Open carry while using trot line or set line methods?

77zach · Nov 20, 2013

I wouldn't advise it 2Old, but if you're going to do it, I'd do it soon. I see even more restrictions after the kourts are done with the Norman case, just like with Mackey.

2OLD2W8 · Nov 21, 2013

BrianB said:
While Florida's prohibition on general open carry annoys me as much as the next guy, if you're going to do this, please be sure you have enough money to mount a credible defense, or talk with the fine folks at Florida Carry about being a test case in advance.

You have to know, without any doubt, that even if you don't get arrested for several encounters, you're going to get arrested eventually if you, as you said, open carry 24/7 using this strategy. Unless you have a very mundane 24/7 existence you're going to be in the grocery store, a restaurant, etc. at some point, some hoplophobe is going to call the police, and you're going to say "oh, I understand the confusion, you are unaware that I'm fishing right now". Even if you can say it with a straight face, you're going to get arrested because the cop doesn't give a damn about your nuanced argument. It's not "a well settled matter of law" so you're going to have no recourse against him for false arrest or anything else. Even the "going to or from" exception is very iffy because once you stop to do something else, you're not really "going to or from" anymore (or so the cop will reasonably argue when he arrests you).

Assuming you have a clean record, the time and money to fight the battle, a personal situation that can tolerate a criminal record if you lose, etc., your fight could be useful to everyone if you win and your case can be used as a vehicle to strike down the Florida carry ban.

That said, before getting another iron in the fire, and before possibly causing yourself a whole lot of grief for no reason, why not wait and see how Norman v. Florida pans out and go from there?

Again, if you want to do this, more power to you -- please just get a hold of Florida Carry first and see if they want to play too. If they tell you you're nuts and they don't even have any interest, you might want to take that under advisement as well.

Assuming you have a clean record, the time and money to fight the battle, a personal situation that can tolerate a criminal record if you lose, etc., your fight could be useful to everyone if you win and your case can be used as a vehicle to strike down the Florida carry ban.

please just get a hold of Florida Carry first and see if they want to play too.

I appreciate the heads-up and concern...The subject was brought up for discussions purposes only, not as a public announcement of my intended actions.

I possess all of your prerequisites except the massive amount of money needed to battle this out in court. However, I am willing to assist as a test case for Florida carry, should they want to go down this road by my side and cover the costs associated with this matter.... I'll assist Florida Carry in any way I can to reclaim our open carry rights. They know how to contact me.

My life if far from mundane... Sometimes, I wish for a mundane day or two each month.

I do not utilize restaurants for my nourishment. Home prepared only...brown bagged or I use a cooler.... I'm sure the masses thank their Gods for restaurants, a true life sustaining safety net for some if not most nowadays.....

I am aware of the limitations that exist while traveling to and from the activity of fishing. Planning for the expedition prevents self imposed stops while in route to or from fishing.

If stopped in route for "whatever reason", detained and questioned the answer is always the same....I am traveling (to or from) where I fish. Is that not a true legal defense for open carry? Fishing is not a daylight only sport.......

ADulay · Nov 21, 2013

2OLD2W8 said:
If stopped in route for "whatever reason", detained and questioned the answer is always the same....I am traveling (to or from) where I fish. Is that not a true legal defense for open carry? Fishing is not a daylight only sport.......

Just as a point of reference, of the 4 (or 5) times I've been stopped for open carry on the motorcycle, 2 of them have been at night and in both cases the result was the same. I explained I was coming back from fishing (a known spot north of me) and was headed home.

Nothing fancy. No lies. And in both cases it was "Have a nice day" and I rode away still open carrying.

If it wasn't for the blinding lights while standing in front of the LEO car (cameras and all that) it would be just like a daytime stop!

I am one of those lucky people who can fish, shoot and ride the motorcycle every single day that I choose.

45 years of work allows you that luxury in retirement!

AD (daily open carry for over three years now)

77zach · Nov 21, 2013

ADulay said:
Just as a point of reference, of the 4 (or 5) times I've been stopped for open carry on the motorcycle, 2 of them have been at night and in both cases the result was the same. I explained I was coming back from fishing (a known spot north of me) and was headed home.

Nothing fancy. No lies. And in both cases it was "Have a nice day" and I rode away still open carrying.

If it wasn't for the blinding lights while standing in front of the LEO car (cameras and all that) it would be just like a daytime stop!

I am one of those lucky people who can fish, shoot and ride the motorcycle every single day that I choose.

45 years of work allows you that luxury in retirement!

AD (daily open carry for over three years now)

That's somewhat surprising and heartening to me Adulay. Not 1/10th as surprised as I'd be if the Norman case recognized the OC ban as unconstitutional , but it's weird that every time they knew the law. I'm sure you're a well groomed guy driving a nice motorcycle carrying a high quality pistol, so they may think you're off duty, but the fact that they're ok with your explanation is not what I expected, at least if this was 5 different cops.

notalawyer · Nov 21, 2013

77zach said:
That's somewhat surprising and heartening to me Adulay. Not 1/10th as surprised as I'd be if the Norman case recognized the OC ban as unconstitutional , but it's weird that every time they knew the law. I'm sure you're a well groomed guy driving a nice motorcycle carrying a high quality pistol, so they may think you're off duty, but the fact that they're ok with your explanation is not what I expected, at least if this was 5 different cops.

Whether they are OK with it or not is immaterial. AD obviously provides sufficient, logical facts to dispel any possible probable cause a LEO may have to arrest him, therefore any arrest would be unlawful.

77zach · Nov 21, 2013

notalawyer said:
Whether they are OK with it or not is immaterial. AD obviously provides sufficient, logical facts to dispel any possible probable cause a LEO may have to arrest him, therefore any arrest would be unlawful.

Lol, tell that to some of OCer's in Texas. Perusing other state forums, you'll find unlawful detentions of OCers even in places where no permit is required, such as Virginia, or Vermont, like the thread I started in the Vt forum, "man handcuffed for open carry" in a permitless state. I agree with you that what you described is how it should be though.

ADulay · Nov 21, 2013

I don't want to get into a thread on what not to say to an officer who has just pulled over a "man with a gun on a motorcycle" but for a lot of those bizarre traffic stops in other areas, I have to believe that there is more to the story than what we see.

First off, when you get stopped or asked why you're carrying a sidearm in public, the correct answer is not "Because it's my friggin' right to do this".

Being civil works both ways. The officer is doing his job and has every right to be on "high alert" as openly carried handguns are not a normal occurance anywhere around here, or most of the state for that matter.

If you decide to become confrontational, it can only go downhill from where you started.

Perhaps I've been extremely lucky in that most of the officers actually knew of the "hunting, fishing, camping" thing and only one had to be shown where the "shooting" part of the statute was. He even admitted that he had learned something and we shook hands and I drove away, open carrying.

Treat the stop as a normal part of being on the "tip of the spear" for open carry. Lots of "normal citizens" have seen me open carry over the years all over the state and so far only three (that I'm aware of) have actually called the local PD to report something. Who knows how many calls are intercepted and taken care of by a dispatcher who has a clue as to what is happening out on the street.

So, just be aware that although you and I know that we're 100% legal, the guy with the lights on his car needs to confirm for himself that you are legitimate and not a threat to all of mankind because you have a Glock and a grouper.

Actually I can understand the stops because my fishing (and shooting) gear is all inside my saddlebags so there's no outside reference of what I'm doing other than riding a motorcycle with a Bianchi 59 holster filled on my right side. Once they either see the fishing rig or shooting equipment, it's pretty much obvious what the story is. For me the shooting part is the easiest to confirm as I really do shoot "many" times a week and sometimes twice a day.

AD (open carry advocate and full time practitioner)

77zach · Nov 22, 2013

ADulay said:
I don't want to get into a thread on what not to say to an officer who has just pulled over a "man with a gun on a motorcycle" but for a lot of those bizarre traffic stops in other areas, I have to believe that there is more to the story than what we see.

First off, when you get stopped or asked why you're carrying a sidearm in public, the correct answer is not "Because it's my friggin' right to do this".

Being civil works both ways. The officer is doing his job and has every right to be on "high alert" as openly carried handguns are not a normal occurance anywhere around here, or most of the state for that matter.

If you decide to become confrontational, it can only go downhill from where you started.

Perhaps I've been extremely lucky in that most of the officers actually knew of the "hunting, fishing, camping" thing and only one had to be shown where the "shooting" part of the statute was. He even admitted that he had learned something and we shook hands and I drove away, open carrying.

Treat the stop as a normal part of being on the "tip of the spear" for open carry. Lots of "normal citizens" have seen me open carry over the years all over the state and so far only three (that I'm aware of) have actually called the local PD to report something. Who knows how many calls are intercepted and taken care of by a dispatcher who has a clue as to what is happening out on the street.

So, just be aware that although you and I know that we're 100% legal, the guy with the lights on his car needs to confirm for himself that you are legitimate and not a threat to all of mankind because you have a Glock and a grouper.

Actually I can understand the stops because my fishing (and shooting) gear is all inside my saddlebags so there's no outside reference of what I'm doing other than riding a motorcycle with a Bianchi 59 holster filled on my right side. Once they either see the fishing rig or shooting equipment, it's pretty much obvious what the story is. For me the shooting part is the easiest to confirm as I really do shoot "many" times a week and sometimes twice a day.

AD (open carry advocate and full time practitioner)

I agree 100%, that is how I would deal with it if I OCed in Florida because of our situation. I don't have a motorcycle or fish so I essentially don't do it ever. It may not be how I would deal with an encounter in a state that recognized our rights, it would depend on the cop's attitude. I have open carried extensively over years of time spent in Virginia and I've never had any encounters. Plenty of cops saw, but nothing was ever said. I had a near encounter in Georgia at a Chik-fil-A where some GSP were eating and I knew they were discussing me but I left and they never approached.

It's good to know they're well versed in and obedient to the law in your area. Has it been city police, sheriff, or highway patrol?

BrianB · Nov 22, 2013

AD, all of your Florida open carry descriptions (that I have seen) have been while on your motorcycle. What about when you go to the grocery store, a movie, a restaurant, etc.? You say "full time practitioner" so I assume that means you carry even when doing things that might be hard to argue are part of "going to or from". Any LE experiences under those circumstances?

notalawyer · Nov 22, 2013

BrianB said:
AD, all of your Florida open carry descriptions (that I have seen) have been while on your motorcycle. What about when you go to the grocery store, a movie, a restaurant, etc.? You say "full time practitioner" so I assume that means you carry even when doing things that might be hard to argue are part of "going to or from". Any LE experiences under those circumstances?

I hate to answer for him, but I've read most of his posts on the topic.

He follows the law. If he stops somewhere then he properly conceals.

2OLD2W8 · Nov 22, 2013

ADulay said:
I don't want to get into a thread on what not to say to an officer who has just pulled over a "man with a gun on a motorcycle" but for a lot of those bizarre traffic stops in other areas, I have to believe that there is more to the story than what we see.

First off, when you get stopped or asked why you're carrying a sidearm in public, the correct answer is not "Because it's my friggin' right to do this".

Being civil works both ways. The officer is doing his job and has every right to be on "high alert" as openly carried handguns are not a normal occurance anywhere around here, or most of the state for that matter.

If you decide to become confrontational, it can only go downhill from where you started.

Perhaps I've been extremely lucky in that most of the officers actually knew of the "hunting, fishing, camping" thing and only one had to be shown where the "shooting" part of the statute was. He even admitted that he had learned something and we shook hands and I drove away, open carrying.

Treat the stop as a normal part of being on the "tip of the spear" for open carry. Lots of "normal citizens" have seen me open carry over the years all over the state and so far only three (that I'm aware of) have actually called the local PD to report something. Who knows how many calls are intercepted and taken care of by a dispatcher who has a clue as to what is happening out on the street.

So, just be aware that although you and I know that we're 100% legal, the guy with the lights on his car needs to confirm for himself that you are legitimate and not a threat to all of mankind because you have a Glock and a grouper.

Actually I can understand the stops because my fishing (and shooting) gear is all inside my saddlebags so there's no outside reference of what I'm doing other than riding a motorcycle with a Bianchi 59 holster filled on my right side. Once they either see the fishing rig or shooting equipment, it's pretty much obvious what the story is. For me the shooting part is the easiest to confirm as I really do shoot "many" times a week and sometimes twice a day.

AD (open carry advocate and full time practitioner)

Ad, a couple of question for you sir. One is serious the others are not.......

Were you ever disarmed during any of your LE stops?

During the stops and after the LEO's were informed of the stored (hidden, for the suspicious minded) fishing pole did any of them challenge your choice of fishing gear? Did any of the officers suspect that you might be twisting and stretching the law in your desire to open carry as a

full time practitioner

and that your methods could be construed as having a hidden agenda/ LOL

Me thinks not.

I appreciate your continued support and practice of open carry!!!!!!

notalawyer · Nov 22, 2013

2OLD2W8 said:
Ad, a couple of question for you sir. One is serious the others are not.......

Were you ever disarmed during any of your LE stops?

During the stops and after the LEO's were informed of the stored (hidden, for the suspicious minded) fishing pole did any of them challenge your choice of fishing gear? Did any of the officers suspect that you might be twisting and stretching the law in your desire to open carry as a and that your methods could be construed as having a hidden agenda/ LOL Me thinks not.

I appreciate your continued support and practice of open carry!!!!!!

I'll answer the non-serious question for him.

The cops, who we all know monitor internet forums and have access to NSA data, know the folks that are out legitimately Open Carrying and those that have 'publicly' concocted not-so-clever methods to allow them to Open Carry 24/7 in contradiction to the law.

ADulay · Nov 22, 2013

2OLD2W8 said:
Ad, a couple of question for you sir. One is serious the others are not.......

Were you ever disarmed during any of your LE stops?

During the stops and after the LEO's were informed of the stored (hidden, for the suspicious minded) fishing pole did any of them challenge your choice of fishing gear? Did any of the officers suspect that you might be twisting and stretching the law in your desire to open carry as a and that your methods could be construed as having a hidden agenda/ LOL Me thinks not.

I appreciate your continued support and practice of open carry!!!!!!

I'll answer all of the recent questions with one reply here.

First off, when you get off the bike to go to Wal-mart and buy something, I throw on a cover garment. Do my shopping and when I come back out, I'm headed back to the fishing point or the range so the garment comes off and I'm legal again. Obviously we're not fishing or camping at the Mall, right?

I have never been disarmed during a stop. I've have been told to just leave the sidearm in the holster but that's about it.

In fact, I've only had my driver's license looked at once! Usually it's just a few questions, a few answers and I'm on my way.

I have recently had one local LEO ask me "why should I believe you when you say your coming home from fishing?".

Well, the answer was the time of night, the time the fishing pier closed, my distance from same and if he really wanted to pursue it, he could feel the line and see that it's probably still wet. Only one guy asked that type of question though but he was from a small town and it was apparently a slow night.

Seriously though, if you decide to do something like this, it does take a bit of preparation and planning and you need to be VERY comfortable with open carry and convinced that you are legal to be doing what you do. Many people will never open carry, and I have no problem with that. It's really not for everyone and I do understand the risks that I may be taking, but I also practice some serious situational awareness.

I believe I present myself in a nice and unthreatening manner. I make no demands on anyone and when people ask me about it, I really go out of my way to answer their questions and attempt to show that a person with a gun is not a deranged killer looking for a box of kittens to stomp on!

My normal dress is clean pants, golf shirt, Bianchi holster and baseball cap. (with the bill forward, of course)

One of my best encounters was when I was stopped on the interstate by a Florida Trooper. I pulled over, he got out and walked up to me (my hands clearly in view) and asked where I was going. I said to the range (Exit 195 on I-75). He asked what I had in the saddle bags. I said "a box of guns".

He didn't know what to say and didn't even look! Just kind of half smiled, looked sideways a bit and then said "Have a nice day" and motioned for me to leave before he turned and went back to the car.

You just never really know how each stop will go.

Oh yeah, on the "hidden agenda" thing. Well, I don't have a hidden agenda, I have an open agenda! I want people to get used to seeing a sidearm and realize that it's just not a big deal.

What scares me out on the road? 16 year old kids texting their friends at 85 mph as they blast past me!!

AD

BrianB · Nov 23, 2013

ADulay said:
What scares me out on the road? 16 year old kids texting their friends at 85 mph as they blast past me!!

AD

+1 from a fellow motorcyclist.

I'd like to add "and soccer moms in SUV's talking on the phone".

2OLD2W8 · Nov 23, 2013

ADulay said:
I'll answer all of the recent questions with one reply here.

First off, when you get off the bike to go to Wal-mart and buy something, I throw on a cover garment. Do my shopping and when I come back out, I'm headed back to the fishing point or the range so the garment comes off and I'm legal again. Obviously we're not fishing or camping at the Mall, right?

I have never been disarmed during a stop. I've have been told to just leave the sidearm in the holster but that's about it.

In fact, I've only had my driver's license looked at once! Usually it's just a few questions, a few answers and I'm on my way.

I have recently had one local LEO ask me "why should I believe you when you say your coming home from fishing?".

Well, the answer was the time of night, the time the fishing pier closed, my distance from same and if he really wanted to pursue it, he could feel the line and see that it's probably still wet. Only one guy asked that type of question though but he was from a small town and it was apparently a slow night.

Seriously though, if you decide to do something like this, it does take a bit of preparation and planning and you need to be VERY comfortable with open carry and convinced that you are legal to be doing what you do. Many people will never open carry, and I have no problem with that. It's really not for everyone and I do understand the risks that I may be taking, but I also practice some serious situational awareness.

I believe I present myself in a nice and unthreatening manner. I make no demands on anyone and when people ask me about it, I really go out of my way to answer their questions and attempt to show that a person with a gun is not a deranged killer looking for a box of kittens to stomp on!

My normal dress is clean pants, golf shirt, Bianchi holster and baseball cap. (with the bill forward, of course)

One of my best encounters was when I was stopped on the interstate by a Florida Trooper. I pulled over, he got out and walked up to me (my hands clearly in view) and asked where I was going. I said to the range (Exit 195 on I-75). He asked what I had in the saddle bags. I said "a box of guns".

He didn't know what to say and didn't even look! Just kind of half smiled, looked sideways a bit and then said "Have a nice day" and motioned for me to leave before he turned and went back to the car.

You just never really know how each stop will go.

Oh yeah, on the "hidden agenda" thing. Well, I don't have a hidden agenda, I have an open agenda! I want people to get used to seeing a sidearm and realize that it's just not a big deal.

What scares me out on the road? 16 year old kids texting their friends at 85 mph as they blast past me!!

AD

AD, .....

Motorcycles vs the caged texter.....

:cuss::banghead:

I have not experienced any on the road LEO stops.....However, I have been approached and questioned once while engaging in the activity. The encounter was over quickly, no big deal...responding to a concerned citizens complaint.

I get your "hidden agenda" answer also and I concur.... Thanks!!!

Granted, it would be easy to use "the fishing line is wet" fact as a defense to "I am coming back from fishing..".

How about going to the legal fishing expedition and you get stopped and questioned about the firearm? After the greetings and niceties are over. Shouldn't the statement "I am on the way to my fishing spot", always be the only defense necessary to justify the open carry....

Scenario....I have a friend on the East coast that owns a charter fishing vessel. We have made plans and scheduled the fishing trip,, The day arrives, I takeoff on the motorcycle with the firearm in full view. I have 80 plus miles to cover before reaching the coast......I am stopped in route and questioned about the firearm.
I do not have any deep sea fishing gear with me. I tell the LEO, I am going fishing.... Will I be arrested or am I given the benefit of doubt? I wonder if this scenario was brought up during the legislature's discussion of F.S. 790.25 (3) (h). Test case?????????

ADulay · Nov 23, 2013

2OLD2W8 said:
I have a friend on the East coast that owns a charter fishing vessel. We have made plans and scheduled the fishing trip,, The day arrives, I takeoff on the motorcycle with the firearm in full view. I have 80 plus miles to cover before reaching the coast......I am stopped in route and questioned about the firearm.
I do not have any deep sea fishing gear with me. I tell the LEO, I am going fishing.... Will I be arrested or am I given the benefit of doubt? I wonder if this scenario was brought up during the legislature's discussion of F.S. 790.25 (3) (h). Test case?????????

2Old,

Well, if it were me in that situation, I'd have at a minimum, an email from my buddy that we're going deep sea fishing that day and probably have a phone number that they could call to confirm it.

Like I mentioned previously. The farther out from the middle of the safety zone you go, the more important it becomes to be able to document what you say.

When I'm just fishing and shooting locally, just telling the officer that I'm headed out to Zemel for some testing is fine.

If I was heading to Orlando (3 hours away) then I usually have the Google directions to the range on the top of my tank bag and in the case of the GSSF shoots (in St.Pete and Orlando) I also have my entry receipt. That makes me legitimately going to or coming from the events.

Pretty much anything outside of a three county area, I have some sort of back up documentation to confirm what I'm doing.

AD

2OLD2W8 · Nov 23, 2013

ADulay said:
2Old,

Well, if it were me in that situation, I'd have at a minimum, an email from my buddy that we're going deep sea fishing that day and probably have a phone number that they could call to confirm it.

Like I mentioned previously. The farther out from the middle of the safety zone you go, the more important it becomes to be able to document what you say.

When I'm just fishing and shooting locally, just telling the officer that I'm headed out to Zemel for some testing is fine.

If I was heading to Orlando (3 hours away) then I usually have the Google directions to the range on the top of my tank bag and in the case of the GSSF shoots (in St.Pete and Orlando) I also have my entry receipt. That makes me legitimately going to or coming from the events.

Pretty much anything outside of a three county area, I have some sort of back up documentation to confirm what I'm doing.

AD

Yes, that would be one way of trying to comply ,,,,roll the dice,you never know how the LEO will respond??? Sounds like I need to incorporate some target practice into my daily routine to increase my opportunities and odds in the safety zone!!!

AD, What are your thoughts on these 2 speculative scenarios?

If a person has started out on fishing or target shooting expedition and for what ever reason changes their mind or is forced to cancel the expedition and head back to their starting point. Would they be guilty of violating the law by open carrying a firearm with out engaging in the activity??

What if........A person who owns a home on rural property which contains a body of water within the property boundaries........... while on the way home from any daily activity, the owner makes the mental decision to go fishing or target shooting when they reach their homestead and proceeds to open carry in route.. Once they arrive home are they required to complete the activity to remain on the right side of the law?

What a wonderful problem to have....

************************************************************************
For the purists, concerned with "legislative intent" of this asinine law...........................
When the person arrives at their rural home, technically, I guess they would have to fire at least one round at a target to be legal !!!! In a safe manner of course.

or toss a line in the water and reel it back in........(no fishing license needed). Not doing so makes them a scofflaw!

On the other hand, if the property owner doesn't give a hoot about the technical aspect of making sure they haven't broken the law and they aren't the least bit concerned about the possibility they have been followed by the law and might be under government surveillance or investigation, they would probably just open and enter the gated property, close the gate and proceed to ignore the nonsense that exists outside the confines of their domain in the realm of the sheeple!!!!!!!!! :banana: Where's my remote, grab me a beer honey....Ahhh home sweet home.......

Oh the possibilities!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

P.S. From one vet to another.......AD, thank you sir, for you service and sacrifice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ADulay · Nov 23, 2013

2OLD2W8 said:
AD, What are your thoughts on these 2 speculative scenarios?

If a person has started out on fishing or target shooting expedition and for what ever reason changes their mind or is forced to cancel the expedition and head back to their starting point. Would they be guilty of violating the law by open carrying a firearm with out engaging in the activity??

Toss a cover garment on when you decide to turn around and there's no need to find out if you're legal or not.

2OLD2W8 said:
What if........A person who owns a home on rural property which contains a body of water within the property boundaries........... while on the way home from any daily activity, the owner makes the mental decision to go fishing or target shooting when they reach their homestead and proceeds to open carry in route.. Once they arrive home are they required to complete the activity to remain on the right side of the law?

I'm thinking there might be some problem with the "expedition" part of this as you're just at home.

I've got a very nice canal and a very large boat sitting right behind the house. I don't think I can say "I'm going fishing" every time I head home.

AD

2OLD2W8 · Nov 24, 2013

ADulay said:
Toss a cover garment on when you decide to turn around and there's no need to find out if you're legal or not.

I'm thinking there might be some problem with the "expedition" part of this as you're just at home.

I've got a very nice canal and a very large boat sitting right behind the house. I don't think I can say "I'm going fishing" every time I head home.

AD

I read the statute language "going to or returning from" to mean either one or the other which would allow the travel to my home as an exception because I will not be returning to where I started.. It's important to note that it does not read "going to and returning from", which would indicate both are necessary. Based on the language AD, you should be able to say

"I'm going fishing" every time I head home.

I wonder what definition of expedition the legislature was invoking at the time of the Yays & Nays. I prefer the definition "a short trip made for a particular purpose", Maybe I can find some archived legislative data regarding the debated language of the law.

notalawyer · Nov 24, 2013

2OLD2W8 said:
I read the statute language "going to or returning from" to mean either one or the other which would allow the travel to my home as an exception because I will not be returning to where I started.. It's important to note that it does not read "going to and returning from", which would indicate both are necessary. Based on the language AD, you should be able to say

I wonder what definition of expedition the legislature was invoking at the time of the Yays & Nays. I prefer the definition "a short trip made for a particular purpose", Maybe I can find some archived legislative data regarding the debated language of the law.

'Expedition' only applies to the 'hunting' part of the statute.

Open carry while using trot line or set line methods?

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