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Thread: Sen. Creigh Deeds stabbed, son shot

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Sen. Creigh Deeds stabbed, son shot

    Sen. Creigh Deeds, D-Bath, is in critical condition after being stabbed in his home and his son Gus is dead from a gunshot wound, law enforcement sources told the Richmond Times-Dispatch this morning.
    Deeds is being treated at the University of Virginia Medical Center.
    Authorities said they are trying to determine the sequence of events at the Deeds home in Bath County early today.

    Further details were not immediately available.

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    reports saying son stabbed dad multiple times and shot self.
    Last edited by CT Barfly; 11-19-2013 at 11:59 AM.

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    Here's an update - kid has a psych evaluation in Bath County Hospital on Monday - I've been through Bath county many times and have never noticed a medical facility - probably conducted by a high school teacher with a psych book at the back of the IGA store. Of course there are no psych beds in Western VA - no one 'that matters' lives in beautiful flyover country. So sorry for the family & the mentally tormented son. Prayers with them and his family. Would suppose that the son was depressed over not being able to get things together.



    http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/st...a4bcf6878.html
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    Sen. Creigh Deeds was stabbed multiple times early today at his Bath County home and his son, Gus, is dead from an apparent self-inflicted gunshot wound. Gus Deeds had been released Monday following a mental health evaluation performed under an emergency custody order, an official said.

    I had to read the article twice ... not very well written IMO.

    Crazy kid, crazy dad. Crazy kid stabs crazy dad. Crazy kid shoots and kills self.
    Why did crazy kid not shoot crazy dad? Who knows - he was crazy.

    Crazy kid was 24 yrs old. Good hospital he went to --- maybe obamacare made him get cut loose too soon...

    I had nothing to do with the incident(s)....



    "I urge all Virginians today to join me in praying for a full and complete recovery for Creigh and for many more years of his public service to the Commonwealth. At this moment, our state unites in prayer for Creigh Deeds and his family. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4302273.html

    Pray for a full recovery? Hey, lets not get crazy. He's still a demorat.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 11-19-2013 at 03:33 PM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Sen. Creigh Deeds was stabbed multiple times early today at his Bath County home and his son, Gus, is dead from an apparent self-inflicted gunshot wound. Gus Deeds had been released Monday following a mental health evaluation performed under an emergency custody order, an official said.

    I had to read the article twice ... not very well written IMO.

    Crazy kid, crazy dad. Crazy kid stabs crazy dad. Crazy kid shoots and kills self.
    Why did crazy kid not shoot crazy dad? Who knows - he was crazy.

    Crazy kid was 24 yrs old. Good hospital he went to --- maybe obamacare made him get cut loose too soon...

    I had nothing to do with the incident(s)....



    "I urge all Virginians today to join me in praying for a full and complete recovery for Creigh and for many more years of his public service to the Commonwealth. At this moment, our state unites in prayer for Creigh Deeds and his family. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4302273.html

    Pray for a full recovery? Hey, lets not get crazy. He's still a demorat.
    I find your comment above repugnant. I quoted it to show others how not to reply.

    I wish no man ill will, especially under the circumstances as depicted on the news. This is a day that no member of his family will ever forget. It is said that Sen. Deeds loved his son very much. By any account it is a tragedy.

    To paraphrase Thumper from Bambi, "If you can't say sumthin nice, put a sock in it."
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Been keeping the senator in my prayers. There's been a lot to keep up with today 'round here with this and the student getting shot by police at a Liberty University dorm.
    Last edited by jmelvin; 11-19-2013 at 04:11 PM.

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    Regular Member JustaShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    I find your comment above repugnant. I quoted it to show others how not to reply.

    I wish no man ill will, especially under the circumstances as depicted on the news. This is a day that no member of his family will ever forget. It is said that Sen. Deeds loved his son very much. By any account it is a tragedy.

    To paraphrase Thumper from Bambi, "If you can't say sumthin nice, put a sock in it."
    Thank you for putting it better than I would have. I had to take a few minutes after reading that trash to cool off before posting. Still not sure I'd have been able to stay within forum rules.
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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    I wish no man ill will, especially under the circumstances as depicted on the news.
    Well put.

    Live by the Golden Rule.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    My first reaction in a situation like this is to worry about how it can be used by the anti's and I have to admit to privately expressing some relief that there was not a third person involved.

    That said, regardless of my opinion of the Senator's political views, I can only see him as a man struggling with death and knowing the pain of losing a son if he lives.
    I used to wonder if you (David) are really as childish as you appear to be, I just don't care anymore though.

    Grapeshot said:

    I find your comment above repugnant. I quoted it to show others how not to reply.

    I wish no man ill will, especially under the circumstances as depicted on the news. This is a day that no member of his family will ever forget. It is said that Sen. Deeds loved his son very much. By any account it is a tragedy.

    To paraphrase Thumper from Bambi, "If you can't say sumthin nice, put a sock in it."


    Which is exactly why he's a far better man than many of us!

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    [SIZE=1]"I urge all Virginians today to join me in praying for a full and complete recovery for Creigh and for many more years of his public service to the Commonwealth. At this moment, our state unites in prayer for Creigh Deeds and his family."
    Joined.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    As has been noted, Gus had a psych eval and was supposed to be held for 72 hours. The assertion that there was "no bed available" is utter BS. The Sheriff could transport him to the nearest hospital with a bed in a secure ward, or if needed all the way to Western State Hospital in Staunton for the hold/eval.

    This tragedy points out two things - the need for more stringent knife laws, icluding background checks, and the failure of the mental health sysyem. The only connection between guns and this tragedy is that Gus used one to (apparently) kill himself.

    If a family member is disturbed enough to need an involuntary psych eval they are not stable/safe enough to bring back to a home where they can get access to knives, hammers, dental floss, or anything else that could be used to harm themself or anybody else. Allowing them to return home to wait for a bed to become available is not good for them or anybody else.

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    As has been noted, Gus had a psych eval and was supposed to be held for 72 hours. The assertion that there was "no bed available" is utter BS. The Sheriff could transport him to the nearest hospital with a bed in a secure ward, or if needed all the way to Western State Hospital in Staunton for the hold/eval.

    This tragedy points out two things - the need for more stringent knife laws, icluding background checks, and the failure of the mental health sysyem. The only connection between guns and this tragedy is that Gus used one to (apparently) kill himself.

    If a family member is disturbed enough to need an involuntary psych eval they are not stable/safe enough to bring back to a home where they can get access to knives, hammers, dental floss, or anything else that could be used to harm themself or anybody else. Allowing them to return home to wait for a bed to become available is not good for them or anybody else.

    stay safe.
    Not vouching for anyone or anything because I wasn't there, but I have to disagree on it being that easy to just "transport". I'm pretty familiar with the process, I was a security officer with a local large hospital for a few years (go ahead chuckle) and had to deal with mentally unstable people ALOT. In our ER it was a constant occurance. Patient gets sectioned (legal jargon for being forced to get help) they come to hospital. Counselor sees them, they swear they aren't crazy or they even admit to being crazy. Counselor makes some phone calls about a bed, meaning treatment centers. This is based on a few variables to include health insurance (beds aren't free). If there aren't any beds they either let you go home with FAMILY or keep you in hospital. The problem is if a guy says hes stable, the family takes him home, and then he snaps you get this.

    I'm familiar with it on this end because now I'm one of the guys who has to go to your house when you (anyone) is freaking out apeshit with the knife. We then grab you and force you in the ambulance so you don't stab anyone else. If there are no beds they can and do release you, sometimes. Flip side.... if the hospital holds you waiting for a bed you are taking up valuable safe for the other sick people and you scream (I would) that they are holding you against your free will.

    Moral of the story... mental health is NEVER simple and a convoluted process at best. My heart goes out to the family I wish them the best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    As has been noted, Gus had a psych eval and was supposed to be held for 72 hours. The assertion that there was "no bed available" is utter BS. The Sheriff could transport him to the nearest hospital with a bed in a secure ward, or if needed all the way to Western State Hospital in Staunton for the hold/eval.

    This tragedy points out two things - the need for more stringent knife laws, icluding background checks, and the failure of the mental health sysyem. The only connection between guns and this tragedy is that Gus used one to (apparently) kill himself.

    If a family member is disturbed enough to need an involuntary psych eval they are not stable/safe enough to bring back to a home where they can get access to knives, hammers, dental floss, or anything else that could be used to harm themself or anybody else. Allowing them to return home to wait for a bed to become available is not good for them or anybody else.

    stay safe.
    Bingo! Unfortunately this fathers love for his son is probably what affected his better judgement.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Not vouching for anyone or anything because I wasn't there......--snipped--

    Moral of the story... mental health is NEVER simple and a convoluted process at best. My heart goes out to the family I wish them the best.
    But if your background/experience wasn't in Virginia, then it isn't relevant.

    Skidmark's comments come from an in depth knowledge of working with these specific issues in Virginia.

    Bottom line IMO is that the system failed........again.
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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    But if your background/experience wasn't in Virginia, then it isn't relevant.

    Skidmark's comments come from an in depth knowledge of working with these specific issues in Virginia.

    Bottom line IMO is that the system failed........again.
    Sir, pretty sure that the mental health issues we are talking about are Nation wide. In fact, he made a blanket statement saying that if you have mental health problems you shouldn't be released to place that has "floss, knives, etc. etc.". I wasn't under the impression that he was specifically speaking for Virginia's mentally ill or Virginia's mental health problem. Also, I was under the impression that this was in the light of the OC/gun rights and mental health issues as several guys have made comments about the connection.

    If I'm wrong and this was specifically about Virginia's mentally ill and their specific mental health care (it sounds the same as our process) then I apologize for butting in.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Sir, pretty sure that the mental health issues we are talking about are Nation wide. In fact, he made a blanket statement saying that if you have mental health problems you shouldn't be released to place that has "floss, knives, etc. etc.". I wasn't under the impression that he was specifically speaking for Virginia's mentally ill or Virginia's mental health problem. Also, I was under the impression that this was in the light of the OC/gun rights and mental health issues as several guys have made comments about the connection.

    If I'm wrong and this was specifically about Virginia's mentally ill and their specific mental health care (it sounds the same as our process) then I apologize for butting in.
    This is not a general mental heath issue thread. Nation wide issues have no place here and are off topic.

    This thread is about a member of the Virginia General Assembly (Sen. Deeds), his family, and events affected by Virginia's mental health system that transpired in the last few days.
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    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Men of class.

    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    My first reaction in a situation like this is to worry about how it can be used by the anti's and I have to admit to privately expressing some relief that there was not a third person involved.

    That said, regardless of my opinion of the Senator's political views, I can only see him as a man struggling with death and knowing the pain of losing a son if he lives.
    I used to wonder if you (David) are really as childish as you appear to be, I just don't care anymore though.

    Grapeshot said:



    Which is exactly why he's a far better man than many of us!
    Childish? Far nicer than I would have put it.

    You and Grapeshot have far more tolerance than I of his kind.

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    Ever consider that the Sen. shot his kid but would not want to admit to that?

    Oh, the antis would not like that outcome .. a citizen defending himself ...

    But that scenario makes more sense to me.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Ever consider that the Sen. shot his kid but would not want to admit to that?

    Oh, the antis would not like that outcome .. a citizen defending himself ...

    But that scenario makes more sense to me.
    So your implying it's a cover up? By who? "antis"? Which ones?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    So your implying it's a cover up? By who? "antis"? Which ones?
    Not implying anything ... just to consider possibilities, alternative series of events contrary to what has been reported.

    Who do you think would be involved in such a cover up?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Not vouching for anyone or anything because I wasn't there, but I have to disagree on it being that easy to just "transport". I'm pretty familiar with the process, I was a security officer with a local large hospital for a few years (go ahead chuckle) and had to deal with mentally unstable people ALOT. In our ER it was a constant occurance. Patient gets sectioned (legal jargon for being forced to get help) they come to hospital. Counselor sees them, they swear they aren't crazy or they even admit to being crazy. Counselor makes some phone calls about a bed, meaning treatment centers. This is based on a few variables to include health insurance (beds aren't free). If there aren't any beds they either let you go home with FAMILY or keep you in hospital. The problem is if a guy says hes stable, the family takes him home, and then he snaps you get this.

    I'm familiar with it on this end because now I'm one of the guys who has to go to your house when you (anyone) is freaking out apeshit with the knife. We then grab you and force you in the ambulance so you don't stab anyone else. If there are no beds they can and do release you, sometimes. Flip side.... if the hospital holds you waiting for a bed you are taking up valuable safe for the other sick people and you scream (I would) that they are holding you against your free will.

    Moral of the story... mental health is NEVER simple and a convoluted process at best. My heart goes out to the family I wish them the best.
    The problem with your above is that Gus was seen on Monday for a pych eval and the recommendation was that he be temporarily detained for a 72-hour observation. Get 2 doctors or a doc & 2 psychologists to sign that part of the Green Warrant in Virginia and it takes a very brave judge or a really fast-talking attorney to not have person held. And in Virginia the judge is going to have to put in writing why, if Gus was certified as needing temporary detention, he did not order it. And the Sheriff is going to need to put in writing on the return of the warrant why Gus was not transported. No available bed locally will not cut it when the law clearly states he could be transported anywhere in the Commonwealth. http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...+cod+15.2-1724 and http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...cod+16.1-340.1

    And if you are the guy stuffing folks into an ambulance it sounds like you are not the on-call certified MH clinician that is usually involved as the first-line decision-maker of dangerousness to self or others. Those folks really hate putting their hands on anybody, but especially potentially crazy people.

    stay safe.
    Last edited by skidmark; 11-20-2013 at 08:23 AM. Reason: added second Code of Va citation
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Virginia subforum, Virginia politician, Virginia jurisdiction. What part of Virginia don't you understand?

    BTW to add, I have never stuffed anyone in an ambulance as a police officer~~that is their job. We secured them until they arrive, and only ride along if requested. If the stuffee is under arrest a escort is provided.

    The more you post the more I doubt you.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 11-20-2013 at 08:36 AM.
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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    [SIZE=1]

    Pray for a full recovery? Hey, lets not get crazy. He's still a demorat.
    Bad David!

    Bashing somebody because of political affiliation exposes an inferior intellect.

    Bashing someone in their hour of need shows inferior character.

    You are not learning from your mistakes David.. It is a pity because many posters in this forum show significant intellectual growth over time. You are not in that category.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    David, I'll bet your conspiracy theory is wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Ever consider that the Sen. shot his kid but would not want to admit to that?

    Oh, the antis would not like that outcome .. a citizen defending himself ...

    But that scenario makes more sense to me.
    Forensic evidence remains. Rest assured it will be processed. This is Virginia. You are acting like a conspiracy kook.

    I will make a bet with you David. If your conspiracy about the senator murdering his son and anti gun activists covering it up is right, then I will leave this forum. If your conspiracy theory is wrong, then you will leave the forum. Do you accept?

    Live Free or Die,
    Thundar
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    The kind of thing David said 'on forum' would be acceptable as a snarky comment at a luncheon of ole grizzled Republican gun owners, because he could show it was just being light-heartedly dark about not the Sen. but the party.

    It's just that said in stark text with no context it looks childish. I mean let's face it, most men are childish.

    It's better to be more restrained on the forum, though. Let's not get carried away.

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