Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: 9mm round detonated after being dropped on the floor at a qualification range.

  1. #1
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    4,216

    9mm round detonated after being dropped on the floor at a qualification range.

    24OCT2013: A 9mm round detonated after being dropped on the floor at a qualification range.

    Background:

    A 10th Mountain Unit was conducting a M9 qualification when the incident occurred. The soldiers were issued their allotted number of rounds in the foam tray, then carried them onto the firing line at the all weather qualification range (indoor range). One of the Soldiers dropped his tray while inside the air lock room and one of the rounds detonated, sending brass shrapnel and the projectile into the walls of the room. No Soldiers were injured.

    Analysis:

    The 9mm round had a crescent shaped scar across the primer (as seen in the picture). The scar appears to be similar to those made on the casing from the crimping process done at the factory. It is suspected that the round was not correctly positioned in the shell holder when the process was completed. Creating condition where a light strike on the primer was enough to detonate the round. After examining the remaining ammunition the rounds showed similiar markings on the primer were separated out and turned back in for disposal.



    This was posted up at drill this past month, took a photo which I'll try to post. I figured I'd send the heads up to those of you that shoot and buy 9mm ammo. Not sure what company made this ammo as it doesn't say, but figured I'd put it out there.

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    6,520
    There is a firearms instruction school called Front Sight not far from here. They probably have a thousand students a day out there.

    Part of their training is clearing malfunctions so quite a few loaded rounds get cleared from guns.

    They've had ONE go off when it hit the ground, last I heard. Pretty good odds.

    But it seems like this one was badly crimped primers? Can you link the story so we can see the picture?

    I've always wondered; just how effective is a crimped primer at doing whatever it is supposed to be doing? Do battlefield conditions really cause a chance of a primer to fall out?
    Last edited by MAC702; 11-15-2013 at 05:11 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  3. #3
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    4,216
    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    There is a firearms instruction school called Front Sight not far from here. They probably have a thousand students a day out there.

    Part of their training is clearing malfunctions so quite a few loaded rounds get cleared from guns.

    They've had ONE go off when it hit the ground, last I heard. Pretty good odds.

    But it seems like this one was badly seated primers? Can you link the story so we can see the picture?
    Yea I'm attempting to upload the photo fo the poster. You can see clear as day there is a dent (crescent) in the primer. It look almost like a soft hit.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    4,216
    Tried, but this forum is saying the file is too large. It was taken with my cell phone.

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    6,520
    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Tried, but this forum is saying the file is too large. It was taken with my cell phone.
    I didn't realize you were the source! I'm no expert on what this forum can do or the best way to get around it, but I do know that www.irfanview.com is a great photo manipulation software that is free and fairly easy to use for sizing files, even for a rock like me, if that's what you need.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  6. #6
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    4,216
    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    I didn't realize you were the source! I'm no expert on what this forum can do or the best way to get around it, but I do know that www.irfanview.com is a great photo manipulation software that is free and fairly easy to use for sizing files, even for a rock like me, if that's what you need.
    Thank you, I'll check it out.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,153
    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    ... sending brass shrapnel and the projectile into the walls of the room.
    I doubt it, "the projectile into the walls", as momentum is conserved. The projectile weighs about 8 grams and the exploded case was not directed for best effect.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Baked on Grease's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Sterling, Va.
    Posts
    652
    You can just post the photo through imgur.com and paste the link here...

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Baked on Grease; 11-15-2013 at 06:09 PM.
    "A Right Un-exercised is a Right Lost"

    "According to the law, [openly carrying] in a vehicle is against the law if the weapon is concealed" -Flamethrower (think about it....)

    Carrying an XDm 9mm with Hornady Critical Defense hollowpoint. Soon to be carrying a Ruger along with it....

  9. #9
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    4,216
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    I doubt it, "the projectile into the walls", as momentum is conserved. The projectile weighs about 8 grams and the exploded case was not directed for best effect.
    Your right, I guess the 10th MTN made it up. What do they know about guns and projectiles.

    http://imgur.com/ekmeCoX

  10. #10
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    4,216
    Quote Originally Posted by Baked on Grease View Post
    You can just post the photo through imgur.com and paste the link here...

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk
    Thank you, I was successful.

  11. #11
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766
    (chuckle)

    Well, I wouldn't expect the Army to know the difference between ignition and detonation. I'll bet some Army EOD and combat engineers did a few face-palms over that one.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  12. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    defective primer - assembly issue, poor QC.

  13. #13
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063
    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Your right, I guess the 10th MTN made it up. What do they know about guns and projectiles.

    http://imgur.com/ekmeCoX
    I still don't believe for a second that the bullet embedded itself in the wall. Unless the energy release is directed carefully against the bullet along a single axis and the casing is held in place and intact, the bullet pretty much is going nowhere. The bullet is absolutely huge compared to the casing. Additionally, the expanding gasses will dissipate rapidly, not being trapped in a barrel and a chamber. It is those expanding gasses in the chamber and the barrel of the gun that give the bullet its direction and energy. Absent a chamber and a barrel, the bullet is going essentially nowhere.

    Where is the picture of the bullet embedded in the wall?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

    <o>

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,153
    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Your right, I guess the 10th MTN made it up. What do they know about guns and projectiles.
    As much as Primus does of credulousness.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  15. #15
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063
    Like most posters, I find Primus to have credibility at times and not at others. However, he generally posts rationally in the midst of others not addressing his substance. Therefore, I assign him more credibility than I do many of his critics.

    In the case of this thread, he is taking the incredible word of others. Yes, they should know about how ammo behaves. However, those of us who understand the physics of cartridges being set off know that the claims in the article do not make sense.

    Let's deal with the substance of these claims, and point out rationally how they don't make sense, rather than mocking the person who is passing them along. You have a far better shot at convincing him an others that these claims don't make sense if you deal with the claims rather than with the poster.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

    <o>

  16. #16
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    4,216
    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I still don't believe for a second that the bullet embedded itself in the wall. Unless the energy release is directed carefully against the bullet along a single axis and the casing is held in place and intact, the bullet pretty much is going nowhere. The bullet is absolutely huge compared to the casing. Additionally, the expanding gasses will dissipate rapidly, not being trapped in a barrel and a chamber. It is those expanding gasses in the chamber and the barrel of the gun that give the bullet its direction and energy. Absent a chamber and a barrel, the bullet is going essentially nowhere.

    Where is the picture of the bullet embedded in the wall?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

    <o>
    I actually agree with the physics that the bullet shouldn't be able to be projected into the wall. Again, shouldn't. Do I believe that it's completely inhumanly impossible? No. I'd like to see the photo also, but obviously just passing what I know as a heads up to anyone who uses 9mm. Could the round have landed right next to a wall and happened to get lodged in it? I have no idea.

    My response about 10th Mountain knowing about firearms was because the other posted threw out a comment as if the Army had no idea what they were talking about.

    Finally, I've posted the Mythbusters video that shows that bullets can be projected from a heat source. It shows that yes the casing makes the most damage, but the bullets themselves can be shot around.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAK2dDQ-S4Q

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    America
    Posts
    2,226
    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I still don't believe for a second that the bullet embedded itself in the wall. Unless the energy release is directed carefully against the bullet along a single axis and the casing is held in place and intact, the bullet pretty much is going nowhere. The bullet is absolutely huge compared to the casing. Additionally, the expanding gasses will dissipate rapidly, not being trapped in a barrel and a chamber. It is those expanding gasses in the chamber and the barrel of the gun that give the bullet its direction and energy. Absent a chamber and a barrel, the bullet is going essentially nowhere.

    Where is the picture of the bullet embedded in the wall?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

    <o>
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SlOXowwC4c

    this is what happens when unsupported cartridges go bang.
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    4,216
    Quote Originally Posted by Daylen View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SlOXowwC4c

    this is what happens when unsupported cartridges go bang.
    Good video. Actually pretty cool to see. Crazy that 500 went right through the drywall.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Greater Eastside Washington
    Posts
    4,690
    The bullet shown was not imbedded into any walls. It was a clean non-impact bullet.

    It looks like the brass it worse for wear though. It would appear that there was a factory crimp on the bullet and brass to keep the bullet from becoming unseated while held in the magazine of a semi-auto pistol.

    I am not faulting any one who posts here for repeating what was on the notice though.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Bothell
    Posts
    586
    Nothing to add to the conversation except the inevitable:

    "If you like your rounds, you can keep your rounds. Nobody is going to take away your rounds from you."
    Month later:
    "Ok, we need your rounds. They don't meet specifications. You can purchase approved rounds at your local "exchanges" (i.e., LEO agency) for double the price and half the quantity. Sorry you're stupid to believe me."

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •