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Thread: Open carry while using trot line or set line methods?

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    Regular Member 2OLD2W8's Avatar
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    Open carry while using trot line or set line methods?

    Trot line and/or set line fishing is a legal method of "unattended" fishing in many parts of Florida. So......,

    "Technically" using the state's definition of fishing, in conjunction with F.S. 790.25 (3) (h), a person engaged in the setline or trotline fishing activity should be legal to open carry as long as their (unattended) legal lines are in the water.

    Could this be, as stated by law, a legal avenue to open carry 24/7 ?????


    Additionally, for participants using motorcycles or bicycles as a mode of transportation, the gear needed is also much less cumbersome . No need for rod and/or reel anymore.

    Per, The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission,
    (Fishing regulations)
    Methods of taking fish

    Nongame Fish: all freshwater fish are defined as nongame fish, except grass carp and fish defined as freshwater game fish. Note: Alligator gar require a scientific collector’s permit to take.

    Nongame fish may be taken:

    With pole-and-line, or rod-and-reel, and by bush hook, setline or trotline baited with cut bait or other substance; but not including live game fish or any part of any game fish; bush hooks, setlines or trotlines (limited to 25 hooks total) are permitted for taking nongame fish for personal use, but only in those areas where trotlines may be lawfully used in accordance with the Wildlife Code of the State of Florida. Refer to the “Commercial Freshwater Fisheries Rules and Regulations Summary.” Bush hooks, setlines and trotlines must be clearly and legibly marked with the harvester’s name and address while being used or possessed in or upon the waters of the state.
    “We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” Ayn Rand

    "free people ought...to be armed." In so doing we grasp the larger lesson that the ability to defend ourselves is part and parcel to our freedom. George Washington , January 7, 1790

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2OLD2W8 View Post
    Trot line and/or set line fishing is a legal method of "unattended" fishing in many parts of Florida. So......,

    "Technically" using the state's definition of fishing, in conjunction with F.S. 790.25 (3) (h), a person engaged in the setline or trotline fishing activity should be legal to open carry as long as their (unattended) legal lines are in the water.

    Could this be, as stated by law, a legal avenue to open carry 24/7 ?????


    Additionally, for participants using motorcycles or bicycles as a mode of transportation, the gear needed is also much less cumbersome . No need for rod and/or reel anymore.

    Per, The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission,
    (Fishing regulations)
    Methods of taking fish

    Nongame Fish: all freshwater fish are defined as nongame fish, except grass carp and fish defined as freshwater game fish. Note: Alligator gar require a scientific collector’s permit to take.

    Nongame fish may be taken:

    With pole-and-line, or rod-and-reel, and by bush hook, setline or trotline baited with cut bait or other substance; but not including live game fish or any part of any game fish; bush hooks, setlines or trotlines (limited to 25 hooks total) are permitted for taking nongame fish for personal use, but only in those areas where trotlines may be lawfully used in accordance with the Wildlife Code of the State of Florida. Refer to the “Commercial Freshwater Fisheries Rules and Regulations Summary.” Bush hooks, setlines and trotlines must be clearly and legibly marked with the harvester’s name and address while being used or possessed in or upon the waters of the state.
    Hope you enjoy jail and paying fines. No competent Court would rule in your favor. Unless you were at the location of your lines or on you way to or from those locations.

    Plus the fact the trotlines are far more regulated than pole-and-line or rod-and-reel.

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    Regular Member 2OLD2W8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    Hope you enjoy jail and paying fines. No competent Court would rule in your favor. Unless you were at the location of your lines or on you way to or from those locations.

    Plus the fact the trotlines are far more regulated than pole-and-line or rod-and-reel.
    Hope you enjoy jail and paying fines.
    Not any more than you do....

    Unless you were at the location of your lines or on you way to or from those locations.
    That was my point, anyone practicing this method can be fishing in multiple locations all over the state at any given time.. So, any direction of travel at any time can be used as "to or from" our tagged gear fishing spots... I would always keep a spare trotline/setline rig setup with me just in case some lowlife stole my tagged rig before getting back to check on it (always a possibility).

    Plus the fact the trotlines are far more regulated than pole-and-line or rod-and-reel.
    Your point is ?
    “We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” Ayn Rand

    "free people ought...to be armed." In so doing we grasp the larger lesson that the ability to defend ourselves is part and parcel to our freedom. George Washington , January 7, 1790

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2OLD2W8 View Post
    Not any more than you do....



    That was my point, anyone practicing this method can be fishing in multiple locations all over the state at any given time.. So, any direction of travel at any time can be used as "to or from" our tagged gear fishing spots... I would always keep a spare trotline/setline rig setup with me just in case some lowlife stole my tagged rig before getting back to check on it (always a possibility).



    Your point is ?
    Point is that it's easier to just keep a fishing pole of some kind with you as opposed to trotline where you would need to be sure of the specific regulations of each location you were 'claiming' to be traveling to. In many locations trotlines are not permitted on weekends or after 9PM or daylight hours only, etc. KISS

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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    Point is that it's easier to just keep a fishing pole of some kind with you as opposed to trotline where you would need to be sure of the specific regulations of each location you were 'claiming' to be traveling to. In many locations trotlines are not permitted on weekends or after 9PM or daylight hours only, etc. KISS
    Point is that it's easier to just keep a fishing pole of some kind with you as opposed to trotline
    Isn't it wonderful that as individuals, sometimes we get to make the choice about what works best for our particular needs and situations. Fishing pole or trotline method should make no difference, fishing is fishing and is accomplished in many ways with multiple methods...I don't read any specifics in the statute as to how to properly fish in order to open carry.

    As long as we follow the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission's (Fishing regulations) we should be good to go and legal. The FFWCC has included this statement on their Methods of taking fish website page...

    *NOTE:Statutory provisions (790.052(3), F.S.) made it lawful for persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes including fishing, camping, or lawful hunting or going to or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition. Consequently, although firearms maynotbe used to take fish, they can be in possession of someone with legally taken fish.



    need to be sure of the specific regulations of each location you were 'claiming' to be traveling to. In many locations trotlines are not permitted on weekends or after 9PM or daylight hours only,
    Absolutely.... as with most activities that are regulated. Just another impediment to navigate and understand while we participate and the state watches.......

    KISS
    Would you care to elaborate as to what you are inferring?
    “We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” Ayn Rand

    "free people ought...to be armed." In so doing we grasp the larger lesson that the ability to defend ourselves is part and parcel to our freedom. George Washington , January 7, 1790

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2OLD2W8 View Post
    Isn't it wonderful that as individuals, sometimes we get to make the choice about what works best for our particular needs and situations. Fishing pole or trotline method should make no difference, fishing is fishing and is accomplished in many ways with multiple methods...I don't read any specifics in the statute as to how to properly fish in order to open carry.

    As long as we follow the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission's (Fishing regulations) we should be good to go and legal. The FFWCC has included this statement on their Methods of taking fish website page...

    *NOTE:Statutory provisions (790.052(3), F.S.) made it lawful for persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes including fishing, camping, or lawful hunting or going to or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition. Consequently, although firearms maynotbe used to take fish, they can be in possession of someone with legally taken fish.





    Absolutely.... as with most activities that are regulated. Just another impediment to navigate and understand while we participate and the state watches.......



    Would you care to elaborate as to what you are inferring?


    790.052(3), F.S.
    I believe you mean 790.25(3).

    Would you care to elaborate as to what you are inferring?
    How about just following the law and not trying to stretch it to fit you agenda. If you really are going fishing, then open carry if you so choose. Don't try to twist the law to your desire to open carry all the time. I doubt it will have the outcome you desire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    I believe you mean790.25(3).

    How about just following the law and not trying to stretch it to fit you agenda. If you really are going fishing, then open carry if you so choose. Don't try to twist the law to your desire to open carry all the time. I doubt it will have the outcome you desire.
    I believe you mean790.25(3)
    I used the copy and paste method, guess I need to bring the error to there attention,,,,good catch!

    How about just following the law and not trying to stretch it to fit you agenda. If you really are going fishing, then open carry if you so choose. Don't try to twist the law to your desire to open carry all the time.
    Exactly,what part of the statute would I be twisting or stretching ? Past conversations and many unrelated posts have revealed that you are a quite versed in the law and quote it liberally to justify your statements and positions.....All I get is twisting and stretching? Don't try to read anything else into it.

    Fishing is fishing!!!!

    I'm very lucky, in my particular stage of life, I can fish any where,anytime of the day as long as I care to. I don't have any agenda, however I do have a desire to open carry all the time and believe that this fishing option is the legal path in my quest for 24/7 open carry.

    I posted the subject for discussion, reel your imagination back in!! There is no agenda, just OPTIONS.
    “We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” Ayn Rand

    "free people ought...to be armed." In so doing we grasp the larger lesson that the ability to defend ourselves is part and parcel to our freedom. George Washington , January 7, 1790

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2OLD2W8 View Post
    I used the copy and paste method, guess I need to bring the error to there attention,,,,good catch!



    Exactly,what part of the statute would I be twisting or stretching ? Past conversations and many unrelated posts have revealed that you are a quite versed in the law and quote it liberally to justify your statements and positions.....All I get is twisting and stretching? Don't try to read anything else into it.

    Fishing is fishing!!!!

    I'm very lucky, in my particular stage of life, I can fish any where,anytime of the day as long as I care to. I don't have any agenda, however I do have a desire to open carry all the time and believe that this fishing option is the legal path in my quest for 24/7 open carry.

    I posted the subject for discussion, reel your imagination back in!! There is no agenda, just OPTIONS.

    In your desire to open carry 24/7 it appears to me that you want to stretch and twist the law to allow you to do so and have concocted the opinion that having a trotline in the water somewhere unattended constitutes 'fishing'. I offered my learned opinion that it does not meet the letter of the law, nor the intention of the Legislature when they passed it, not any hint from any court in any case even remotely connected with the subject.

    But since this is still (somewhat) a free country, knock yourself out. Just make sure you have a very good firearms attorney on retainer before doing so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    In your desire to open carry 24/7 it appears to me that you want to stretch and twist the law to allow you to do so and have concocted the opinion that having a trotline in the water somewhere unattended constitutes 'fishing'. I offered my learned opinion that it does not meet the letter of the law, nor the intention of the Legislature when they passed it, not any hint from any court in any case even remotely connected with the subject.

    But since this is still (somewhat) a free country, knock yourself out. Just make sure you have a very good firearms attorney on retainer before doing so.
    concocted the opinion that having a trotline in the water somewhere unattended constitutes 'fishing'.
    Why in the world would it be regulated if it is not considered fishing? Please indulge me while I use one of your replies..
    You are incorrect.

    The Florida Constitution authorizes the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission to enact rules and regulations regarding the state's fish and wildlife resources. Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission defines it as fishing and regulates it!!!

    nor the intention of the Legislature when they passed it
    Oh I apologize, I was unaware that you were privy to the legislatures intent.. if in fact you were, do you mind sharing with the rest of us....What was their intent?

    not any hint from any court in any case even remotely connected with the subject.
    I would venture a guess that you are sharing a fact? Has not one person been arrested for open carry while traveling to and from their fishing spot? Must be legal.

    Next subject.........
    “We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” Ayn Rand

    "free people ought...to be armed." In so doing we grasp the larger lesson that the ability to defend ourselves is part and parcel to our freedom. George Washington , January 7, 1790

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    Also homeless guys can open carry 24/7 since they're always on camping, hunting expeditions. lol
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2OLD2W8 View Post
    {SNIP}
    Please avail yourself at the next available opportunity. And to speed up the process, just find a cop on your way and let him know what you're doing and get back top us on the results. Thanks.

    Depending on the time of day and the location, I give you about a 95% percent chance of taking a ride to the local jail.

    ETA: Since you are discussing this as a method to sidestep the general prohibition on open carry and attempting to persuade yourself that your unattended trotline somewhere complies with the 'exception' in 790.25(3)(h), go ahead and open carry into your favorite restaurant, or the mall, or shopping center and contact LE while there. Because as you've stated you're fishing.
    Last edited by notalawyer; 11-20-2013 at 11:10 AM. Reason: typo

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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    Please avail yourself at the next available opportunity. And to speed up the process, just find a cop on your way and let him know what you're doing and get back top us on the results. Thanks.

    Depending on the time of day and the location, I give you about a 75% percent chance of taking a ride to the local jail.

    ETA: Since you are discussing this as a method to sidestep the general prohibition on open carry and attempting to persuade yourself that your unattended trotline somewhere complies with the 'exception' in 790.25(3)(h), go ahead and open carry into your favorite restaurant, or the mall, or shopping center and contact LE while there. Because as you've stated you're fishing.

    790.25 (3) (h) A person engaged in fishing, camping, or lawful hunting or going to or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition;

    I don't see any ambiguity or situation in which statutory language is susceptible to differing constructions!! Where is this elusive hidden exception you keep referring to?

    Brook v. State:
    courts will not look behind the statute's plain language for legislative intent or resort to rules of statutory construction to ascertain such intent. Alternatively, in considering criminal statutes, the rule of lenity contained in section 775.021(1), Florida Statutes, requires that any ambiguity or situation in which statutory language is susceptible to differing constructions must be resolved in favor of the person charged with an offense.
    We are bound by the clear wording of the statute.
    With your logic and use of construction, It's probably a safe bet that you can stretch to a conclusion that a crab fisherman, is not crabbing (fishing) if he is not at his unatteded traps???

    go ahead and open carry into your favorite restaurant, or the mall, or shopping center and contact LE while there.
    There you go again.....Why do you stray out into wonderland and assume I would engage in such illegal activities. Oh, I get it,,,,,If I get arrested for that deed, then you can justify your perception that I am a lawless sidestepping statute stretcher with an agenda??

    I'm just out for a leisurely cruise with my firearm exposed while traveling to and from my "fishing expedition".

    Next topic please.
    “We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” Ayn Rand

    "free people ought...to be armed." In so doing we grasp the larger lesson that the ability to defend ourselves is part and parcel to our freedom. George Washington , January 7, 1790

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2OLD2W8 View Post
    790.25 (3) (h) A person engaged in fishing, camping, or lawful hunting or going to or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition;

    I don't see any ambiguity or situation in which statutory language is susceptible to differing constructions!! Where is this elusive hidden exception you keep referring to?

    Brook v. State:




    With your logic and use of construction, It's probably a safe bet that you can stretch to a conclusion that a crab fisherman, is not crabbing (fishing) if he is not at his unatteded traps???



    There you go again.....Why do you stray out into wonderland and assume I would engage in such illegal activities. Oh, I get it,,,,,If I get arrested for that deed, then you can justify your perception that I am a lawless sidestepping statute stretcher with an agenda??

    I'm just out for a leisurely cruise with my firearm exposed while traveling to and from my "fishing expedition".

    Next topic please.
    It's probably a safe bet that you can stretch to a conclusion that a crab fisherman, is not crabbing (fishing) if he is not at his unatteded traps???
    For the purposes of 790.25(3) and he's not on the water, then no he's not fishing.

    Why do you stray out into wonderland and assume I would engage in such illegal activities.
    Well, I'm just going by your stated desire to circumvent the law and Open Carry 24/7.

    I don't see any ambiguity or situation in which statutory language is susceptible to differing constructions!! Where is this elusive hidden exception you keep referring to?
    Here I'll give you the most likely phrase form the DCA or Florida Supreme Court:
    Notwithstanding the definition of 'fishing' as regulated by the Florida Wildlife Conservation Commission, the Legislature could not have intended a result so inconsistent with its general prohibition on Open Carry in 790.053 that anyone, by merely having an unattended trotline in the water somewhere in the state authorizes that individual to openly carry a firearm, at any time and at any place, while that trotline is in the water; for example while enjoying dinner at their favorite restaurant or while shopping for their weekly groceries. It is the opinion of this court that 'fishing' as specified in 790.25(3)(h) only encompasses the active involvement of the fisherman and requires his physical presence within a reasonable distance of his fishing equipment. Conviction is affirmed.
    Last edited by notalawyer; 11-20-2013 at 11:32 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    For the purposes of 790.25(3) and he's not on the water, then no he's not fishing.

    Well, I'm just going by your stated desire to circumvent the law and Open Carry 24/7.

    Here I'll give you the most likely phrase form the DCA or Florida Supreme Court:
    Notwithstanding the definition of 'fishing' as regulated by the Florida Wildlife Conservation Commission, the Legislature could not have intended a result so inconsistent with its general prohibition on Open Carry in 790.053 that anyone, by merely having an unattended trotline in the water somewhere in the state authorizes that individual to openly carry a firearm, at any time and at any place, while that trotline is in the water; for example while enjoying dinner at their favorite restaurant or while shopping for their weekly groceries. It is the opinion of this court that 'fishing' as specified in 790.25(3)(h) only encompasses the active involvement of the fisherman and requires his physical presence within a reasonable distance of his fishing equipment. Conviction is affirmed.
    Nice try, talk about going off on a tangent. There you go again!!! Why are you hung hung up on activities I will not be participating in? Why do you keep interjecting them into the conversation????

    My first post was,,,,,

    Open carry while using trot line or set line methods?
    Trot line and/or set line fishing is a legal method of "unattended" fishing in many parts of Florida. So......,

    "Technically" using the state's definition of fishing, in conjunction with F.S. 790.25 (3) (h), a person engaged in the setline or trotline fishing activity should be legal to open carry as long as their (unattended) legal lines are in the water.

    Could this be, as stated by law, a legal avenue to open carry 24/7

    AGAIN!!!!!
    As you can clearly see, your activities are not in my text. These activities have no bearing on this discussion. The topic has always been about the fishing method, and whether it is consistent with the intent of the law and included in the legislatures definition of "fishing" in F.S. 790.25 (3) (h).




    KISS

    Sounds like we are done flogging the horse,

    Thanks
    “We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” Ayn Rand

    "free people ought...to be armed." In so doing we grasp the larger lesson that the ability to defend ourselves is part and parcel to our freedom. George Washington , January 7, 1790

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2OLD2W8 View Post
    Nice try, talk about going off on a tangent. There you go again!!! Why are you hung hung up on activities I will not be participating in? Why do you keep interjecting them into the conversation????

    My first post was,,,,,


    AGAIN!!!!!
    As you can clearly see, your activities are not in my text. These activities have no bearing on this discussion. The topic has always been about the fishing method, and whether it is consistent with the intent of the law and included in the legislatures definition of "fishing" in F.S. 790.25 (3) (h).


    KISS

    Sounds like we are done flogging the horse,

    Thanks
    You're the one that introduced the topic with the apparent intent to discuss 'quasi-legal' methods of circumventing the intent of the law so you can open carry 24/7!
    Last edited by notalawyer; 11-20-2013 at 03:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    You're the one that introduced the topic with the apparent intent to discuss 'quasi-legal' methods of circumventing the intent of the law so you can open carry 24/7!
    I stayed on topic, you strayed.

    Good Day
    “We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” Ayn Rand

    "free people ought...to be armed." In so doing we grasp the larger lesson that the ability to defend ourselves is part and parcel to our freedom. George Washington , January 7, 1790

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2OLD2W8 View Post
    I stayed on topic, you strayed.

    Good Day
    You started a topic wishing to discuss ways of circumventing the law to allow one to open carry 24/7 and asked for comments. I provided logical legal commentary that you took exception to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    You started a topic wishing to discuss ways of circumventing the law to allow one to open carry 24/7 and asked for comments. I provided logical legal commentary that youtook exception to.
    circumventing the law
    Your point of contention, not mine......

    logical
    Logic is the art of going wrong with confidence & an instrument used for bolstering a prejudice.

    commentary that you took exception to
    True, I don't accept your point of view in this matter.

    Are you one of those right-fighters?

    I'm done...It has been interesting to say the least,,,
    you can have the last word......
    Regards.
    “We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” Ayn Rand

    "free people ought...to be armed." In so doing we grasp the larger lesson that the ability to defend ourselves is part and parcel to our freedom. George Washington , January 7, 1790

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2OLD2W8 View Post
    Your point of contention, not mine......



    Logic is the art of going wrong with confidence & an instrument used for bolstering a prejudice.



    True, I don't accept your point of view in this matter.

    Are you one of those right-fighters?

    I'm done...It has been interesting to say the least,,,
    you can have the last word......
    Regards.
    True, I don't accept your point of view in this matter.
    You are, of course, free to make that mistake.


    Are you one of those right-fighters?
    What's a right-fighter? Never mind I looked it up. No, I'm just always right!
    Last edited by notalawyer; 11-20-2013 at 10:06 PM.

  20. #20
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    While Florida's prohibition on general open carry annoys me as much as the next guy, if you're going to do this, please be sure you have enough money to mount a credible defense, or talk with the fine folks at Florida Carry about being a test case in advance.

    You have to know, without any doubt, that even if you don't get arrested for several encounters, you're going to get arrested eventually if you, as you said, open carry 24/7 using this strategy. Unless you have a very mundane 24/7 existence you're going to be in the grocery store, a restaurant, etc. at some point, some hoplophobe is going to call the police, and you're going to say "oh, I understand the confusion, you are unaware that I'm fishing right now". Even if you can say it with a straight face, you're going to get arrested because the cop doesn't give a damn about your nuanced argument. It's not "a well settled matter of law" so you're going to have no recourse against him for false arrest or anything else. Even the "going to or from" exception is very iffy because once you stop to do something else, you're not really "going to or from" anymore (or so the cop will reasonably argue when he arrests you).

    Assuming you have a clean record, the time and money to fight the battle, a personal situation that can tolerate a criminal record if you lose, etc., your fight could be useful to everyone if you win and your case can be used as a vehicle to strike down the Florida carry ban.

    That said, before getting another iron in the fire, and before possibly causing yourself a whole lot of grief for no reason, why not wait and see how Norman v. Florida pans out and go from there?

    Again, if you want to do this, more power to you -- please just get a hold of Florida Carry first and see if they want to play too. If they tell you you're nuts and they don't even have any interest, you might want to take that under advisement as well.
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    I wouldn't advise it 2Old, but if you're going to do it, I'd do it soon. I see even more restrictions after the kourts are done with the Norman case, just like with Mackey.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  22. #22
    Regular Member 2OLD2W8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianB View Post
    While Florida's prohibition on general open carry annoys me as much as the next guy, if you're going to do this, please be sure you have enough money to mount a credible defense, or talk with the fine folks at Florida Carry about being a test case in advance.

    You have to know, without any doubt, that even if you don't get arrested for several encounters, you're going to get arrested eventually if you, as you said, open carry 24/7 using this strategy. Unless you have a very mundane 24/7 existence you're going to be in the grocery store, a restaurant, etc. at some point, some hoplophobe is going to call the police, and you're going to say "oh, I understand the confusion, you are unaware that I'm fishing right now". Even if you can say it with a straight face, you're going to get arrested because the cop doesn't give a damn about your nuanced argument. It's not "a well settled matter of law" so you're going to have no recourse against him for false arrest or anything else. Even the "going to or from" exception is very iffy because once you stop to do something else, you're not really "going to or from" anymore (or so the cop will reasonably argue when he arrests you).

    Assuming you have a clean record, the time and money to fight the battle, a personal situation that can tolerate a criminal record if you lose, etc., your fight could be useful to everyone if you win and your case can be used as a vehicle to strike down the Florida carry ban.

    That said, before getting another iron in the fire, and before possibly causing yourself a whole lot of grief for no reason, why not wait and see how Norman v. Florida pans out and go from there?

    Again, if you want to do this, more power to you -- please just get a hold of Florida Carry first and see if they want to play too. If they tell you you're nuts and they don't even have any interest, you might want to take that under advisement as well.
    Assuming you have a clean record, the time and money to fight the battle, a personal situation that can tolerate a criminal record if you lose, etc., your fight could be useful to everyone if you win and your case can be used as a vehicle to strike down the Florida carry ban.
    please just get a hold of Florida Carry first and see if they want to play too.
    I appreciate the heads-up and concern...The subject was brought up for discussions purposes only, not as a public announcement of my intended actions.

    I possess all of your prerequisites except the massive amount of money needed to battle this out in court. However, I am willing to assist as a test case for Florida carry, should they want to go down this road by my side and cover the costs associated with this matter.... I'll assist Florida Carry in any way I can to reclaim our open carry rights. They know how to contact me.

    My life if far from mundane... Sometimes, I wish for a mundane day or two each month.

    I do not utilize restaurants for my nourishment. Home prepared only...brown bagged or I use a cooler.... I'm sure the masses thank their Gods for restaurants, a true life sustaining safety net for some if not most nowadays.....

    I am aware of the limitations that exist while traveling to and from the activity of fishing. Planning for the expedition prevents self imposed stops while in route to or from fishing.

    If stopped in route for "whatever reason", detained and questioned the answer is always the same....I am traveling (to or from) where I fish. Is that not a true legal defense for open carry? Fishing is not a daylight only sport.......
    “We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” Ayn Rand

    "free people ought...to be armed." In so doing we grasp the larger lesson that the ability to defend ourselves is part and parcel to our freedom. George Washington , January 7, 1790

  23. #23
    Regular Member ADulay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2OLD2W8 View Post
    If stopped in route for "whatever reason", detained and questioned the answer is always the same....I am traveling (to or from) where I fish. Is that not a true legal defense for open carry? Fishing is not a daylight only sport.......
    Just as a point of reference, of the 4 (or 5) times I've been stopped for open carry on the motorcycle, 2 of them have been at night and in both cases the result was the same. I explained I was coming back from fishing (a known spot north of me) and was headed home.

    Nothing fancy. No lies. And in both cases it was "Have a nice day" and I rode away still open carrying.

    If it wasn't for the blinding lights while standing in front of the LEO car (cameras and all that) it would be just like a daytime stop!

    I am one of those lucky people who can fish, shoot and ride the motorcycle every single day that I choose.

    45 years of work allows you that luxury in retirement!

    AD (daily open carry for over three years now)
    NRA Life - AMA Life - ABATE Life
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    IDPA, ICORE and USPSA carry gun shooter - Glock Armorer
    NRA Certified Instructor

  24. #24
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADulay View Post
    Just as a point of reference, of the 4 (or 5) times I've been stopped for open carry on the motorcycle, 2 of them have been at night and in both cases the result was the same. I explained I was coming back from fishing (a known spot north of me) and was headed home.

    Nothing fancy. No lies. And in both cases it was "Have a nice day" and I rode away still open carrying.

    If it wasn't for the blinding lights while standing in front of the LEO car (cameras and all that) it would be just like a daytime stop!

    I am one of those lucky people who can fish, shoot and ride the motorcycle every single day that I choose.

    45 years of work allows you that luxury in retirement!

    AD (daily open carry for over three years now)
    That's somewhat surprising and heartening to me Adulay. Not 1/10th as surprised as I'd be if the Norman case recognized the OC ban as unconstitutional , but it's weird that every time they knew the law. I'm sure you're a well groomed guy driving a nice motorcycle carrying a high quality pistol, so they may think you're off duty, but the fact that they're ok with your explanation is not what I expected, at least if this was 5 different cops.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    That's somewhat surprising and heartening to me Adulay. Not 1/10th as surprised as I'd be if the Norman case recognized the OC ban as unconstitutional , but it's weird that every time they knew the law. I'm sure you're a well groomed guy driving a nice motorcycle carrying a high quality pistol, so they may think you're off duty, but the fact that they're ok with your explanation is not what I expected, at least if this was 5 different cops.
    Whether they are OK with it or not is immaterial. AD obviously provides sufficient, logical facts to dispel any possible probable cause a LEO may have to arrest him, therefore any arrest would be unlawful.
    Last edited by notalawyer; 11-21-2013 at 06:43 PM.

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