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Thread: Is ammo price gouging still going on in your area?

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Is ammo price gouging still going on in your area?

    In my neck of the woods things seem to be slowly returning to normal. Wal-Mart seems to be decently stocked up on common ammo and the prices seem to be the same as pre-Sandy Hook. Once in a while I will see an attempted private sell of ammo on the internet with high prices. Just the other day a guy was trying to sell 2 50 round boxes of .22 for $65.00 a piece (same brand was in stock at Wal-Mart for $23.00 a box). Several months back people would have paid that price with no questions asked. But instead of the guy getting a swarm of "I want it, I want it" he instead got an ear full of angry comments from people that are tired of others trying to price gouge. I'm just wondering if the rest of the country is returning to normal.
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    Regular Member JustaShooter's Avatar
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    Here in NE Ohio things are mostly back to normal as far as availability goes, except for .22LR. Prices are still a bit higher than pre-stupidity pricing, and I'm afraid those higher (but not ridiculous) prices are here to stay. The big exception is .22LR - still hard to find, and still way over priced when you do find it.
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    A near by Rural King has M855 5.56 at $459.00 for a 900 round ammo can (Denmark is the country of origin). Down from $539.00 about two months ago.

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    A near by Rural King has M855 5.56 at $459.00 for a 900 round ammo can (Denmark is the country of origin). Down from $539.00 about two months ago.
    The only places I see with price gouging are the classifieds.
    The most outrageous gouging was one guy trying to sell "extremely rare" 7.62X54R mil-surp for ~$1/rd. Some guys still try to gouge with the .22 LR, and a few crazies want to trade steel-cased 7.62X39 1:1 for BRASS-cased factory 5.56 mm.
    The saddest thing I've seen is one guy who keeps trying to sell loose-packed .45 ACP "from the mid-90s" for $.45.

    So to answer the OP: not so much in this area of Arizona. But I do want to make sure I keep a nice little stock on hand for next time; I haven't gone shooting in over 3 months.

    1. Couldn't buy in bulk when it was available (I blame my tuition)
    2. Couldn't order online until 21 (restricted me to private sales)
    3. I sure as h3ll was not about to run steel-cased ammo through my 1911

    Near-perfect storm for me....
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    I've got some steel case 5.56 (Wolf) I gotta trade.

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    It won't be bothering me much longer. I'll be making my own soon. Stocking up on lead now.

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    What is price gouging?


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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    ...he instead got an ear full of angry comments from people that are tired of others trying to price gouge. I'm just wondering if the rest of the country is returning to normal.
    "According to the theory of neoclassical economics, anti-price gouging laws prevent allocative efficiency. Allocative efficiency refers to when prices function properly, markets tend to allocate resources to their most valued uses. In turn those who value the good the most (and not just the wealthiest) will be willing to pay a higher price than those who do not value the good as much. According to Friedrich Hayek in The Use of Knowledge in Society, prices can act to coordinate the separate actions of different people as they seek to satisfy their desires."
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    What is price gouging?


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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_gouging
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    "According to the theory of neoclassical economics, anti-price gouging laws prevent allocative efficiency. Allocative efficiency refers to when prices function properly, markets tend to allocate resources to their most valued uses. In turn those who value the good the most (and not just the wealthiest) will be willing to pay a higher price than those who do not value the good as much. According to Friedrich Hayek in The Use of Knowledge in Society, prices can act to coordinate the separate actions of different people as they seek to satisfy their desires."
    Neoclassical... isn't that an oxymoron?

    Prices would come down if idiot gun owners would stop paying the panic pricing markup. OMG! .45 is down to $.74!!! Buy all you can!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    I can post an article about unicorns. Doesn't mean they are real. There is no such a thing as price gouging. There are free markets and unfree markets. What some people mistakenly call "price gouging" is just the natural action of a free market.


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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    I don't think I saw much of a price increase at any point from the major retailers, just from the gun and pawn shops.
    Advocate freedom please

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyb View Post
    Neoclassical... isn't that an oxymoron? ...
    Did you look up the definition to learn that, or just pull it out of your fundament?
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    What is price gouging?


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    When someone takes the concept of a free market to the extreme by setting an unreasonably high price on a commodity that is available (usually in a drastically reduced volume) elsewhere and at a reasonable price. Kind of like if I offered to sell you a Russian 1956 Mosin-Nagant 91/30 for $1000 or trade it for two of your 1911 pistols. Yes, a free market regulates itself and all, but it would be, and always will be, asinine (gouging, not the free market).

    Similar (by reversed roles) to lowballers going into a gun store and offering to buy the latest generation Glock for $200 because "you seem to have a lot of these anyway".
    Last edited by Rusty Young Man; 11-18-2013 at 06:53 PM.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

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    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Did you look up the definition to learn that, or just pull it out of your fundament?
    wow. somebody has the case of the Mondays.

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    I don't think I saw much of a price increase at any point from the major retailers, just from the gun and pawn shops.
    I ended up buying 500 rounds of WOLF 7.62X39 for $230 + shipping from The Armory. Came out to roughly 47 cents a round on that one. Looked sometime last month: $179 +shipping for the same exact batch.

    I knew I was overpaying for it, but time was of the essence (wanted to spend some quality shooting time with my mother for Mothers' Day; yep, that's been the tradition for about two years now).
    So yes, free market pricing on that one, but gouging is something different as it intentionally tries to force the price, not in keeping with the market.
    Last edited by Rusty Young Man; 11-18-2013 at 06:59 PM.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyb View Post
    SNIP...Prices would come down if idiot gun owners would stop paying the panic pricing markup. OMG! .45 is down to $.74!!! Buy all you can!!!
    Yep. That's why I'm only buying slowly so I have something to keep practicing with the next time this happens (because it will). Snap caps only do so much for you...

    On that note, what do you guys think of buying one of those (incredibly realistic) CO2 1911 pistols to practice "shooting" with? I figure, if ammo is scarce, it should keep you from getting too Rusty?
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man View Post
    When someone takes the concept of a free market to the extreme by setting an unreasonably high price on a commodity that is available (usually in a drastically reduced volume) elsewhere and at a reasonable price. Kind of like if I offered to sell you a Russian 1956 Mosin-Nagant 91/30 for $1000 or trade it for two of your 1911 pistols. Yes, a free market regulates itself and all, but it would be, and always will be, asinine (gouging, not the free market).

    Similar (by reversed roles) to lowballers going into a gun store and offering to buy the latest generation Glock for $200 because "you seem to have a lot of these anyway".
    What is the extreme? Who gets to determine that? Does the person who determines that a price is extreme get to stop another from charging it?

    If you don't like the price, just don't buy it. If you don't like the offer, just don't sell it.

    Extreme freedom! What a concept!


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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I can post an article about unicorns. Doesn't mean they are real. There is no such a thing as price gouging. There are free markets and unfree markets. What some people mistakenly call "price gouging" is just the natural action of a free market.


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    Price gouging, free market, unfree market, demand market, supply market, rich market, poor market, black market, hippy hippy hoppy market.....does it really matter what you call it? I believe that you understand that the point of this thread was to inquire if other across the country are still seeing a higher than usual price for ammunition.
    Last edited by self preservation; 11-18-2013 at 07:36 PM.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

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    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    I've got some steel case 5.56 (Wolf) I gotta trade.
    Trade for some Tula? lol

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    What is the extreme? Who gets to determine that? Does the person who determines that a price is extreme get to stop another from charging it?

    If you don't like the price, just don't buy it. If you don't like the offer, just don't sell it.

    Extreme freedom! What a concept!


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    I don't see why we're arguing then. As to the "extreme" part, granted I may have thrown that word out too freely (), but I stand by my claim that gougers do not follow the market. I understand prices fluctuate, but gougers are known to ignore its trends (which is their Right).
    If I don't think it's a fair price/offer, I don't beg/attack them. I also didn't want anyone to wrongfully perceive me as that kind of person, that's why I added the
    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man
    SNIP...Yes, a free market regulates itself and all, but it would be, and always will be, asinine (gouging, not the free market).
    part.
    I usually don't even reply to the gougers, as it is their Right to decide what they believe is a fair price for whatever wares they have, but in the odd instance that I do reply, it's not to berate them. I simply give a counteroffer I find a little more reasonable. Worked once for me.

    To the OP: I almost forgot, Big 5 and WalMart seem to be getting stuff back on the shelves here too. It's still a meager supply, but it's definitely better than seeing bare shelves.
    Last edited by Rusty Young Man; 11-18-2013 at 08:27 PM.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Regular Member WCEarp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    What is price gouging?


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    Though I may regret this, "I'll play along."

    Price gouging would be charging an amount that causes a hardship on most customers. This price increase would be brought on by sudden or near sudden factors that are outside of the fair market's control. Example: a tornado devastates a remote town and the local grocery store charging 10x the normal price. The price hike is done to take advantage of a customer's dire need and being the only one with the short-term supply. Price gouging is typically done during natural disasters or times of societal breakdown.

    In the instance of the OP, price gouging is used to describe a distaste for the increase in pricing of ammo. This price brought on by a very high demand coupled with a very low supply. IMHO the price equalized at a level equal to a point that most customers were willing to pay for a commodity that they considered a want not a need. The supply has increased and the demand has diminished causing the price to drop. There are still people trying to sell ammo at the higher price and finding that the market will no longer allow ammo to be sold at the higher price.


    Eye95- I am sure, as you have previously shown, that you understand the concept of supply and demand. You have stated what your view of the term price gouging is. Why didn't you just state that you felt there was no price gouging on ammo? You started with the quoted question. You have done this enough to know that it would only start the conversation in a negative way. Your constant confrontational posts present a negative image for the forum as a whole. They are not constructive but argumentative. It hurts this forum and presents a bad image to those who are directed to this site in search of information about Open Carry. I am not asking you to refrain from your usual thought out and informative posts. Your strong and unwavering opinions are nice to read from time to time. Your tactics of using sarcasm, requiring people to show quotes of where they or you did or didn't say something, saying that's all your going to say on the subject and your done talking with someone, only to keep posting with them, are all tactics that turn people off and make this forum as a whole worse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man View Post
    On that note, what do you guys think of buying one of those (incredibly realistic) CO2 1911 pistols to practice "shooting" with? I figure, if ammo is scarce, it should keep you from getting too Rusty?
    That's how I started, as a poor sailor in about 1972. I put a cardboard box, diagonally across my barracks room, with a nickel-sized hole in it. While others were out drinking, I learned to almost never miss that hole. Eventually I clamped a light to the barrel and went on big game hunts on the long abandoned second and third floors, shooting palmetto bugs.

    I was poor for saving money. In 1973 I bought my first pistol, a P-38 that I hated. I traded it for an Interarms Mauser Luger in about 1977 and my love of pistols was cemented.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WCEarp View Post
    Though I may regret this, "I'll play along."

    Price gouging would be charging an amount that causes a hardship on most customers. This price increase would be brought on by sudden or near sudden factors that are outside of the fair market's control. Example: a tornado devastates a remote town and the local grocery store charging 10x the normal price. The price hike is done to take advantage of a customer's dire need and being the only one with the short-term supply. Price gouging is typically done during natural disasters or times of societal breakdown.

    In the instance of the OP, price gouging is used to describe a distaste for the increase in pricing of ammo. This price brought on by a very high demand coupled with a very low supply. IMHO the price equalized at a level equal to a point that most customers were willing to pay for a commodity that they considered a want not a need. The supply has increased and the demand has diminished causing the price to drop. There are still people trying to sell ammo at the higher price and finding that the market will no longer allow ammo to be sold at the higher price.


    Eye95- I am sure, as you have previously shown, that you understand the concept of supply and demand. You have stated what your view of the term price gouging is. Why didn't you just state that you felt there was no price gouging on ammo? You started with the quoted question. You have done this enough to know that it would only start the conversation in a negative way. Your constant confrontational posts present a negative image for the forum as a whole. They are not constructive but argumentative. It hurts this forum and presents a bad image to those who are directed to this site in search of information about Open Carry. I am not asking you to refrain from your usual thought out and informative posts. Your strong and unwavering opinions are nice to read from time to time. Your tactics of using sarcasm, requiring people to show quotes of where they or you did or didn't say something, saying that's all your going to say on the subject and your done talking with someone, only to keep posting with them, are all tactics that turn people off and make this forum as a whole worse.
    The hardship occurs when folks can't get what they need because prices were held artificially low due an emotional reaction to high prices as a result of low supply relative to demand. Economics 101. Really. Economics 101. It's absolutely free. Take it.

    Using terms like "price gouging" feeds the emotional reaction.

    High prices as a result of supply not meeting demand (not "price gouging") accomplishes to very important things: It motivates more production and lowers demand. Economics 101. Take it. It's free.

    Oh, and as far as your opinion as to what this site looks like when I force people outside of their comfortable boxes: meh. I don't want folks seeing a site where so many posters think there is such a thing as price gouging. Get over it.


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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    South Carolina Code 39-5-145. Price gouging during emergency; definitions; penalty; evidence of knowledge or intent

    Current as of: 2009

    (A) As used in this section:

    (1) "Abnormal disruption of the market" means a change in the market for a commodity in a part of South Carolina, whether actual or imminently threatened, resulting from stress of weather, forces of nature, failure or shortage of electric power or other source of energy, strike, civil disorder, or other cause that constitutes the basis for an out-of-state declaration.

    http://www.lawserver.com/law/state/s..._code_39-5-145
    Check your state's laws. SC enacted a price gouging law after hurricane Hugo. There is no ammo price gouging, thanks to the Interwebs.

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