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Thread: Typhoon Haiyan: gun culture of the Philippines hinders relief efforts. UK Telegraph

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    Typhoon Haiyan: gun culture of the Philippines hinders relief efforts. UK Telegraph

    "There are 3.9 million guns - legal and illegal - held by civilians in the Philippines, or about 4.7 per 100 people, which isn't that high in global terms. But people are prepared to use them. The murder rate is among the highest in Asia and three times that of the United States, at 8.9 homicides per 100,000. Illegal guns are not just carried by criminal gangs and insurgents. They also belong to civilians and politicians who keep private armies. Earlier this year the president boosted his credibility by winning top prize in a shooting competition, even as television reported a major shootout between police and thieves on a motorway.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...f-efforts.html

    Legal and illegal conflated. UN invaders show-up in my neighborhood and I will use my legal guns to protect US.
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    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
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    Philippine Gun Culture cause of slow relief efforts

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...f-efforts.html

    From the UK perspective on why gun ownership is such a bad thing. Want to say Philippines used t/b a US territory, but no thread there.
    Last edited by HPmatt; 11-12-2013 at 10:56 PM. Reason: return key got away from me
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Stereotype anti hit piece - blames the tool, rather than the person or more correctly the person's action.
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    Thanks for the merge.
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    The local politicians are discussing the fact that looting is [was] taking place and there was no effective civil order. Civil order was restored before the local and federal police forces could get through the storm-closed roads. And relief convoys prudentially waited until the battle(s) between those representing civil order and those representing free-booting robbery were concluded - apparently wth the withdrawal/reduction/elimination of the free-booters - and the relief supplies could get to those in actual need.

    Would someone please point out the problem with that?

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Another country suffering the effects of Euro/American imperialism.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Global warming did it, read it on the Internet.

    Euro/American? Nope, 300 years of Spanish rule. We Americans weren't there long enough to screw them up. Besides, without us there would not have been a large demand for San Miguel beer. We Americans single handedly saved their free market economy, right up to the point they kicked us out, for being Americans.

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    I do not believe that the Spaniards, the Americans nor any other invader has nothing to do with another country's failure or success. The people and the values they have (influenced or not)as a collective are responsible for their fate.

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    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    Ahhh..yes .. that dreadful gun culture .............when the common sense gun control model of the North Korean Dear Leader's machine gun squads..............is working out so well for the North Korean people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernymac View Post
    I do not believe that the Spaniards, the Americans nor any other invader has nothing to do with another country's failure or success. The people and the values they have (influenced or not)as a collective are responsible for their fate.
    +1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernymac View Post
    I do not believe that the Spaniards, the Americans nor any other invader has nothing to do with another country's failure or success. The people and the values they have (influenced or not)as a collective are responsible for their fate.
    Yes, read The Open Society and Its Enemies, and The Poverty of Historicism by Karl Popper.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Yes America never sets up puppet dictators and kill foreigners in their own lands.....
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Brace's Avatar
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    Colonialists can only really be gotten rid of by force, at least barring other circumstances like them fighting a world war at the time. The state of former colonies can be attributed to their bad ideologies, but the fact remains that the power vacuum that enabled these ideologies to come to prominence was made inevitable the moment the European powers made revolution the only way to assert self-determination and human rights.
    Last edited by Brace; 11-15-2013 at 02:43 PM.

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    Rank historicism. History is not a 'syllogism', and events are not its premises; we are its conclusion.

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/rank

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/historicism
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member Brace's Avatar
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    You're prone to overreach, aren't you? There was nothing like a hint of destiny in what I said. It didn't even concern the future. I'm sorry that discussing the causality behind events which have already occurred strikes you as some sort of stalinistic dogma or some kind of attempt to immanentize the eschaton or whatever, but that's your own abuse of philosophy, not mine.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brace View Post
    Colonialists can only really be gotten rid of by force, at least barring other circumstances like them fighting a world war at the time. The state of former colonies can be attributed to their bad ideologies, but the fact remains that the power vacuum that enabled these ideologies to come to prominence was made inevitable the moment the European powers made revolution the only way to assert self-determination and human rights.

    I don't believe in a "power vacuum". Just like there is no such thing as a rape vacuum, murder vaccuum or extortion vaccum. We cannot blame the victims for the acts of the aggressors.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Brace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    I don't believe in a "power vacuum". Just like there is no such thing as a rape vacuum, murder vaccuum or extortion vaccum. We cannot blame the victims for the acts of the aggressors.
    That's an interesting point. I can't think of any revolution that's ever had purely anarchist tendencies though. Usually they want to replace a bad government with a better government, and where ideology comes in is in determining whether the replacement government actually is better, or is worse, or simply applies the same level of violence to different groups ("meet the new boss, same as the old boss"). I'm not sure who you're calling the victims here though. Are the colonialists the victims? If so I disagree with that. If you mean the native inhabitants of former colonies who were subsequently disenfranchised and killed by the new regimes of their own countries, then yes those are victims. I don't see how I'm blaming them for anything though, or if so, how that would apply to me but not the people to whom I was responding. I want to be clear that I'm not supporting all of the regimes that followed colonial revolutions, just stating that the revolutions themselves seem both justified and predictable.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brace View Post
    That's an interesting point. I can't think of any revolution that's ever had purely anarchist tendencies though. Usually they want to replace a bad government with a better government, and where ideology comes in is in determining whether the replacement government actually is better, or is worse, or simply applies the same level of violence to different groups ("meet the new boss, same as the old boss"). I'm not sure who you're calling the victims here though. Are the colonialists the victims? If so I disagree with that. If you mean the native inhabitants of former colonies who were subsequently disenfranchised and killed by the new regimes of their own countries, then yes those are victims. I don't see how I'm blaming them for anything though, or if so, how that would apply to me but not the people to whom I was responding. I want to be clear that I'm not supporting all of the regimes that followed colonial revolutions, just stating that the revolutions themselves seem both justified and predictable.
    I didn't meant to be a contrarian to your point just ad my two sense.

    The victims I refer to are all who have to endure a government or power that was thrust upon them. The way I see it, it would be immoral and wrong for me to ever claim, a female (or any person) deserved to be raped by claiming there was a "rape" vacuum, or making any other illogical rationalization for the action of the aggressor, such as she was asking for it by dressing like that, she shouldn't have been out by herself, she should stay home after dark.....etc. It would be just as silly to excuse the rapist by saying they couldn't help their urges. Power is that, someone taking power or exercising power over others is someone who is the aggressor I realized several months ago, ( wrote about it might get published in our state Libertarian party newsletter) that the term power vacuum made no sense and was a rationalization, to get people to think that we should live with the aggressors in charge now because if we were free it creates a vacuum and would attract someone worse.

    Now you got me thinking about the colonial times, I would have to say that the colonist ( the people of the colonies) were the victims of British government, and then victims of the Federalist who thrust a national government upon them under the illusion they were protecting their liberties. I draw a similarity to what the U.S. did during and after the Spanish/American war, they were pretending to be their saviors yet killed hundreds of thousands of Filipinos who wanted independence from all imperialist, didn't allow the independence of the former Spanish colonies like Philippines, Cuba, and Puerto Rico and took them as "territories".

    Many revolutions have anarchist tendencies, unfortunately demagogues convince people how they are needed to secure their liberty or provide for them. The claim of some Brits especially when Americans realized they owed no allegiance to a man who claimed to be King, was "anarchy"! Benjamin Franklin was anti revolution/independence and very pro British yet he saw the turning of the tides and used that set himself up for his own benefit.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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