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Thread: question about gfz and loaded mag in gun case

  1. #1
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    question about gfz and loaded mag in gun case

    First question

    Can someone still be charged with the 1000 foot rule open carrying even if they don't know a school is there? Seems like your guilty until proven innocent now.

    Can you legally keep a loaded mag in the gun case with the gun while traveling in state?



    Just wanna double check since it looks like I might as well get a permit because of the school rule :/

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    Quote Originally Posted by 41ae View Post
    First question Can someone still be charged with the 1000 foot rule open carrying even if they don't know a school is there? Seems like your guilty until proven innocent now. Can you legally keep a loaded mag in the gun case with the gun while traveling in state? Just wanna double check since it looks like I might as well get a permit because of the school rule :/
    Welcome to OCDO Wisconsin.

    Wisconsin Statutes 948.605(2)(a) Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone is guilty of a Class I felony.

    In Wisconsin the loaded or unloaded condition of a weapon is moot to the meaning. There are peculiar transport laws that relate to particularly hunting in Chapter 167.

    In Wisconsin the document is a license and a prerequisite is training detailed at

    http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/cib/...oncealed-carry

    Be wary of 'trainers' that charge for their services, particularly cops, as they are not bound to the truth, they are excused for errors made in good faith. My local cop teaches only the prohibitions but not the allowed exceptions. Locally trained neighbors do not know how to carry on a licensed premisis, for instance.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 11-14-2013 at 06:54 AM.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  3. #3
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Welcome aboard.
    Quote Originally Posted by 41ae
    Can someone still be charged with the 1000 foot rule open carrying even if they don't know a school is there?
    Can you be charged? Yes.
    Would it stick? It shouldn't.
    This is one law where ignorance is an excuse. The DA has to prove that you
    a) possessed a firearm
    b) knowingly possessed the firearm
    c) knew or reasonably should have known that you were within the magical 1000' bubble.
    and
    d) you are not covered by one of the exceptions

    Since school zones are not marked, that's hard.
    Even then, it's only a ticket / fine (unless you're on school property, then it's a felony).
    (Never believe what someone tells you; read the law yourself. Here's a good place to look up WI laws, by number or key word.)

    Here's the WI "gun-free" school zone law, 948.605
    Section (2)(a) says in its entirety:
    Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is in or on the grounds of a school is guilty of a Class I felony. [fine up to $10,000, prison up to 3.5 years]
    Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is within 1,000 feet of the grounds of a school is subject to a Class B forfeiture. [fine not to exceed $1000]

    Then paragraph (b) says:
    Paragraph (a) does not apply to the possession of a firearm by any of the following:
    3. That is not loaded and is:
    a. Encased; or
    b. In a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle

    (Also doesn't apply if you're on private property.)

    Can you legally keep a loaded mag in the gun case with the gun while traveling in state?
    Yes.
    Our transport statute is 167.31
    (1)(b) defines encased
    (1)(g) defines unloaded (says nothing about the loaded magazine being in a separate container)


    Here's a thread in the WI forum you might find useful:
    New to OC in WI? Here's what you should know
    Last edited by MKEgal; 11-16-2013 at 12:09 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    Welcome aboard.

    Can you be charged? Yes.
    Would it stick? It shouldn't.
    This is one law where ignorance is an excuse.
    <snip>
    I would not be surprised if ignorance is not going to win the day. Courts have routinely stated that gun owners, being gun owners, should know the laws regarding guns and the prohibitions concerning them. I could easily see a liberal judge saying that you knew that the law prohibits a gun w/i X feet of a school and that the location of the school is a well known public fact...hence you had plenty of notice that the school was there.

    Playing devils advocate here...for the c-h-i-l-d-r-e-n .. the children aaaahhhhhh.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 11-14-2013 at 12:19 PM.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    If I don't live in a neighborhood, or regularly drive through the area, and there aren't signs delineating the edge of the magical bubble, how can they prove I knew or reasonably should have known there's a school hidden out of sight?

    One morning I was having coffee with my friend who happens to be employed as a LEO and he very nicely told me I shouldn't be carrying at this coffee shop because there was a school in the temple across the street.

    While I thought it was kind of him to warn me he thought I was committing a felony, instead of arresting me on the spot (and I told him so), I also explained that

    a) the "GF"SZ law allows for possession on private property, and please note that I parked & walked in the parking lot for the coffee shop
    b) I'd have to know there was a school there
    c) I'm pretty sure there isn't one there, because I know there's one 2 blocks that way & 1 block over which is affiliated with the temple

    And d) to top it all off, if you go one block north & one block west from the Jewish day school, there's another school.

    Neither of them are visible from the coffee shop & I drove in from the other direction. How should I know they were there?
    But since I do, I parked in the private lot.
    This was well before we got concealed carry. Now I can park on the street.

    I also suggested he read the law himself, not rely on my telling him.

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    Thanks everyone, only been open carrying while hunting so far. I plan to apply for a permit after xmas does anyone know roughly the current turn around time?

  7. #7
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Last I've seen (on the WI Carry FB page) is about a week.
    Some people got theirs in 4 days, some take 10 days total.

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