Sen. Creigh Deeds stabbed, son shot

skidmark · Nov 20, 2013

Primus said:
Not vouching for anyone or anything because I wasn't there, but I have to disagree on it being that easy to just "transport". I'm pretty familiar with the process, I was a security officer with a local large hospital for a few years (go ahead chuckle) and had to deal with mentally unstable people ALOT. In our ER it was a constant occurance. Patient gets sectioned (legal jargon for being forced to get help) they come to hospital. Counselor sees them, they swear they aren't crazy or they even admit to being crazy. Counselor makes some phone calls about a bed, meaning treatment centers. This is based on a few variables to include health insurance (beds aren't free). If there aren't any beds they either let you go home with FAMILY or keep you in hospital. The problem is if a guy says hes stable, the family takes him home, and then he snaps you get this.

I'm familiar with it on this end because now I'm one of the guys who has to go to your house when you (anyone) is freaking out apeshit with the knife. We then grab you and force you in the ambulance so you don't stab anyone else. If there are no beds they can and do release you, sometimes. Flip side.... if the hospital holds you waiting for a bed you are taking up valuable safe for the other sick people and you scream (I would) that they are holding you against your free will.

Moral of the story... mental health is NEVER simple and a convoluted process at best. My heart goes out to the family I wish them the best.

The problem with your above is that Gus was seen on Monday for a pych eval and the recommendation was that he be temporarily detained for a 72-hour observation. Get 2 doctors or a doc & 2 psychologists to sign that part of the Green Warrant in Virginia and it takes a very brave judge or a really fast-talking attorney to not have person held. And in Virginia the judge is going to have to put in writing why, if Gus was certified as needing temporary detention, he did not order it. And the Sheriff is going to need to put in writing on the return of the warrant why Gus was not transported. No available bed locally will not cut it when the law clearly states he could be transported anywhere in the Commonwealth. http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+15.2-1724 and http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+16.1-340.1

And if you are the guy stuffing folks into an ambulance it sounds like you are not the on-call certified MH clinician that is usually involved as the first-line decision-maker of dangerousness to self or others. Those folks really hate putting their hands on anybody, but especially potentially crazy people.

stay safe.

WalkingWolf · Nov 20, 2013

Virginia subforum, Virginia politician, Virginia jurisdiction. What part of Virginia don't you understand?

BTW to add, I have never stuffed anyone in an ambulance as a police officer~~that is their job. We secured them until they arrive, and only ride along if requested. If the stuffee is under arrest a escort is provided.

The more you post the more I doubt you.

Thundar · Nov 20, 2013

davidmcbeth said:
Pray for a full recovery? Hey, lets not get crazy. He's still a demorat.

Bad David!

Bashing somebody because of political affiliation exposes an inferior intellect.

Bashing someone in their hour of need shows inferior character.

You are not learning from your mistakes David.. It is a pity because many posters in this forum show significant intellectual growth over time. You are not in that category.

Live Free or Die,
Thundar

Thundar · Nov 20, 2013

David, I'll bet your conspiracy theory is wrong

davidmcbeth said:
Ever consider that the Sen. shot his kid but would not want to admit to that?

Oh, the antis would not like that outcome .. a citizen defending himself ...

But that scenario makes more sense to me.

Forensic evidence remains. Rest assured it will be processed. This is Virginia. You are acting like a conspiracy kook.

I will make a bet with you David. If your conspiracy about the senator murdering his son and anti gun activists covering it up is right, then I will leave this forum. If your conspiracy theory is wrong, then you will leave the forum. Do you accept?

Live Free or Die,
Thundar

Maverick9 · Nov 20, 2013

The kind of thing David said 'on forum' would be acceptable as a snarky comment at a luncheon of ole grizzled Republican gun owners, because he could show it was just being light-heartedly dark about not the Sen. but the party.

It's just that said in stark text with no context it looks childish. I mean let's face it, most men are childish.

It's better to be more restrained on the forum, though. Let's not get carried away.

Grapeshot · Nov 20, 2013

Now we are getting side tracked and into personalities - think the point has been made.

Back on topic - Senator Deeds is improving - condition rated as "good" now.

How in the hell is he going to deal with this. Gotta be some major scars.

peter nap · Nov 20, 2013

Grapeshot said:
How in the hell is he going to deal with this. Gotta be some major scars.

Yep! Even as a father I can't imagine how gut wrenching that would be.
No one should outlive their children, especially when they lose them like that.

Any word on how long the kid has had problems?

Citizen · Nov 20, 2013

I can't remember Deeds' position on guns. I have this vague feeling he wasn't all that great a friend to the pro-self-defense community. Can anybody fill in the gap for me?

peter nap · Nov 20, 2013

Citizen said:
I can't remember Deeds' position on guns. I have this vague feeling he wasn't all that great a friend to the pro-self-defense community. Can anybody fill in the gap for me?

He talked pro and voted anti....every once in a while he would cross a line.

He was much like Lori Haas. Lori always claims to be pro gun, she and her husband own guns....but she believes in tight regulation.

Deeds talked a little more pro than she does. You can't represent a place like Bath and be blatantly anti.

Grapeshot · Nov 20, 2013

peter nap said:
--snipped--

Any word on how long the kid has had problems?

While there have been references to "long term" from several sources, I haven't seen anything concrete.

Believe it was Senator Deeds that precipitated the evaluation for his son, Austin (Gus) Deeds. I would think that would be an indicator of some past experience and recognition of a need for intervention.

davidmcbeth · Nov 20, 2013

I will make a bet with you David. If your conspiracy about the senator murdering his son and anti gun activists covering it up is right, then I will leave this forum. If your conspiracy theory is wrong, then you will leave the forum. Do you accept?

Live Free or Die,
Thundar[/QUOTE]

No, I enjoy reading many of your posts. But maybe you can FOIA (records request) the forensic evidence collected and see for yourself instead of accepting the gov't employee's conclusions. If one assumes that the Sen. shot his attacker in self defense - would the gov't ever actually tell us that? I doubt it. It like if obamalama wrote an email or letter that states that he actually believes that the RKBA should be w/o regulation but he has to take the position to push for gun control due to his party affiliation - we would never see such a record even if produced.

davidmcbeth · Nov 20, 2013

Maverick9 said:
The kind of thing David said 'on forum' would be acceptable as a snarky comment at a luncheon of ole grizzled Republican gun owners, because he could show it was just being light-heartedly dark about not the Sen. but the party.

It's just that said in stark text with no context it looks childish. I mean let's face it, most men are childish.

It's better to be more restrained on the forum, though. Let's not get carried away.

Many other pro-gun boards have had similar postings as mine ~ not many or any personal attacks or attacks on the post as I have gotten. Hmmmm. Seems as if I am not alone.

peter nap · Nov 20, 2013

davidmcbeth said:
I will make a bet with you David. If your conspiracy about the senator murdering his son and anti gun activists covering it up is right, then I will leave this forum. If your conspiracy theory is wrong, then you will leave the forum. Do you accept?

Live Free or Die,
Thundar

No, I enjoy reading many of your posts. But maybe you can FOIA (records request) the forensic evidence collected [/QUOTE]

That will be a good trick since they're not FOIAble in Va.

OC for ME · Nov 20, 2013

peter nap said:
<snip> That will be a good trick since they're not FOIAble in Va.

And who made that rule? Yepper, the gubmint.

Tanner · Nov 20, 2013

Wow. This is terrible to say the least. I need to start keeping up with you guys again. Your form of debate and the tact that is "often" used to correct or otherwise scold people has always been impressive to me.

I have had a very personal experience of the destruction events like this cause a family. I once trained a guy who's stepfather killed and shot his mother then himself. We were in Indianapolis and I had to drive him back to Bedford to get him home. Only later did I learn that his stepfather was diagnosed with alzhimers two weeks before going on the road with me. My heart bleeds for anyone who has to deal with anything like this.

Image the internal struggle both parties would experience. A father who knows his son is sick being faced with the decision to let his son kill him or defend himself, and a son conflicted in was we just can't comprehend. There is not win in any way this would have turned out.
Could it have been prevented? Maybe. Maybe not. But making light of this is a shame. I will never understand why some people lack empathy. On a forum that talks a lot about what could happen you'd think most members wouldn't be so passive.

Thank God my biggest problem is if I can afford the new Xbox coming out Friday!

Grapeshot · Nov 20, 2013

davidmcbeth said:
Many other pro-gun boards have had similar postings as mine ~ not many or any personal attacks or attacks on the post as I have gotten. Hmmmm. Seems as if I am not alone.

Other sites have no bearing on what happens on OCDO.

I see less personal attacks and more attempting to redirect you to post pointedly to the issue and not be so far off the wall.

peter nap · Nov 20, 2013

davidmcbeth said:
Many other pro-gun boards have had similar postings as mine ~ not many or any personal attacks or attacks on the post as I have gotten. Hmmmm. Seems as if I am not alone.

.

If you had any idea how often I'm reminded to NOT jump up your sorry butt by the powers that be, you wouldn't whine about being attacked.
You're being treated with kidd gloves. :uhoh:

Tanner · Nov 20, 2013

peter nap said:
.

If you had any idea how often I'm reminded to NOT jump up your sorry butt by the powers that be, you wouldn't whine about being attacked.
You're being treated with kidd gloves. :uhoh:

The adult glove are made of sandpaper and spikes with a hide away dillinger. No worries though he stopped using those when he got rid of the CHP.

HPmatt · Nov 20, 2013

Grapeshot said:
While there have been references to "long term" from several sources, I haven't seen anything concrete.

Article said Gus had been enrolled at Wm & Mary off & on since 2007 - 6 years+, so I think that right there tells you there had been some problems along the way. Heard from one article the boy was on the Dean's list, so not a dummy.

Primus · Nov 20, 2013

skidmark said:
The problem with your above is that Gus was seen on Monday for a pych eval and the recommendation was that he be temporarily detained for a 72-hour observation. Get 2 doctors or a doc & 2 psychologists to sign that part of the Green Warrant in Virginia and it takes a very brave judge or a really fast-talking attorney to not have person held. And in Virginia the judge is going to have to put in writing why, if Gus was certified as needing temporary detention, he did not order it. And the Sheriff is going to need to put in writing on the return of the warrant why Gus was not transported. No available bed locally will not cut it when the law clearly states he could be transported anywhere in the Commonwealth. http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+15.2-1724 and http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+16.1-340.1

And if you are the guy stuffing folks into an ambulance it sounds like you are not the on-call certified MH clinician that is usually involved as the first-line decision-maker of dangerousness to self or others. Those folks really hate putting their hands on anybody, but especially potentially crazy people.

stay safe.

Was the Green warrant signed? The article didn't go in to detail. It said he was recommended to be detained. A reccomendation could be a Nurse saying she recommends he has treatment, or an ER Dr. making a recommendation. If it didn't reach the level of a Green warrant, then he could still go home with his family.

Sen. Creigh Deeds stabbed, son shot

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