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Thread: Help Needed ******* Please Read ******** Info Needed

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    Help Needed ******* Please Read ******** Info Needed

    This was posted by a co-coordinator over at Ohioans For Concealed Carry.

    Anyone who has been arrested for inciting panic/disorderly conduct while OC'ing, or who knows of a good example of someone who has, PLEASE send me the details ASAP!!! You can PM if you'd rather keep the particulars off of the open forum. Links to actual police reports or case numbers would be appreciated.

    This is needed to help argue a point amongst some legislators who are wondering about real life examples of police harassing OC'ers with arrests for these charges.

    Time is of the essence, like Monday at the latest.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Harassing or claiming ignorance of the law??????? Or the Cops just didn't know?????

    The courts will 99% of the time protect the cops.

    Back in 2008 an inducing panic charge for open carrying took eight months to get dismissed.

    I can't help OFCC. Because, after all, they know everything.
    Last edited by color of law; 11-15-2013 at 09:20 PM.

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    Please post a link to this request.
    I have documented examples of me being threatened with IP, "a felony", and "if you're walking down the street with a gun, we are going to stop you" (all separate incidents) but those were only threats so I'm not sure what they are looking for.

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    Here's the link Sigger.

    http://www.ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=76966

    C.O.L. I believe this would be for ammo to be used in testimony at the Statehouse. Not a matter of knowing everything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pirateguy191 View Post
    Here's the link Sigger.

    http://www.ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=76966

    C.O.L. I believe this would be for ammo to be used in testimony at the Statehouse. Not a matter of knowing everything.
    Link asks for login ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Link asks for login ...
    Yup +1

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pirateguy191 View Post
    Here's the link Sigger.

    http://www.ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=76966

    C.O.L. I believe this would be for ammo to be used in testimony at the Statehouse. Not a matter of knowing everything.
    I feel your pain, BUT OFCC have a number of attorneys and one is an assistant prosecutor on the forum. They can't come up with people that have been harassed.

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    Regular Member MyWifeSaidYes's Avatar
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    Updated link.

    http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=76992

    To post, you'll need to register and login. Only an email needed.


    OFCC is definitely a different animal than OCDO, but they are focused on pro-gun issues and have feet on the ground in the Statehouse.

    I can overlook a LOT of stuff for that particular group effort.


    Yes, you have to login in order to even see the Open Carry forum on their site. BFA has the same requirement.

    Is that strange? No stranger than the restriction on long gun OC that OCDO has in place.

    Different animals, similar goals.
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    What does a caring, sensitive person feel when they are forced to use a handgun to stop a threat?

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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pirateguy191 View Post
    Here's the link Sigger.

    http://www.ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=76966

    C.O.L. I believe this would be for ammo to be used in testimony at the Statehouse. Not a matter of knowing everything.
    I feel your pain, BUT OFCC have a number of attorneys and one is an assistant prosecutor on the forum. They can't come up with people that have been harassed.
    Well, one of the best stories of I've heard was published in detail in the OFCC forums, but it might be discredited if anyone learned that a shill called in the MWAG complaint.
    Last edited by Werz; 11-17-2013 at 10:33 PM.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pirateguy191 View Post
    This was posted by a co-coordinator over at Ohioans For Concealed Carry.
    Are you looking for Ohio only or for other states as well?

    In the VA forum search for Danbus. The tale of Norfolk PD harassing a black man for open carrying. Norfolk got sued for their Police Department behavior and settled.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    I'll post on here on behalf of the myself and all Coordinators at OFCC. You can say what you want about anything else but in this instance we are looking to help ALL open carriers. Hey, you say we aren't for OC, well, take that comment and.........

    Our Legislatures have called us requesting our assistance on HB 203. They are wanting to know the goal behind....

    (E) The exercise of a constitutional or statutory right is not, in itself, a violation of this section and does not constitute reasonable, articulable suspicion of criminal activity.

    ...being added to both 2917.11 and 2917.31. With that added it may help OCers stop being harassed. However, it's going to be a battle to keep that in there and/or get the bill passed with that in there. Unfortunately, our contacts are only requesting arrested and charged cases and not harassed. A few newspapers are also looking at doing articles on that section of the change.

    Remember, if you want something changed you need cases or reason to back up the change. A change just to change generally doesn't fly to well with the House and Senate.

    If you don't want to help and just want to complain about OFCC and some of there stances then please keep them to yourself at this time. We are trying to help you and complaining about why we do what we do doesn't help the matter at hand. If you want to just post here, post it here and MyWifeSaidYes or myself will pass it on to our contacts.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    It is a violation of Forum Rules to criticize or attack another gun rights group except for any stance they might have against OC specifically.

    That definitely does not seem to be the case with OFCC - in fact I have just registered there.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JediSkipdogg View Post
    I'll post on here on behalf of the myself and all Coordinators at OFCC. You can say what you want about anything else but in this instance we are looking to help ALL open carriers. Hey, you say we aren't for OC, well, take that comment and.........

    Our Legislatures have called us requesting our assistance on HB 203. They are wanting to know the goal behind....

    (E) The exercise of a constitutional or statutory right is not, in itself, a violation of this section and does not constitute reasonable, articulable suspicion of criminal activity.

    ...being added to both 2917.11 and 2917.31. With that added it may help OCers stop being harassed. However, it's going to be a battle to keep that in there and/or get the bill passed with that in there. Unfortunately, our contacts are only requesting arrested and charged cases and not harassed. A few newspapers are also looking at doing articles on that section of the change.

    Remember, if you want something changed you need cases or reason to back up the change. A change just to change generally doesn't fly to well with the House and Senate.

    If you don't want to help and just want to complain about OFCC and some of there stances then please keep them to yourself at this time. We are trying to help you and complaining about why we do what we do doesn't help the matter at hand. If you want to just post here, post it here and MyWifeSaidYes or myself will pass it on to our contacts.
    Very well said and thanks for your help

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    It is a violation of Forum Rules to criticize or attack another gun rights group except for any stance they might have against OC specifically.

    That definitely does not seem to be the case with OFCC - in fact I have just registered there.
    What about mentioning that you have to join the forum just to see the OC section?


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    Originally Posted by Grapeshot

    It is a violation of Forum Rules to criticize or attack another gun rights group except for any stance they might have against OC specifically.

    That definitely does not seem to be the case with OFCC - in fact I have just registered there.
    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    What about mentioning that you have to join the forum just to see the OC section?


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    MyWifeSaidYes already posted that log in was required to view the forum.

    One step at a time - not familar with the site yet and don't really expect to post much at that. Primary purpose wil lbe to see how others view OC and to observe happenings.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    To be fair, there HAVE been some anti-OC feelings on OFCC.

    Some are still there.

    To my knowledge, any people with those feelings are not standing in the way of any OC activity on that forum.

    I am an active and avid OC'er. They knew that when they asked me to be their ORC 9.68 Compliance Coordinator.

    (Ohio Revised Code 9.68 is our preemption statute, invalidating local firearm restrictions)

    When I find, or a forum member points out, a city with laws that violate 9.68, I make contact with their legal counsel and ask them to repeal those laws.

    When they don't, we have a new destination for our next open carry picnic!

    Some people on OCDO have had bad experiences with OFCC and choose not to go there.

    Some people have dismissed them out of hand, having never visited, and have chosen not to go there.

    I understand these choices, but I still invite those people to visit.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyWifeSaidYes View Post
    To be fair, there HAVE been some anti-OC feelings on OFCC.

    Some are still there.

    To my knowledge, any people with those feelings are not standing in the way of any OC activity on that forum.

    I am an active and avid OC'er. They knew that when they asked me to be their ORC 9.68 Compliance Coordinator.

    (Ohio Revised Code 9.68 is our preemption statute, invalidating local firearm restrictions)

    When I find, or a forum member points out, a city with laws that violate 9.68, I make contact with their legal counsel and ask them to repeal those laws.

    When they don't, we have a new destination for our next open carry picnic!

    Some people on OCDO have had bad experiences with OFCC and choose not to go there.

    Some people have dismissed them out of hand, having never visited, and have chosen not to go there.

    I understand these choices, but I still invite those people to visit.
    I have never had a bad experience when dealing with other pro gunnies. Now I will say that some experiences have been better than others in the beginning, but I specialize in finding common ground. We stand together - united by our belief in the RKBA. We may show it differently, but hopefully with courtesy towards each other.

    I'll be back in a couple of days - as soon as I figure out how to introduce myself on that locked thread
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    What about mentioning that you have to join the forum just to see the OC section?
    If you hadn't joined this forum, you wouldn't be able to post the numerous comments that you do.

    Just sayin' ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by MyWifeSaidYes View Post
    To be fair, there HAVE been some anti-OC feelings on OFCC.

    Some are still there.

    To my knowledge, any people with those feelings are not standing in the way of any OC activity on that forum.

    I am an active and avid OC'er. They knew that when they asked me to be their ORC 9.68 Compliance Coordinator.

    (Ohio Revised Code 9.68 is our preemption statute, invalidating local firearm restrictions)

    When I find, or a forum member points out, a city with laws that violate 9.68, I make contact with their legal counsel and ask them to repeal those laws.

    When they don't, we have a new destination for our next open carry picnic!

    Some people on OCDO have had bad experiences with OFCC and choose not to go there.

    Some people have dismissed them out of hand, having never visited, and have chosen not to go there.

    I understand these choices, but I still invite those people to visit.
    Making the OC forum invisible to non-members is "standing in the way of OC." As far as your invitation goes, after OC becomes visible at that site, I will explore it as a non-member. After that, maybe I'd join. However, the clearly demonstrated attitude toward OC (making it invisible) keeps me from even looking.

    I don't really feel the need to join anyway. I will continue to operate independently; that is true grassroots.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Werz View Post
    If you hadn't joined this forum, you wouldn't be able to post the numerous comments that you do.

    Just sayin' ...
    And before I joined this forum, I read it extensively, something I cannot do with the OC area at OFCC.

    Just sayin' (whatever the hell that means) ...


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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Making the OC forum invisible to non-members is "standing in the way of OC." As far as your invitation goes, after OC becomes visible at that site, I will explore it as a non-member. After that, maybe I'd join. However, the clearly demonstrated attitude toward OC (making it invisible) keeps me from even looking.

    I don't really feel the need to join anyway. I will continue to operate independently; that is true grassroots.


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    Could not disagree more - requiring registration first in no way becomes a negative regarding OC. That is tantamount to saying that requiring registration is anti RKBA - absurd. Registration and their operating policies allow for much tighter control of the direction their organization takes w/o outside interference - that can be a decidedly good thing.

    OCDO being a publicly read forum brings with it the problems associated with that free/unbridled access. We have been quoted out of context, attract spammers like fleas on a dog, and too often make our intentions known too soon, provide a blueprint for the antis. Such is the price of free access.

    That some of their members might be critical of OC is not of major concern - haven't visited enough to determine that yet though. What is most important from the standpoint of OCDO's rules is what is the organization's official stand on OC. I have seen where OFCC has pushed for laws and such that have benefited both OC and CC. Is have seen nothing to indicate a stance by the organization to oppose OC.

    Being a lone wolf activist is not in itself a bad thing, still it only multiplies the effort by one (1). It is not simply a trite expression when we say, "There is power in numbers." True grassroots (note that is plural noun) is a coming together of the common or ordinary people for a cause.

    Registration is free on OFCC - costs a little time. Don't like it, don't go back.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Help Needed ******* Please Read ******** Info Needed

    Couldn't disagree more. Hiding OC, while NOT hiding CC, shows a preference against OC, as if there is something to be hidden about it.

    And registration costs more than time. It costs information. If they are going to hide information from me, I won't share any of mine with them.

    OFCC shows a clear bias against OC.


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    Last edited by eye95; 11-19-2013 at 09:55 AM.

  23. #23
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Couldn't disagree more. Hiding OC, while NOT hiding CC, shows a preference against OC, as if there is something to be hidden about it.

    And registration costs more than time. It costs information. If they are going to hide information from me, I won't share any of mine with them.

    OFCC shows a clear bias against OC.
    Official ruling, called decision - no determined organizational bias against OC by OFCC known.

    Eye you have made your personal opinion clear - guess where continued rants will go. There will be no repetitious "voting" or hammering of the point by one user out of approx. 31,000 registered users.

    Yep, you live in a super secret bunker - however, anyone that wants to locate who and what you are can do so with relative ease: your real name, where you work, likely even where you live and even a picture of you. Much of that has been published on this open forum. So don't share it with them - in redneck phraseology, "It don't make me no never mind."
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  24. #24
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Could not disagree more - requiring registration first in no way becomes a negative regarding OC.<snip>
    With OFCC viewable to all without registration, except the OC sub-forum it seems, they have the same "problems associated with that free/unbridled access" that you decry. Anyway, any misquoters and out-of-contexters could register, read, and then misquote and out-of-context to their heart's desire. It is free to register.

    OFCC giving access to OFCC's sub-forums, except the OC sub-forum it seems, indicates to me that they are little concerned with the potential of misquoters and out-of-contexters misquoting and out-of-contexting the viewable sub-forums.

    We are about freedom. We are an advocate for all firearms related rights.

    Ohioans for Concealed Carry, founded in 1999, is a grassroots political activist organization. When founded, the primary goal of OFCC was getting concealed carry passed into law in Ohio. With that accomplished, our mission became to refine the concealed carry law and to expand and preserve the rights of all gun owners in Ohio.

    http://ohioccw.org/200907194553/what-were-about.html
    Expand and preserve rights must be taken as explicit support of OC in OH it seems.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    With OFCC viewable to all without registration, except the OC sub-forum it seems, they have the same "problems associated with that free/unbridled access" that you decry. Anyway, any misquoters and out-of-contexters could register, read, and then misquote and out-of-context to their heart's desire. It is free to register.

    OFCC giving access to OFCC's sub-forums, except the OC sub-forum it seems, indicates to me that they are little concerned with the potential of misquoters and out-of-contexters misquoting and out-of-contexting the viewable sub-forums.

    Expand and preserve rights must be taken as explicit support of OC in OH it seems.
    But, but, but, I am the only one out of 31,000 who feels that way. At least a certain "moderator" thinks I am and that 31,000 others have evaluated the situation. :eyeroll:


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