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Open carry while using trot line or set line methods?

Ironside

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
103
Location
Ocoee, Florida
It would be my hope that "expedition" would be found to include deminimise stops for food, supplies, fuel or funds which would remove the stigma of stopping while OC.

I also believe that expedition applies to all of the "fishing camping and lawful hunting".

Maybe we need a real lawyer to enlighten us.

AD, it looks like we may have started a real debate on this ...

Ironside
 

ADulay

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
512
Location
Punta Gorda, Florida, USA
It would be my hope that "expedition" would be found to include deminimise stops for food, supplies, fuel or funds which would remove the stigma of stopping while OC.

I also believe that expedition applies to all of the "fishing camping and lawful hunting".

Maybe we need a real lawyer to enlighten us.

AD, it looks like we may have started a real debate on this ...

Ironside

Ironside,

Yes, a clear definition of what an "expedition" is from the legislature would solve quite a few of "my" problems while out on the road for sure!

AD
 

ixtow

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
5,038
Location
Suwannee County, FL
In many locations trotlines are not permitted on weekends or after 9PM or daylight hours only, etc.

Pardon my necroposting but I've spent months trying to find any corroboration on this, and I can't find it. Non-game fish can be taken with setlines. FMAs might have their own rules, but haven't found even one word in any FMA rules about setlines. Many have bag limits on channel cat, usually 6. But I haven't fouind one word, anywhere, about any kind of regulation on setlines.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying I can't find it if it's there. Please rid me of my ignorance. I've been looking ever since I read this post and I've turned up absolutely zero.

Google shows me only two relveant results

1) this post
2) http://myfwc.com/fishing/freshwater/regulations/taking-fish/

Granted, I only look at FMAs in Northcenrtral, Northeast and Northwest regions. The rest of Floriduh pretty much sucks and I don't go there. Although, I recently got a fraudulent unpaid toll notice for a place I've never been with a vehicle that had no wheels or carburetor at the time they took the obviously fake picture of someone else with a different vehicle...

I'm not trying to use it as an excuse to OC everywhere. I like to disappear into the woods for months at a time and setline catfishing is a great way to multitask, especially since hunting of any kind at all is banned 7 months out of the year on most public lands.
 
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ixtow

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Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
5,038
Location
Suwannee County, FL
Answered my own question. It's almost as if they're deliberately trying to keep the information from being found, but I found it.

http://florida.eregulations.us/rule/68a-23.004

It's really not as complicated as it initially seems. You only have to pay attention to the places you actually are, or are plannning to go.

As with virtually all laws, it's nonsensically overdone and is bluntly arbitrary; but no moreso than any other bullsh!t law. By the time you've read it enough times for it to begin to make sense, you'll probably have inadvertantly memorized it...

You'll also have to figure out any Fish Management Areas' specific rules. But, these are easy to find, and again, you only have to pay attention to the ones you're in or planning to go to...

So, bottom line, you'll never find this info unless you already know where to look. It's a secret booby trap The State sets to attack citizens. It's stupid, arbitrary, capricious, complicated, etc... But no moreso than any other law of this criminal government, so the charactarization of being really hard to figure out isn't really true, since it's no better or worse than any other dirty law. If you can read through Section 790 and figure out about 20% of it's meaning, then this is actually pretty easy.

If this could serve the OP in any useful way... I dunno. Kinda doubt it. Since I'm camping when I'm fishing, it would and does apply to me. I don't try to use it as an excuse to OC everywhere...
 
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ixtow

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Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
5,038
Location
Suwannee County, FL
Yes, that would be one way of trying to comply ,,,,roll the dice,you never know how the LEO will respond??? Sounds like I need to incorporate some target practice into my daily routine to increase my opportunities and odds in the safety zone!!!
If a person has started out on fishing or target shooting expedition and for what ever reason changes their mind or is forced to cancel the expedition and head back to their starting point. Would they be guilty of violating the law by open carrying a firearm with out engaging in the activity??
Always wondered about this one.

What if your motorcycle breaks down? It's never happened to me becasue I ride a Honda, but I suppose someone with a Harley might try to go fishing and not make it... ;-)

Waht if you're OCing something that can't be concealed for the very reason that you want to OC something useful, and useful guns can only be concealed by people with "The Open Carry Body Type."

What if........A person who owns a home on rural property which contains a body of water within the property boundaries........... while on the way home from any daily activity, the owner makes the mental decision to go fishing or target shooting when they reach their homestead and proceeds to open carry in route.. Once they arrive home are they required to complete the activity to remain on the right side of the law?
I live across the road from the Twin Rivers State Forest. Supposedly I can fish there. I could easily be on the way to go fishing any time I'm heading back from town. Stop at Anderson Spring, wet the line for 5 minutes, then go home... OC to and then OC from...

But, the Fish and Wildlife Commission and the Florida Forest Service both say no guns no matter what. Forget the Osceola National Forest, too. All public lands; no guns, no guns, no guns. 790.25 is useless.
 
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ADulay

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
512
Location
Punta Gorda, Florida, USA
I live across the road from the Twin Rivers State Forest. Supposedly I can fish there. I could easily be on the way to go fishing any time I'm heading back from town. Stop at Anderson Spring, wet the line for 5 minutes, then go home... OC to and then OC from...

But, the Fish and Wildlife Commission and the Florida Forest Service both say no guns no matter what. Forget the Osceola National Forest, too. All public lands; no guns, no guns, no guns. 790.25 is useless.

Hmm, I just looked up the Twin Rivers WMA and the only thing I can see that is prohibited is unleashed dogs and fully automatic weapons for hunting.

They did specifically state that they abide by all Florida Statutes.

AD
 
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ADulay

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
512
Location
Punta Gorda, Florida, USA
Always wondered about this one.

What if your motorcycle breaks down?

Waht if you're OCing something that can't be concealed for the very reason that you want to OC something useful, and useful guns can only be concealed by people with "The Open Carry Body Type."

Well, you could maybe think about throwing some old fishing shirt in one of those saddlebags and should the need arise where you need to cover up that 6" Ruger on your hip, you can do so and walk into the Honda dealer to pick up whatever part you need to fix the bike.

Or into Wal-Mart for some more beef jerky to make it until lunch.

Open carry is not rocket science. Plan ahead just a little bit and you won't be caught off guard.

AD
 

ixtow

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Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
5,038
Location
Suwannee County, FL
Hmm, I just looked up the Twin Rivers WMA and the only thing I can see that is prohibited is unleashed dogs and fully automatic weapons for hunting.

They did specifically state that they abide by all Florida Statutes.
AD
Yes, but it it's a cooperative site. The Florida Forest Service is the primary manager and they say hell no, and what they say trumps the FWC since the FFS is primary manager.

http://myfwc.com/viewing/recreation/wmas/cooperative/twin-rivers/

See where it says "Managed in Cooperation With" at the top of the page?

Those organizations also have a say in it. You can't jsut check one source and think you have your answer. The FWC may say it's perfectly fine, but if the FFS or SRWMD see you OCing, you're screwed.

the same thing goes for the Osceola National Forest. It may be an FL FWC WMA, but the Feds will still screw you if they see you OCing there. I linked the document on another thread.
 
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ixtow

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
5,038
Location
Suwannee County, FL
Hmm, I just looked up the Twin Rivers WMA and the only thing I can see that is prohibited is unleashed dogs and fully automatic weapons for hunting.

They did specifically state that they abide by all Florida Statutes.

AD

The SRWMD says that camping is forbidden, but then they have a downloadable PDF fee schedule for camping fees... $15/night to fall over in the dirt. But, it's also illegal, so, uh...

Can't trust any of the information I find as it is contradicted. One agency says yes, 4 others say no, some say yes and no in the same sentence.

Then there are gems like this: "Hunting permitted only where permitted." <-- How useful is this!? I won't be hunting, but how does this help someone who would like to?

http://myfwc.com/viewing/recreation/wmas/ <-- describes the Cooperative situation. Each Cooperative WMA has the other agencies listed at the top of it's page. None of them acknowledge or respect 790.25.
 
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ADulay

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
512
Location
Punta Gorda, Florida, USA
Well then I must be the luckiest guy in the world as I've been stopped twice in two different WMA's and nothing ever became of it.

We talked guns, where I was fishing and that was it.

Actually one time I was just leaving from some range time when stopped while OC.

Not a problem.

I still OC on a daily basis with no problems at all.

I do not consider a stop and check a real problem. Show your ID and continue to have a nice day. When you're the only guy with an OC sidearm at a campsite, a few of the sheep MAY take notice and cell phone the nearest Ranger station. Still not a problem, at least for me.

AD
 

notalawyer

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2012
Messages
1,061
Location
Florida
Well then I must be the luckiest guy in the world as I've been stopped twice in two different WMA's and nothing ever became of it.

We talked guns, where I was fishing and that was it.

Actually one time I was just leaving from some range time when stopped while OC.

Not a problem.

I still OC on a daily basis with no problems at all.

I do not consider a stop and check a real problem. Show your ID and continue to have a nice day. When you're the only guy with an OC sidearm at a campsite, a few of the sheep MAY take notice and cell phone the nearest Ranger station. Still not a problem, at least for me.

AD

Stop an check?
Unless the LEO (fish cop/game warden/whatever) has a reasonable suspicion that you have committed a crime (including a violation of a fishing/hunting regulation) he may not stop and check anything unless you allow it to be done. They cannot lawfully stop you just to make sure you have a fishing license ant more than they can stop you just to see if you have a DL.
 

2OLD2W8

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2011
Messages
138
Location
Black Waters
Stop an check?
Unless the LEO (fish cop/game warden/whatever) has a reasonable suspicion that you have committed a crime (including a violation of a fishing/hunting regulation) he may not stop and check anything unless you allow it to be done. They cannot lawfully stop you just to make sure you have a fishing license ant more than they can stop you just to see if you have a DL.

Most LEO wouldn't give two hoots of concern about the lawful aspect of stopping and questioning a person.... IMO..... Some LEO have a deep dark desire for intervention and that lust triggers their mind into a mode of attaching "suspicious" to any activity when conveniently needed to "quench their intervention thirst ", the legal aspect is a moot point unless the aggrieved party speaks out or takes action.....
 

ADulay

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
512
Location
Punta Gorda, Florida, USA
Stop an check?
Unless the LEO (fish cop/game warden/whatever) has a reasonable suspicion that you have committed a crime (including a violation of a fishing/hunting regulation) he may not stop and check anything unless you allow it to be done. They cannot lawfully stop you just to make sure you have a fishing license ant more than they can stop you just to see if you have a DL.

In the two previous encounters I've mentioned, I would reasonably expect that they did, in fact, have a reason to stop and check me.

Coming from the shooting range, on WMA property, the Fish/Game officer believed that I was open carrying illegally and made the stop. We discussed it, pulled up the appropriate statute on his computer and he said that although he knew about the "fishing, camping, hunting" portion, he had never actually encountered anyone on the "shooting" part of it and didn't realize it was "two paragraphs" further down the page! OK, he learns something and I'm on my way down the road, still OC.

On the fishing "stop", it was a panicky citizen who called in about some guy fishing with a gun on the pier.

He merely approached me, saw that I was doing and realized what was going on. I think he actually talked with me because the "citizen" was watching and he had to appear to "do something". This type of "stop" has happened at least two times that I'm aware of. Panicky citizen calls 911 to report a guy with a gun. For some reason, the dispatcher never seems to ask "What is the guy with the gun doing?" Is he waving the gun around? Is he pointing it at anybody?

Uh, no, he's fishing and drinking a Diet Coke.

They just send a car out and the citizen hides behind a tree to watch what happens.

Oh well, not a real problem in the overall scheme of things.

AD
 

ixtow

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Joined
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Messages
5,038
Location
Suwannee County, FL
For some reason, the dispatcher never seems to ask "What is the guy with the gun doing?" Is he waving the gun around? Is he pointing it at anybody?

Uh, no, he's fishing and drinking a Diet Coke.

They just send a car out and the citizen hides behind a tree to watch what happens.

Oh well, not a real problem in the overall scheme of things.

AD
They're not about to ask a question the answer to which might ruin their fun... Dispatch gets excuse to harass under color of law, that's all they need, don't ruin it by finding out there's no problem... Hopefully the individual officer getting the call isn't of the same agenda.

AD, I don't mean to insult you, but you have a lot of things cops like about you. I'm sure you're not bashful about bringing it all up in conversation becasue you know it helps you. Not everyone has those advantages. I'm not the sort that tries to look like I fit in. I feel like the law and our rights should apply equally no matter who we are or where we come from. Even if I have an advantage, I don't use it to make life easier for myself because I should not be treated like I'm special. I don't accept the tiered elitism that is considered the norm of society. You use your advantages to make sure encounters go well. That shouldn't be done because not everyone has the same advantages. You get smooth sailing for it. Not everyone else does. You use that fact that the law is NOT applied equally to your advantage. Your experiences are not what everyone else gets. I rouse rabble, and do my best to be it myself, because rights are rights and it shouldn't make a damn bit of difference.
 

ixtow

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
5,038
Location
Suwannee County, FL
While helpful links have been provided regarding National Forests, I still have not gotten any Official confirmation. They either ignore the inquiry, insult me for asking, or threaten me for asking. Zero useful response.
 

77zach

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Messages
2,913
Location
Marion County, FL
They're not about to ask a question the answer to which might ruin their fun... Dispatch gets excuse to harass under color of law, that's all they need, don't ruin it by finding out there's no problem... Hopefully the individual officer getting the call isn't of the same agenda
AD, I don't mean to insult you, but you have a lot of things cops like about you. I'm sure you're not bashful about bringing it all up in conversation becasue you know it helps you. Not everyone has those advantages. I'm not the sort that tries to look like I fit in. I feel like the law and our rights should apply equally no matter who we are or where we come from. Even if I have an advantage, I don't use it to make life easier for myself because I should not be treated like I'm special. I don't accept the tiered elitism that is considered the norm of society. You use your advantages to make sure encounters go well. That shouldn't be done because not everyone has the same advantages. You get smooth sailing for it. Not everyone else does. You use that fact that the law is NOT applied equally to your advantage. Your experiences are not what everyone else gets. I rouse rabble, and do my best to be it myself, because rights are rights and it shouldn't make a damn bit of difference.

I agree, but the fact is that most people are afraid of rights as things "too hot for their hands", as HL Mencken said. That's not your problem, but it is a political reality. Being agreeable goes a long way to allay the trepidation that the sheeple or paranoid/power tripping enforcers feel when they see someone bucking the program. So, I think AD is doing a wonderful civic service. Personally I'd say something like "I'm not required to give you ID but I know exercising our rights is unusual behavior in America so here you go."

Now if I were in a state where OC was more common or generally legal, I would not show my ID unless it was a special circumstance.
 
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