I hope this is the right place to ask this question:
To what extent are you obligated to take a beating from anyone in Washington state?
Let's say you are at the store buying something. Someone doesn't like you, or whatever you are doing and mouths off you to. An "FU" "FU Too" conversation breaks out, and then someone punches you in the face. Assuming you are just standing there, Are you obligated to take another punch, or can you then defend yourself (to include deadly force?) At what point are you justified in pulling your gun?
DO NOT misunderstand me. I don't advocate shooting anyone, and I feel unholstering a firearm should be a very last resort.
However, there is no duty to retreat in WA, and I cant help but be curious about this type of situation.
This is absolutely the place to ask this question, and it's a very important question.
A lot of people's idea of a self-defense scenario is where you are just out with the wife and kids and you are accosted by a gang of crackheads with ice picks and screwdrivers, but anyone who's ever used a gun in self-defense (displayed or fired) knows that is never how it plays out.
I don't settle with the argument that "you should never be in a situation that anyone anyone will have a problem with you and you can't claim self defense if they do." The world doesn't work like that anymore. I don't follow the whole "think about that life choices you make or what you chose the be born like" when it comes to self-defense. Jackholes are everywhere.
First of all, you are never obligated to take a beating (except by LE -141 Wn.2d 731, STATE v. BRADLEY -you cannot defend yourself even against torture by LE unless actual danger of death) without being able to defend yourself. If someone punches you, be it in line at the store or in an alley, you can use force to prevent violence against yourself or others. What degree of force depends on circumstances, obviously.
Disparity of force has been mentioned many times in the previous comments. You can't shoot someone for punching you at Safeway unless you really believe (and can show in court why your belief was rational) that you were in danger of serious bodily injury (and not just a damaged ego and sore jaw). Bar fights are pretty much the same, in my opinion. If you get into it at a bar and things get out of hand, since you can't legally carry there anyway, if you pull a gun you not only violate statutes but bar fight rules, which is just as bad. If you're on the floor getting beat with pool cues that's something else, since there would be a real danger of serious bodily harm.
For what it's worth, if you're in "FU vs FU too" situations at the store, go by street rules. If you pull a gun in a fist fight you're a coward, absent other circumstances. If you weigh 110 and some 350lb doush who doesn't like you starts slapping you around but you don't have reason to believe you'll suffer serious bodily injury just get the cock out of the way. By WA law, if you have reason to believe you are in actual danger or felony assault, such as broken bones or what have you, you can use force. If said doush does so in an alley, you probably do have reason to believe you may be in for serious bodily harm unless you get more violent. But if someone bigger than you punches you at the store and you shoot him, you better have an expensive lawyer.
I don't say any of this lightly or as just an internet wannabe lawyer thing. I've drawn a gun several times for what I perceived (and still believe in hindsight) to be actual imminent danger to myself or others from unlawful use of weapons. I've heard a lot of people say "don't draw a gun unless you are going to use it" and whatnot. I don't agree with that, or even the idea that warning shots are a bad idea. (warning shots at Walmart are a bad idea.) If you get hit by some guy who's probably had too much to drink at 1:45am on the street, you have to consider both the degree of harm he's intent on causing you (and what you can prove in court) and what you can live with doing. I'd much rather shoot in the air to get a jackhole's full attention and possible change of attitude than shoot someone who was just out getting his doush on on a Saturday night. I know the mind runs fast and crazy when confronted by possibilities of force against you, but when it's happened to me what passed through my mind for whatever reasons was that I didn't want to hurt or kill someone by mistake or misperception and took cover before I aimed my weapon. Fortunately I never had to shoot, but I definitely understand where "FU" can go horribly wrong.
[I can't believe what the auto-censor is blocking out these days...]
