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Thread: oc in walmart first ever bad experience cops called

  1. #1
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    Angry oc in walmart first ever bad experience cops called

    last night i was shopping at the local walmart here in napoleon ohio with my wife and 7yo son while open carrying as i always do and have done for the past 3 years. a guy wearing a ratty gray sweatshirt who honestly looked like a bum with no uniform or id tag on came up to me and said i needed to take my gun outside. i informed him that i was breaking no law and that i was within walmarts store policy. i then said youre obviously not a manager what are you a stock boy. he didnt reply so me and my wife continued shopping. i saw the guy was following us all over the store while he was on his phone. as we got towards the front of the store in come walking 4 officers hands on their guns and one carrying an ar15 surround me. i informed them i was in no way breaking the law. they proceeded to hold my hands tightly together behind my back . i informed them i had a chp and they fished my wallet out of my pocket and ran my id the whole time holding my hands tightly behind my back. they proceeded to tell me they had a call of a tresspasser with a gun. it turns out the guy who looked like a bum was a loss prevention guy with only a few weeks on the job. he lied and told the officers that he had asked me repeatedly to leave the store and that he showed me his id and that i refused to leave the store. he did none of those things. i was irate and said a few swear words here and there. i was then threaten with arrest for obstruction and resisting arrest if ididnt watch my mouth. they ran my stuff and it checked out. they forced me to leave the store. i emailed walmarts corporate office to complain and also contacted a manager. i also stopped at the local police dept and got the names of the four officers and said id like to file a complaint. they told me they dont have any kind of forms to file a complaint against an officer and that i need to come back monday and talk to the chief. what are my legal recourses and does anyone have the number of a good pro gun lawyer. any help is great appreciated

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    what do you think you can sue someone for? Sue them for civil rights violation? I would like that.

    don't shop at that walmart or any walmart anymore if you choose


    get on the phone and call your state rep and ask for a new law that would restrict walmart from infringing on your RKBA

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    i cleared things up with walmart mgt to some degree he basically said i was right the other guy was wrong and that myself and my firearm are welcome in walmart. i was just curious if i had and legal recourse against the police or walmart or the guy who works loss prevention considering he lied to the police.
    Last edited by ohiopatriot; 11-17-2013 at 02:19 AM.

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    I get the impression this "loss prevention" guy is still employed, even after tipping his hand to you (by revealing he was "undercover" as a loss prevention guy) and siccing four police officers on you (it can't be good for business to have cop cars swarming around the place). He ought to be living out of a cardboard box after that stunt.

    Oh well.

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    Swearing and using bad language never sets you in a good light no matter how wronged you have been and could easily result in an Disorderly Conduct arrest. By swearing you help set the tone against you

    This is a prime case where a recorder could have saved you a big hassle.
    being police and acting clam goes a long ways.

    You have very little clue what the officers were told there actions could very well have been justifiable working with the information they had. A request for the 911 call tapes might be a good place to start.

    Go and talk with the chief you might be surprise could go one way or the other.

    Seems like management responded properly and if they did the employee well not make the same mistake twice.
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 11-17-2013 at 08:38 AM.
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    To bad, I have never had a bad experience at wall mart. Some forum members recommend having an audio recorder running at all times in public for just such instances.

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    i know i should watch my language but i was pissed when i see 4 cops and ones carrying an ar15 it made me even more mad they werent exactly civil and the fact that they embarassed me and my family in front of an entire store on a busy sat night made me even more mad. and im sorry but disorderly conduct is just a bs charge when they cant find anything to lawfully charge you with.
    Last edited by ohiopatriot; 11-17-2013 at 09:08 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ohiopatriot View Post
    i know i should watch my language but i was pissed when i see 4 cops and ones carrying an ar15 it made me even more mad they werent exactly civil and the fact that they embarassed me and my family in front of an entire store on a busy sat night made me even more mad. and im sorry but disorderly conduct is just a bs charge when they cant find anything to lawfully charge you with.
    Wait... you are currently facing disorderly conduct charges?

  9. #9
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    Here is the thing about the police in this situation, they had a report of a person refusing to leave. They have no idea whether it is true or not, until they investigate. The person to bring charges against is Walmart and the employee, even though Walmart has apologize they are still responsible for the actions of their employees especially loss prevention. Get a attorney, have the attorney file false reporting charges against this employee on your behalf. Then bring suit against Walmart for your detention, and the stress it gave you.

    The police from what I see of your post acted appropriately. Next time if there is when you are being harassed walk outside and call management from your phone. Also record, record, record. If I was you I would not be satisfied until this employee is fired.

    On more than one occasion I have told Walmart door employees to "bugger off" when they demand to see my receipt. I have dared them to call the police, and most were smart enough not to do it. Walmart has since stopped that stupid policy, at least in our Walmart.

    Added

    DC is not a BS charge when you are using fighting words(foul language)
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 11-17-2013 at 09:24 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohiopatriot View Post
    i know i should watch my language but i was pissed when i see 4 cops and ones carrying an ar15 it made me even more mad they werent exactly civil and the fact that they embarassed me and my family in front of an entire store on a busy sat night made me even more mad. and im sorry but disorderly conduct is just a bs charge when they cant find anything to lawfully charge you with.
    I sure your wife and son were impress with your anger as well as the rest of the customers and employees.

    I find example of how to handle a situation was learned by all.

    There is time swearing and bad words could be justified Hitting ones thumb with a hammer might be worth an OH Sh!T.

    Swearing and bad language used in a public setting where there are innocent parties around in not proper and might very well spark some thing one does not like.

    No DC is a charge use when some one is disorderly different states have different elements of the charge.

    In Wis. foul language and fighting words are a couple of them the place, time and who's around are also figured in.

    Using them in a bar might be appropriate using them were there are children and other innocents are around could very well be inappropriate .
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 11-17-2013 at 09:59 AM.
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    considering how much stock people put in their 2nd amendment rights here its a bit appaling to see how little you value the first amendment saying the f word in anger is no grounds for arrest or threatening arrest. not everyone stays as calm as a preacher when their civil rights are being crapped on. foul language and fighting words are two different things my friend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ohiopatriot View Post
    considering how much stock people put in their 2nd amendment rights here its a bit appaling to see how little you value the first amendment saying the f word in anger is no grounds for arrest or threatening arrest. not everyone stays as calm as a preacher when their civil rights are being crapped on. foul language and fighting words are two different things my friend.
    Throwing angry F bombs is NOT 1st amendment speech, it is throwing a temper tantrum, and in some states assault. That is why I use "bugger off" instead of F bombs, and I do not argue. Most times I just walk away, or I politely disagree. You do not have a right to be rude and put people in fear because of language or actions. It is your responsibility when you exercise your right to act in a professional and courteous manner.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    I know i'll catch heat on this!!!

    ohiopatriot, in my opinion, it would be a good idea to go back to that Walmart and shop. If you happen to run into the "loss prevention guy" again, walk up to him pleasantly and offer to shake his hand while saying something like - Hi, sorry we got off on the wrong foot last time. I am sure you take your job seriously as I take my freedoms seriously. Anyway, have a good day. - Smile and walk away. Do not be confrontational. Winning over people to our side should be one of our major goals. If he learned a lesson, all the better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ohiopatriot View Post
    considering how much stock people put in their 2nd amendment rights here its a bit appaling to see how little you value the first amendment saying the f word in anger is no grounds for arrest or threatening arrest. not everyone stays as calm as a preacher when their civil rights are being crapped on. foul language and fighting words are two different things my friend.
    I can agree with above statement

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    Exercise your First Amendment right of free association (via NAACP v. Alabama, 357 U.S. 449 (1958)) and shun ugly people.
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    In hindsight:

    1. If confronted ask to have the Manager come over and don't say anything.
    2. Don't get angry during detention.

    Good luck with any redress.

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    Three pieces of advice:

    1. Carry a recorder--not just to ensure that the cops' behavior is on record, but to prove that the LP guy lied!

    2. Make sure that the recorder catches you stating that you do not consent to any searches or seizures of your person or your stuff. Tell them you won't answer any questions without a lawyer present. Follow all requirements for a lawful detention, even if you are convinced it is not lawful. Folks can lie (much like this LP guy did), creating RAS of which you would be unaware.

    3. Use whitespace, capitalization, and punctuation to make your posts easier to read.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Swearing and using bad language never sets you in a good light no matter how wronged you have been and could easily result in an Disorderly Conduct arrest. By swearing you help set the tone against you

    This is a prime case where a recorder could have saved you a big hassle.
    being police and acting clam goes a long ways.
    Ohiopatriot, Firearms Iinstuctor brings up a good point: Being police, acting clam (as in, shut tight, not attacking, and not revealing any more than is necessary) goes a long ways.
    Firearms Iinstuctor, I will have to borrow that clam example, just so you know. Maybe even may a shirt (if detained, act clam)
    Also, carrying AT LEAST a voice recorder whenever you OC is necessary to keep yourself covered from lying cretins (like the "loss prevention" guy) who, as you now know firsthand, make politicians and the Devil look like Honest Abe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    You have very little clue what the officers were told there actions could very well have been justifiable working with the information they had. A request for the 911 call tapes might be a good place to start.
    OP: Have someone file a FOIA request for the tapes of the 911 call, the officers' reports (just to see how they described your actions once on the scene), and the radio communications immediately after ending contact with you (for the same reason).
    Also, eye95 makes a good point.
    Quote Originally Posted by eye95
    Use whitespace, capitalization, and punctuation to make your posts easier to read.
    Last edited by Rusty Young Man; 11-17-2013 at 02:34 PM.
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    Unhappy

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    i always intended to get a recorder but after 3 yrs and no incidents i guess i kinda forgot about getting one to cover myself. also sorry about capitalization and all that but my smart phone isnt so smart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ohiopatriot View Post
    i always intended to get a recorder but after 3 yrs and no incidents i guess i kinda forgot about getting one to cover myself. also sorry about capitalization and all that but my smart phone isnt so smart.
    Ah, I understand about the formatting. The advice is still good, just sometimes there is little you can do about it.

    I don't understand about the recorder. *smacks op on the back of the head, gibbs-style* Grab your gear!


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    If you haven't heard it enough, carry a recorder!!! It may save your but big time one day. You can get a nice one for around $50.00.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RCall View Post
    If you haven't heard it enough, carry a recorder!!! It may save your but big time one day. You can get a nice one for around $50.00.
    I paid much less for mine, though it can only be replayed through a computer. It has 4G memory and can run for 70 hours.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
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    All great advice ill be sure to get a recorder soon very very soon. I just got into an argument with my cousin who is a leo now going on 21 yrs all i wanted to know about was filing a complaint against officers because the local dept refused to give me any forms.

    He tried to pull the old "well if someone gets scared from seeing you open carry we can charge you with inducing a panic " and compared open carry to yelling fire in a crowded theater. i tried to inform him that he was incorrect but he didnt want to hear it and kept arguing saying " i know youre not breaking the law but if someone gets scared and runs away from me into the street and gets hurt that im liable for it"

    Does anybody have any pointers on politely educating my cousin the leo. his ignorance could cost him or his dept a lawsuit.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohiopatriot View Post
    All great advice ill be sure to get a recorder soon very very soon. I just got into an argument with my cousin who is a leo now going on 21 yrs all i wanted to know about was filing a complaint against officers because the local dept refused to give me any forms.

    He tried to pull the old "well if someone gets scared from seeing you open carry we can charge you with inducing a panic " and compared open carry to yelling fire in a crowded theater. i tried to inform him that he was incorrect but he didnt want to hear it and kept arguing saying " i know youre not breaking the law but if someone gets scared and runs away from me into the street and gets hurt that im liable for it"

    Does anybody have any pointers on politely educating my cousin the leo. his ignorance could cost him or his dept a lawsuit.
    You can't lead a anti to water, even a LEO. The most important responsibility of a LAC is to his own actions. If he or his dept get sued that is their problem, not yours. Act like a professional while carrying, at all times. Your demeanor while carrying is the most important thing you can do for education to the public.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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