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Thread: Radio Host who speaks for personal freedom.

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    Radio Host who speaks for personal freedom.

    Doc. Thompson who I listen to every morning is going to be in Charlotte tomorrow. Im going to be there however it is at a place that serves booze so bummer but there will many like minded people there and maybe we can network and help protect our right to open carry. Heres the info hope to see some of you there.
    http://docthompson.com/tour/charlotte-nc-11-14-13/

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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USMCRET. View Post
    Doc. Thompson who I listen to every morning is going to be in Charlotte tomorrow. Im going to be there however it is at a place that serves booze so bummer but there will many like minded people there and maybe we can network and help protect our right to open carry. Heres the info hope to see some of you there.
    http://docthompson.com/tour/charlotte-nc-11-14-13/

    Get the host for the meeting to allow OC and you will be ok.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USMCRET. View Post
    Doc. Thompson who I listen to every morning is going to be in Charlotte tomorrow. Im going to be there however it is at a place that serves booze so bummer but there will many like minded people there and maybe we can network and help protect our right to open carry. Heres the info hope to see some of you there.
    http://docthompson.com/tour/charlotte-nc-11-14-13/
    Doc Thompson is a class act - used to see him around Richmond, Va. a lot before he moved. He spoke at numerous VCDL meetings and rallies.

    I really do miss him.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Yea I know I told them it would have been great in a place where you could open carry but Im sure their venues were booked in advance. Plus many places that have a ballroom and food also serve booze. They are on the Blaze now 6am to 9am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by USMCRET. View Post
    Yea I know I told them it would have been great in a place where you could open carry but Im sure their venues were booked in advance. Plus many places that have a ballroom and food also serve booze. They are on the Blaze now 6am to 9am.
    NC now allows guns in bars and restaurants | abc11.com

    abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=9269537‎
    Oct 1, 2013 - It is now legal for people with concealed carry permits to take their guns into bars and restaurants that serve alcohol across North Carolina.

    I'm not sure if those with permits can OC in these establishments or not - need additional clarification.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    NC now allows guns in bars and restaurants | abc11.com

    abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=9269537‎
    Oct 1, 2013 - It is now legal for people with concealed carry permits to take their guns into bars and restaurants that serve alcohol across North Carolina.

    I'm not sure if those with permits can OC in these establishments or not - need additional clarification.
    As before, someone "...participating in the event..." can carry at a place that charges admission and/or sells and serves alcohol IF they have the permission of "...the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event." per NCGS 14-269.3(b) in addition to the newly added permission for CHP holders.

    (As always, IANAL)
    Last edited by carolina guy; 11-19-2013 at 09:50 PM.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    NC now allows guns in bars and restaurants | abc11.com

    abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=9269537‎
    Oct 1, 2013 - It is now legal for people with concealed carry permits to take their guns into bars and restaurants that serve alcohol across North Carolina.

    I'm not sure if those with permits can OC in these establishments or not - need additional clarification.
    A permit has nothing to do with OC it only pertains to CC. OC has to stand on its own merit.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Grapeshot

    NC now allows guns in bars and restaurants | abc11.com

    abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=9269537‎
    Oct 1, 2013 - It is now legal for people with concealed carry permits to take their guns into bars and restaurants that serve alcohol across North Carolina.

    I'm not sure if those with permits can OC in these establishments or not - need additional clarification.


    Quote Originally Posted by American Patriot View Post
    A permit has nothing to do with OC it only pertains to CC. OC has to stand on its own merit.
    That is not always the case - it is my understanding that a permit is not required in NC to OC in a restaurant serving alcohol - applies equally in other circumstances.
    http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=150

    http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=103
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by American Patriot View Post
    A permit has nothing to do with OC it only pertains to CC. OC has to stand on its own merit.
    OC does stand on it's own...if the place ALLOWS carry, regardless of a CHP, you are allowed to carry there. See my post above.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolina guy View Post
    OC does stand on it's own...if the place ALLOWS carry, regardless of a CHP, you are allowed to carry there. See my post above.
    It is not that simple.

    Private property owners may allow CC, but not allow OC at their discretion - true?

    Work place rules: A business may welcome customers carrying, but not allow employees to OC, even if they allow them to CC.

    Get in your vehicle OCing w/o a permit and let us know how that works out if you are stopped by a LEO.

    Then there is Chapel Hill's minimum size restriction. Durham requires registration of handguns - if I recall properly, they were grandfathered on that.

    Also:
    N.C. cities choose stricter gun law
    Cities that have passed an "opt-in" ordinance:
    • Smithfield
    • Marion
    • Cary
    • Raleigh
    • Chapel Hill
    • Garner
    • Winston-Salem
    • Asheville
    • Kernersville
    • Greenville
    • Gaston County
    • Fayetteville

    Cities that are considering it:
    • Havelock
    • Durham
    http://www.indyweek.com/indyweek/nc-...nt?oid=2723824

    NC universities inform students about new guns on campus law
    Concealed handgun permit holders can leave a gun in their car on campus as long as the car is locked and the weapon is not in plain sight.
    http://triangle.news14.com/content/n...-on-campus-law

    All I am trying to communicate is that in spite of preemption, the methods of legal carry are not completely settled in NC. - Wanting to believe that OC is totally golden doesn't make it so.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    It is not that simple.
    Get in your vehicle OCing w/o a permit and let us know how that works out if you are stopped by a LEO.
    I OC in my car all the time with the firearm on my hip in an open carry holster with the seat belt fastened. And yes I have been stopped a few times and have never had a problem. It is not illegal and the cop will find he or she is fighting a losing battle.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    I never said that OC in a vehicle was illegal, but there have been problems associated with it when the LEO was either not informed immediately or took exception to it.

    RV/Car Carry Without A Permit/License
    Transporting Weapons
    Roy Cooper Attorney General

    Given this general prohibition of carrying concealed weapons, individuals must be ever vigilant to ensure that their particular situation cannot be construed as concealing a weapon either on or about them without being properly authorized to do so with a valid North Carolina concealed handgun permit.

    Therefore, the person's accessibility to the weapon is of prime importance. It is for these reasons, that when transporting a weapon in a vehicle, even greater care must be exercised to ensure that the weapon is not concealed and within the ready access to an occupant of the vehicle. North Carolina law does not specifically address how to transport a weapon in an automobile. Therefore, the central question becomes: when is the weapon concealed and readily accessible to an occupant of the automobile? Obviously, a weapon would be concealed and readily accessible, and therefore in violation of our law, if it were placed in such areas of a vehicle as, under the seat of the automobile; in a bag in the back seat; in an unlocked glovecompartment; or in some other manner is covered or hidden within the easy reach of an occupant of the vehicle.

    A previous opinion from this office was that a weapon would not be concealed if it were placed in a locked glove compartment, unless the key to the glove compartment was in the lock and the person was in close proximity and had ready access to it. A concern with this mode of transportation however is that it is quite susceptible to different interpretations, based on the various factors involved. Therefore, this may not be the most legally defensible
    method of transporting a weapon, and is discouraged.

    While a weapon carried openly in an automobile would not be concealed, there are other problems attendant to this method of carrying a weapon.
    The principal drawback, of course, is in the event of a person being stopped by a law enforcement official, the officer may not readily know that person's purpose and intent for carrying a weapon. As such, it is imperative that a person immediately notify an officer of the presence of any weapon in the automobile, for the officer's and the vehicle's occupants' safety.

    http://www.eliteammunition.net/f/USRVCarCarry.pdf

    Last edited by Grapeshot; 12-04-2013 at 07:48 AM. Reason: Added link - I forget it earlier
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    alas, grapeshot, I must ask for a cite for the information you are presenting as it does not seem to match the information released by the AG.

    http://www.ncsheriffs.org/documents/...rms%20Laws.pdf

    thanks
    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    alas, grapeshot, I must ask for a cite for the information you are presenting as it does not seem to match the information released by the AG.

    http://www.ncsheriffs.org/documents/...rms%20Laws.pdf

    thanks
    ipse
    Sorry - I inadvertently did not include the links. See below and I will go back and add the PDF link to the other post.

    http://www.ncgunowners.com/forum/sho....php?tid=31867

    http://www.eliteammunition.net/f/USRVCarCarry.pdf

    I fear that I am guilty of giving the impression that one should not OC in a vehicle w/o a permit in NC - that is not my opinion. I OC every time I am in your state, lived in NC for years and thoroughly enjoyed it, but that was a long time ago before the many changes/improvements in the laws.

    I had a unique situation then in that I was a "special officer" and carried papers from a police chief (Chief Henry [Hank] McKiernan of Davidson) so authorizing me to function as a LEO including carrying a gun (don't think that exception even exists any more). Unstated was the intent to allow me to carry 24/7 everywhere I went - the restrictions on non-LEO were horrendous back then. I knew a lot of the upper echelon in the Charlotte Mecklenburg agencies - I was a product of the good-old-boy network.

    When I returned to VA, I continued to carry (it was a CWP back then), became an instructor at a state academy, and discovered OC was not statutorily restricted here. My personal acquaintance with NC laws is not nearly as accurate/up to date as those of you are actually living with them and dealing with them on a day-to-day basis, so I will defer to you in most instances.

    BTW - IMHO GRNC is doing a great job of aggressively moving the ball forward.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 12-04-2013 at 07:58 AM. Reason: Fixed
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    It is not that simple.

    Private property owners may allow CC, but not allow OC at their discretion - true?

    Work place rules: A business may welcome customers carrying, but not allow employees to OC, even if they allow them to CC.
    I believe you misunderstood what I was saying...I was saying that a person MAY OC in a bar/restaurant that serves alcohol or an establishment IF the owner/manager/organizer ALLOWS it. This is how the law is written. Not sure how or what it has to do with CC or employees carrying.

    And to answer your question...FALSE with a proviso...I do NOT believe that the owner/manager/organizer may "allow" someone else to CC w/o a CHP. That is NOT one of the exceptions in 14-269. Note: IANAL. But, if the person has a CHP, they could certainly allow CC, but not OC. Even vice versa. Why not?


    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Get in your vehicle OCing w/o a permit and let us know how that works out if you are stopped by a LEO.
    Covered by others.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Then there is Chapel Hill's minimum size restriction. Durham requires registration of handguns - if I recall properly, they were grandfathered on that.
    This is "old" law in NC, and not likely to ever be replicated, but hopefully repealed at some point. (*shrug*)


    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Also:
    N.C. cities choose stricter gun law
    Cities that have passed an "opt-in" ordinance:
    • Smithfield
    • Marion
    • Cary
    • Raleigh
    • Chapel Hill
    • Garner
    • Winston-Salem
    • Asheville
    • Kernersville
    • Greenville
    • Gaston County
    • Fayetteville

    Cities that are considering it:
    • Havelock
    • Durham
    http://www.indyweek.com/indyweek/nc-...nt?oid=2723824
    Gotta becareful with that link...it is a few years old, and with the passage of HB937, the areas that cities and counties may restrict has been greatly reduced. In fact, several cities have already been threatened with lawsuit by GRNC for not following the new law and remove improperly posted gun-free areas.

    § 14-415.23. Statewide uniformity. changed from:

    § 14-415.23. Statewide uniformity.
    It is the intent of the General Assembly to prescribe a uniform system for the regulation of legally carrying a concealed handgun. To insure uniformity, no political subdivisions, boards, or agencies of the State nor any county, city, municipality, municipal corporation, town, township, village, nor any department or agency thereof, may enact ordinances, rules, or regulations concerning legally carrying a concealed handgun. A unit of local government may adopt an ordinance to permit the posting of a prohibition against carrying a concealed handgun, in accordance with G.S. 14-415.11(c), on local government buildings and their appurtenant premises. A unit of local government may adopt an ordinance to prohibit, by posting, the carrying of a concealed handgun on municipal and county recreational facilities that are specifically identified by the unit of local government. If a unit of local government adopts such an ordinance with regard to recreational facilities, then the concealed handgun permittee may, nevertheless, secure the handgun in a locked vehicle within the trunk, glove box, or other enclosed compartment or area within or on the motor vehicle. For purposes of this section, the term "recreational facilities" includes only the following: a playground, an athletic field, a swimming pool, and an athletic facility. (1995, c. 398, s. 1; 2011-268, s. 21(b).)
    to:


    § 14‑415.23. Statewide uniformity.
    (a) It is the intent of the General Assembly to prescribe a uniform system for the regulation of legally carrying a concealed handgun. To insure uniformity, no political subdivisions, boards, or agencies of the State nor any county, city, municipality, municipal corporation, town, township, village, nor any department or agency thereof, may enact ordinances, rules, or regulations concerning legally carrying a concealed handgun. A unit of local government may adopt an ordinance to permit the posting of a prohibition against carrying a concealed handgun, in accordance with G.S. 14‑415.11(c), on local government buildings and their appurtenant premises.
    (b) A unit of local government may adopt an ordinance to prohibit, by posting, the carrying of a concealed handgun on municipal and county recreational facilities that are specifically identified by the unit of local government. If a unit of local government adopts such an ordinance with regard to recreational facilities, then the concealed handgun permittee may, nevertheless, secure the handgun in a locked vehicle within the trunk, glove box, or other enclosed compartment or area within or on the motor vehicle.
    (c) For purposes of this section, the term "recreational facilities" includes only the following:
    (1) An athletic field, including any appurtenant facilities such as restrooms, during an organized athletic event if the field had been scheduled for use with the municipality or county office responsible for operation of the park or recreational area.
    (2) A swimming pool, including any appurtenant facilities used for dressing, storage of personal items, or other uses relating to the swimming pool.
    (3) A facility used for athletic events, including, but not limited to, a gymnasium.
    (d) For the purposes of this section, the term "recreational facilities" does not include any greenway, designated biking or walking path, an area that is customarily used as a walkway or bike path although not specifically designated for such use, open areas or fields where athletic events may occur unless the area qualifies as an "athletic field" pursuant to subdivision (1) of subsection (c) of this section, and any other area that is not specifically described in subsection (c) of this section."
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post

    NC universities inform students about new guns on campus law
    Concealed handgun permit holders can leave a gun in their car on campus as long as the car is locked and the weapon is not in plain sight.
    http://triangle.news14.com/content/n...-on-campus-law

    All I am trying to communicate is that in spite of preemption, the methods of legal carry are not completely settled in NC. - Wanting to believe that OC is totally golden doesn't make it so.
    Never said (even once) that it was "completely settled" in NC.
    Last edited by carolina guy; 12-04-2013 at 10:13 AM. Reason: because
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    I never said that OC in a vehicle was illegal, but there have been problems associated with it when the LEO was either not informed immediately or took exception to it.

    RV/Car Carry Without A Permit/License
    Transporting Weapons
    Roy Cooper Attorney General

    Given this general prohibition of carrying concealed weapons, individuals must be ever vigilant to ensure that their particular situation cannot be construed as concealing a weapon either on or about them without being properly authorized to do so with a valid North Carolina concealed handgun permit.

    Therefore, the person's accessibility to the weapon is of prime importance. It is for these reasons, that when transporting a weapon in a vehicle, even greater care must be exercised to ensure that the weapon is not concealed and within the ready access to an occupant of the vehicle. North Carolina law does not specifically address how to transport a weapon in an automobile. Therefore, the central question becomes: when is the weapon concealed and readily accessible to an occupant of the automobile? Obviously, a weapon would be concealed and readily accessible, and therefore in violation of our law, if it were placed in such areas of a vehicle as, under the seat of the automobile; in a bag in the back seat; in an unlocked glovecompartment; or in some other manner is covered or hidden within the easy reach of an occupant of the vehicle.

    A previous opinion from this office was that a weapon would not be concealed if it were placed in a locked glove compartment, unless the key to the glove compartment was in the lock and the person was in close proximity and had ready access to it. A concern with this mode of transportation however is that it is quite susceptible to different interpretations, based on the various factors involved. Therefore, this may not be the most legally defensible
    method of transporting a weapon, and is discouraged.

    While a weapon carried openly in an automobile would not be concealed, there are other problems attendant to this method of carrying a weapon.
    The principal drawback, of course, is in the event of a person being stopped by a law enforcement official, the officer may not readily know that person's purpose and intent for carrying a weapon. As such, it is imperative that a person immediately notify an officer of the presence of any weapon in the automobile, for the officer's and the vehicle's occupants' safety.

    http://www.eliteammunition.net/f/USRVCarCarry.pdf

    thanks grapeshot for posting the cite, which unfortunately appears to be a bastardized text what the NC Attorney General actually posted on http://www.ncsheriffs.org/documents/...rms%20Laws.pdf and the honorable Special Attorney General John Aldridge III briefed during NC DoJ presentations last fall. I am afraid these inconsistencies could mislead someone on their actions while carrying their firearm in their vehicle on the Tarheel's highways and byways.
    specifics: Bold is what was omitted...

    Quote Section III D Transporting Weapons: Given this general prohibition of carrying concealed weapons, individuals must be ever vigilant to ensure their particular situation cannot be construed as concealing a weapon, either on or about them, without being properly authorized to do so with a valid North Carolina, or recognized out-of-state concealed handgun permit.

    Your entire second paragraph is not in the NC Attorney's released document.

    Therefore, the permittee’s accessibility to the weapon is of prime importance. It is unlawful to transport a weapon (absent a proper permit) that is BOTH concealed and readily accessible to a person. It is for these reasons, that when transporting a weapon in a vehicle, even greater care must be exercised to ensure that the weapon is not concealed and within the ready access to an occupant of the vehicle. North Carolina law does not specifically address how to transport a weapon in an automobile. Therefore, the central question becomes: when is the weapon concealed and readily accessible to an occupant of an automobile? Obviously, a weapon would be concealed and readily accessible, and therefore in violation of North Carolina law, if it were placed in such areas of a vehicle as under the seat of the automobile; in a bag in the back seat; or in some other manner is covered or hidden within the easy reach of an occupant of the vehicle. It is our recommendation that firearms should not be carried in a glove compartment regardless of whether the compartment is locked or not.

    (remainder of the NC AG's position)
    While a weapon carried openly in an automobile would not be concealed, there are other problems specific to this method of carrying a weapon. The principal drawback, of course, is in the event of an individual being stopped by a law enforcement official, the officer may not readily know that individual’s purpose and intent for carrying a weapon. As such, it is imperative that an individual immediately notify an officer of the presence of any weapon in the automobile, for the officer’s and the vehicle’s occupants’ safety. Another obvious drawback is that a valuable weapon may be in plain view for potential thieves to see. The prohibition to carrying concealed weapons applies not only to handguns and other weapons commonly thought of as being easily hidden, but also to “long guns” as well. Therefore, shotguns and rifles concealed behind the seat of pickup trucks, and elsewhere in other vehicles, could similarly violate North Carolina law.
    unquote

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  17. #17
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    I yield on the point(s) in question.

    Understand that sometimes I will stir the pot a bit to get others to dig deeper, offer more detail and thereby clarify the issue.

    That wasn't the case though with the PDF allegedly from your AG - I should have checked further - sorry it contained some "modification."
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 12-04-2013 at 01:51 PM. Reason: speeling
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  18. #18
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Grape, hugs and early happy holidays spent w/loved ones and friends...

    IPSE
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    That is not always the case - it is my understanding that a permit is not required in NC to OC in a restaurant serving alcohol - applies equally in other circumstances.
    http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=150

    http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=103

    That is what I posted....Open Carry has to stand on its own merit....it is not connected with a permit to Conceal Carry. The two methods of carry are not joined by any permit. A permit only gives the privilege to Conceal a weapon.

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