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Thread: OCing in a car

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    OCing in a car

    Sorry if this was already discussed here. I was wondering if you can leave your gun holstered when in your car if you do not have a ccdw, which I do not yet but will soon, or would that be considered concealed? Thanks for the help.

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    From KRS 527.020

    (8) A loaded or unloaded firearm or other deadly weapon shall not be deemed concealed on or about the person if it is located in any enclosed container, compartment, or storage space [regularly] installed as original equipment in a motor vehicle by its manufacturer, including but not limited to a glove compartment, center console, or seat pocket, regardless of whether said enclosed container, storage space, or compartment is locked, unlocked, or does not have a locking mechanism. No person or organization, public or private, shall prohibit a person from keeping a loaded or unloaded firearm or ammunition, or both, or other deadly weapon in a vehicle in accordance with the provisions of this subsection. Any attempt by a person or organization, public or private, to violate the provisions of this subsection may be the subject of an action for appropriate relief or for damages in a Circuit Court or District Court of competent jurisdiction. This subsection shall not apply to any person prohibited from possessing a firearm pursuant to KRS 527.040.
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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Thank you Shooter, but that statute does not answer the question fully.

    It is one of the most relevant statutes though. The law does not specially mention carry a firearm holstered in a vehicle.

    Without a statute stating that a holstered firearm in a vehicle is illegal, then it is assumed that it is legal.

    A officer did try the "Well I can't see it, so it must be concealed" route with me once. But didn't pursue past that statement.
    Last edited by 09jisaac; 11-14-2013 at 09:30 AM.
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    09jisaac, that is what I was wondering. I was reading through some of the stuff that kyglockster put up for down load and there were conflicts in a couple court cases one stated that the gun can not be considered cocealed if it is merely blocked from view by the body (I.e. sitting in your car I would think),however another case the court held that a gun could be considered cocealed even thou the grip was sticking out of the pocket, the arresting officer said he could not see it and the argument was that it could be seen by some one in another position which would also be sitting in your car. So, it was confusing. I have read the laws I can find and there really isn't much on OC mostly CC.

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    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rs3604 View Post
    09jisaac, that is what I was wondering. I was reading through some of the stuff that kyglockster put up for down load and there were conflicts in a couple court cases one stated that the gun can not be considered cocealed if it is merely blocked from view by the body (I.e. sitting in your car I would think),however another case the court held that a gun could be considered cocealed even thou the grip was sticking out of the pocket, the arresting officer said he could not see it and the argument was that it could be seen by some one in another position which would also be sitting in your car. So, it was confusing. I have read the laws I can find and there really isn't much on OC mostly CC.
    That's solely because laws are meant to restrict what people can do; For the most part, to highlight what the people, and the government, cannot do. Kentucky is a Constitutional Open Carry state. If you review Holland v. Commonwealth, to paraphrase the judge, "As long as the weapon is worn outside of a persons jacket, or shirt, and in plain view, then it is considered openly carried". I would link you, but it seems KC3 removed the ruling from their website, or it's just hidden away in a private folder, cuz pinging the address i have bookmarked comes up with nothing.

    Now, I'm not a lawyer, but, I'd say that as long as your selt belt don't cover any part of the pistol, and holster, then you'd be good to go.

    Or, just do what I do, and what is perfectly legal. Mount a craptastic holster to your dashboard. I use plastic screws cuz I don't much care about the interior, but you could use velcro, or whatever. And when you get in your vehicle, make the transition from hip-holster carry, to putting the pistol in the holster and snap it secure on the dashboard. No one can deny that it's in plain view on the dashboard, and since it's plainly visible, it's openly carried on or -about- your person, in you vehicle.

    Heck, just put it on the front seat if you don't want to mess with fastening a holster to your dashboard. The main thing with 527, is determining that although you can put your gun in the glove box, or console, or map pocket, and it may be hidden from view, but it is LEGALLY considered un-concealed. Other than that, 527.020 is no bearing on if having a pistol in the front passenger seat, or on your lap, or sitting on your head, is bad, or not. Although it might be a bad idea to have the pistol actually on your head, unless you own a square glock or something where you could actually balance it, use your own judgement, and make sure the safety is on before putting any pistol on or near your head.
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    Drake, yeah i just been putting it in my center console for now. I think I might try the balance on the head thing, sound like it could be exciting, really exciting if i have to stop quick . I just can't seem to find any real ruling on holstered in a car. thanks for the info.

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    That is exactly how we got console and compartment carry as OC.
    Sounds like you know a good story. Care to share it?
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    I remember that case. I probably violate the law since my gun is out of view when Im sitting in my truck and the center console is folded down.

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    Gutshot, good point on the court cases, they do effect the law regularly and how it's worded and changed..

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    Don't forget the 1000 foot GFSZ ("Gun Free School Zone") when Ocing in the car or on foot without a CDWL.
    I am not a lawyer, I study the history of gun control laws.

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    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest View Post
    Don't forget the 1000 foot GFSZ ("Gun Free School Zone") when Ocing in the car or on foot without a CDWL.
    Don't take this as being 100%, but I'm pretty sure if you live in a small town like myself, where a main road goes by about two hundred feet from the school house, and you're OC'ing while driving on that road, you're fine. I don't know of the case law, or statute law, but I'm certain that if a city, county, state, or U.S. road system passes within 1000' of a school, and you're driving on said road system, then its not a violation of the School Massacre Zone. And there is a statute that lets you conceal carry, or have a firearm in your car, on school property, but you need a CCDW to do so.

    I'm too baked busy to find the info for ya
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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Birdman View Post
    --Moderator deleted quote--
    What in the hell does that have to do with this topic?
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 11-16-2013 at 09:43 PM.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
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    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post

    If you have a concealed carry license (or whatever they call it in your home state) the GFSZ does not apply to you, period. If you don't have one, it applies on highways, streets, roads, sidewalks and any other public property. It does not apply on private property. If you don't have a concealed carry license you can not be on any public property, inside or outside of your vehicle, within 1000' of a school, period. It does not matter what any state statute says. Federal law and state law differ all the time. You must follow both to be 100% legal. As I have said over and over, the chances of you being charged with this crime are near zero.
    1. Well, appearently My state, and your state, are two completely different states that happen to share the same name, and geographical locations! Lol.

    2. So, everyone who doesn't have a CC license is committing a serious crime everytime they drive from one end of Owingsville, to the other, on US60 while having a gun in their vehicle, because the road that is vital, and is the road that I and others use, to get to the Bank, and court house, and other services, and passes within 200feet of the Middle school, and within 700feet of the Highschool?

    Awesome! Hey, SP, lets get the sheriff and fatty Town police to put up a firearms checkpoint at each end of the town, to check for firearms being kept illegally in vehicles that drive through our town! Wait, no, we can't do that cuz being LACs, we'd have to turn ourselves in for driving through town with a pistol in our gloveboxes, or on our dashboards! Darn it.
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    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    What in the hell does that have to do with this topic?
    I think he confused my signature text and qoute box for being apart of my comment, and thought to respond to it.

    Or he didn't confuse my signature for part of my comment, and just felt like reminding me why I open carry and hate half the people on this forum.
    I'm a proud openly gay open carrier~
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    The gay comment was totally uncalled for and I am sorry you had to put up with that on a post I started drake. As for the GFSZ, I knew about that and agree with it being a poorly written and conceived law. I also doubt any LEO would enforce it unless there were other reasons for charges already, but maybe we could get a LEO's POV on this I know there are a few here.

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post

    Awesome! Hey, SP, lets get the sheriff and fatty Town police to put up a firearms checkpoint at each end of the town, to check for firearms being kept illegally in vehicles that drive through our town! Wait, no, we can't do that cuz being LACs, we'd have to turn ourselves in for driving through town with a pistol in our gloveboxes, or on our dashboards! Darn it.
    I have my CCDW and so do you, so we are exempt from the 1000 ft law. That is one reason why I got my CCDW because my house is only about 800 ft. from the middle school. Here is a link that tells how a person can be exempt from this law. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Fre...es_Act_of_1990
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
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    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Birdman View Post
    You even admitted you are full of hate and bigotry. Homosexuals are the biggest bigots and haters there are. They hate every thing the Lord stands for and died for and choose to live a deviant lifestyle contrary to the laws of nature and the natural world.
    How so? Because I expressed discontent for stupid laws that I don't believe in? Homosexuals may be the biggest bigots and haters that mankind has ever seen, but I don't care. This forum is about the legal, lawful open carry of handguns. I respect your opinions on the subject, and not to be rude, but no one cares. And by using religion on me to get me to hate or love something that I don't, that doesn't work on me. I'm Agnostic. By the way, I had a child out of wedlock and I fornicated with loose women prior to getting married. And I'm a FreeMason just in case you hate those too. You keep calling everyone else bigots and haters, but it seems that you are the only one here spewing hatred.
    Last edited by self preservation; 11-16-2013 at 02:31 PM.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
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    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Ok, let's go there if people want to use religion, I'm sure while you are spouting off about god hating gays and it's against his will blah,blah,blah that you are sitting there in clothing made of one kind of thread because if it's like cotton poly then you should be stoned. I know you never worked on a sunday because if you have then you should be put to death and remember you have to freeze on sunday in the winter cause god says to light no fire in your home. I pray that you don't have a garden with different crops side by side 'cause big no no.Don't eat meat over three days old,wait that means no more store bought,better slaughter it yourself 'cause after three days it is to be burned. I could keep going but I would assume just for these few that you too are "unclean" and should be put to death according to gods will.So, are you done being a hypocrite, can we get back to the subject of my original post, 'cause if you want to be a bigot be sure you live the good life before you speak.Sorry to all others on here who have had to deal with this in my post. Thanks to those who have replied on topic some great info. And to our friend Drakez07,please don't think this reflects on you or in anyway is directed towards you it is simply to make a point, I have no problem with how you live your life and should we ever meet would love to buy you a cup of coffee for taking the high road here.

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Birdman View Post
    --Moderator deleted quote--.
    Then you replied to me by mistake. No biggie. I don't why Drake desires to express his sexuality in his signature, but he does. Even though you or anyone else may find offense to it, we must keep in mind that he is free to do so and that decision is his to make and not ours.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 11-16-2013 at 09:46 PM.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    I need to get my CDWL, I live close a school myself. Its just a matter of finding a day to go for the class, Saturdays are busy for me and that is when it seems the classes are being held. I need to find out if they have these classes in the middle of the week.
    I am not a lawyer, I study the history of gun control laws.

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    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rs3604 View Post
    Ok, let's go there if people want to use religion, I'm sure while you are spouting off about god hating gays and it's against his will blah,blah,blah that you are sitting there in clothing made of one kind of thread because if it's like cotton poly then you should be stoned. I know you never worked on a sunday because if you have then you should be put to death and remember you have to freeze on sunday in the winter cause god says to light no fire in your home. I pray that you don't have a garden with different crops side by side 'cause big no no.Don't eat meat over three days old,wait that means no more store bought,better slaughter it yourself 'cause after three days it is to be burned. I could keep going but I would assume just for these few that you too are "unclean" and should be put to death according to gods will.So, are you done being a hypocrite, can we get back to the subject of my original post, 'cause if you want to be a bigot be sure you live the good life before you speak.Sorry to all others on here who have had to deal with this in my post. Thanks to those who have replied on topic some great info. And to our friend Drakez07,please don't think this reflects on you or in anyway is directed towards you it is simply to make a point, I have no problem with how you live your life and should we ever meet would love to buy you a cup of coffee for taking the high road here.
    Well, thank you for the offer to buy me coffee for taking the so-called high road, but to be truthful with you, I've been chasing after the tornado outbreak in Illinois, and Indiana all day today, just got home half an hour ago after a long solo drive from Indianapolis, IN with a couple tornadoes on on my tail clear down to L-ville! So, I haven't been taking the high road, just the road that takes me into the path of a tornado so I can take some pictures of it, and doing my SKYWARN Spotter role!

    But, if I may say, Don't appologize for what so-and-so may or may not have said, it doesn't matter, and honestly I don't care what he, or anyone else has to say about my sexuality, or how I lead my life. He's just another Brick in the wall, and a troll, and when you feed trolls, they keep coming back... Kinda like Republicans. LOL I kid, I kid... SILENCE!~ I KEEL YEW! >.> <.< --.

    @Self-prez; I express my sexuality because I can, because I want to, because I like to, and because I like people to know that Open Carry advocates are not always the stereotypical gun nuts (White, christian, straight, rednecks). And, hey, women like a guy who can be as sensitive as them, dress as good or better than them, enjoy different food choices, can cry at every chick flick, and check their breasts for lumps without popping a stiffy, AND looks fashionable while carrying a Brick of a gun! Also, a freemason huh? Got any openings? I'd love to get in and be apart of the New World Order and see the strings behind every nation and leader! Maybe never have to worry about actually running for an election, put my name on the ticket and watch all the recently deceased people pile votes up for me! I'm kidding though, the FreeMasons may be the Waffen-SS of the capitalist world, but I can respect our spank-happy overlords!
    I'm a proud openly gay open carrier~
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    Quote Originally Posted by rs3604 View Post
    Sorry if this was already discussed here. I was wondering if you can leave your gun holstered when in your car if you do not have a ccdw, which I do not yet but will soon, or would that be considered concealed? Thanks for the help.
    I would suggest you read the thread pinned at the top of the Kentucky sub-forum. In that thread you will find a paper on open carry in Kentucky with some relevant case law on the subject. Actually I will go ahead and post it for you here: https://docjt.ky.gov/legal/documents...Carryingv2.pdf

    Just because a firearm is concealed from "view" does not mean it is concealed per the definition of the law. As long as it can be seen from some angle it is not concealed in Kentucky. I would suggest you read through ALL of the case law documents posted in that thread I mentioned. They can be found here: https://docjt.ky.gov/legal/
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Thanks, kyglockster some good info.

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