to research the law at this moment so I could be wrong just saying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan6679 View Post
    Is it legal and or acceptable to open carry at a mall? Let's say a mall in tulsa. After see the mall seige of Kenya, my thoughts of malls have changed.
    To double back a bit...
    From my understanding, whatever the individual store's policy, they are leasing mall owned property and have to follow it's no-gun policy lead even if allowed elsewhere. The space is still private property even if open to public use (for instance, even without shopping.) Applies even if you enter from a separate exterior entrance.
    Utica Square here in Tulsa is the same way: if an officer sees or responds to a call about MWG, property management requires they request you return to lock the weapon in your vehicle or leave. Of course, the mall doesn't want any at all. I happen to know that the Square ONLY has a policy about open.
    Any property not opened "by the public" is private, however much available for their use.

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