Page 1 of 18 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 430

Thread: Political Correctness and Darwin

  1. #1
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Marion County, FL
    Posts
    3,005

    Political Correctness and Darwin

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/11/f...s-nonsensical/

    One of my academic interests has to do with ideas that are widely held to be true, but are in fact obviously false. Evolution is one of my favorites. Fred Reed is an agnostic journalist who has a handful of articles on this topic on his website. This is his latest.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    +1

    a good read

  3. #3
    Regular Member Brace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    209
    Horrible. Every argument is heavily interwoven with fallacies and the conclusions don't even follow. Darwinian evolution is long dead but only because it's been replaced with better models, which is how science works, so it isn't even attacking a valid target. Targets of opportunity are consistently attacked in place of the actual views of his contemporaries, and interspersed with all of this are a smattering of talking points which bear no relationship to each other except by way of the author's own person. It is just not very good at all. At least it consists of actual ideas though, and the prose is ok.

  4. #4
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Marion County, FL
    Posts
    3,005
    Quote Originally Posted by Brace View Post
    Horrible. Every argument is heavily interwoven with fallacies and the conclusions don't even follow. Darwinian evolution is long dead but only because it's been replaced with better models, which is how science works, so it isn't even attacking a valid target. Targets of opportunity are consistently attacked in place of the actual views of his contemporaries, and interspersed with all of this are a smattering of talking points which bear no relationship to each other except by way of the author's own person. It is just not very good at all. At least it consists of actual ideas though, and the prose is ok.
    Oh to be sure the specifics of the models change more frequently than the latest computer hardware specifications, but the theme is unchanged. My sister's college biology book, published in 2012, shows this. The examples change, but the theme is the same as in my book from 2004 from the same authors.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    199

    Darwin

    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    Oh to be sure the specifics of the models change more frequently than the latest computer hardware specifications, but the theme is unchanged. My sister's college biology book, published in 2012, shows this. The examples change, but the theme is the same as in my book from 2004 from the same authors.
    Evolution is the worlds's most dumbest and most dangerous religion there ever was. It was Hitler's religion and look what a great peace lover he was. Darwin was not a scientist the only degree he ever got was a divinity degree. Darwin was a preacher who created his own religion called evolution. Everything they have EVER used for proof has been proven to be a lie.
    What has this subject have to do with open carry any way?

  6. #6
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,445
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Birdman View Post
    Evolution is the worlds's most dumbest and most dangerous religion there ever was. It was Hitler's religion and look what a great peace lover he was. Darwin was not a scientist the only degree he ever got was a divinity degree. Darwin was a preacher who created his own religion called evolution. Everything they have EVER used for proof has been proven to be a lie.
    What has this subject have to do with open carry any way?
    It's the social lounge and most anything can be discussed.

    And evolution is a scientific fact. It is the best explanation for the diversity of life on earth. WAY better than, "I don't know, therefore a god did it."
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  7. #7
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Marion County, FL
    Posts
    3,005
    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    And evolution is a scientific fact.
    Amazing! This is Nobel Prize worthy, since even so called "evolutionary biologists" still call the idea a theory.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Brace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    209
    Scientists call everything a theory. It's part of what makes them scientists.

  9. #9
    Regular Member jhfc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Vancouver, WA
    Posts
    164
    From wiki, a *Scientific Theory" is:

    A scientific theory is a coherent set of concepts, explanations, and/or predictions of a particular aspect of reality, which can be tested and supported through repeated observations and experiments. Scientific theories are used to explain and predict aspects of the physical universe or specific areas of inquiry (e.g. electricity, chemistry, astronomy) [1][2] A critical component of a scientific theory is that it is testable and falsifiable.
    A scientific theory is the product of a well-substantiated hypothesis that has been adequately corroborated by way of the scientific method. Since the confirmation process of a scientific theory is inherently based on Inductive reasoning, a scientific theory cannot be known to be true with absolute certainty; however, the validity of a scientific theory can be inferred with great confidence.[3][4] As such, as scientists collect additional scientific evidence over time, a scientific theory may be entirely rejected and modified if it does not fit the new empirical findings. In certain cases, the less-accurate unmodified scientific theory can still be treated as a theory if it is useful (due to its sheer simplicity) as an approximation under specific conditions (e.g. Newton's laws of motion as an approximation to Special relativity at small velocities relative to the speed of light).
    as opposed to I have some wild-assed guess about how something might work. "Goddidit" falls into the WAG camp: no coherent set of concepts, explanations and/or predictions of a particular aspect of reality. "Goddidit" is the antithesis of knowing anything whatsoever. It is the lazy man's way of "explaining" hard things and goes back to the "methods" we used in our dark, ignorant past.

    Evolution is a fact, supported by *every* scientific discipline. If you choose to deny evolution you should also deny the other outputs of these same processes: gasoline, medicine, dentistry, computers and so on.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,154

    For my fellow academics

    Neither evolution nor creation can be falsified. See Karl Popper's The Logic of Scientific Discovery, wherein falsifiability is presented as the Demarcation Problem boundary between science and non-science. Gasoline, medicine, dentistry, computers and so on are products of technology that is faaar removed from science.
    Thus the formula of the fascist brew is in all countries the same: Hegel plus a dash of nineteenth-century materialism (especially Darwinism in the somewhat crude form given to it by Haeckel[ ]). The 'scientific' element in racialism can be traced back to Haeckel, who was responsible, in 1900, for a prize-competition whose subject was: 'What can we learn from the principles of Darwinism in respect of the internal and political development of a state?' The first prize was allotted to a voluminous racialist work by W. Schallmeyer, who thus became the grandfather of racial biology. It is interesting to observe how strongly this materialist racialism, despite its very different origin, resembles the naturalism of Plato. In both cases, the basic idea is that degeneration, particularly of the upper classes, is at the root of political decay (read: of the advance of the open society). Moreover, the modern myth of Blood and Soil has its exact counterpart in Plato's Myth of the Earthborn. Nevertheless, not 'Hegel + Plato', but 'Hegel + Haeckel' is the formula of modern racialism. As we shall see, Marx replaced Hegel's 'Spirit' by matter, and by material and economic interests. In the same way, racialism substitutes for Hegel's 'Spirit' something material, the quasi-biological conception of Blood or Race. Instead of 'Spirit', Blood is the self-developing essence; instead of 'Spirit', Blood is the Sovereign of the world, and displays itself on the Stage of History; and instead of its 'Spirit', the Blood of a nation determines its essential destiny. Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies, Volume II: The High Tide of Prophecy, Chapter 12 Hegel and the New Tribalism, page 273
    Last edited by Nightmare; 11-20-2013 at 02:59 PM.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,011
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Neither evolution nor creation can be falsified. See Karl Popper's The Logic of Scientific Discovery, wherein falsifiability is presented as the Demarcation Problem boundary between science and non-science. Gasoline, medicine, dentistry, computers and so on are products of technology that is faaar removed from science.
    Here are 7 ways that evolution could be falsified:
    http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress....ove-evolution/

  12. #12
    Regular Member Brace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    209
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Neither evolution nor creation can be falsified. See Karl Popper's The Logic of Scientific Discovery, wherein falsifiability is presented as the Demarcation Problem boundary between science and non-science. Gasoline, medicine, dentistry, computers and so on are products of technology that is faaar removed from science.
    That quote pertains to psuedoscience which appropriated evolutionary rhetoric, not to evolutionary theory. By that same overbroad logic one could oppose science itself on the basis of the existence of psuedoscience.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,154
    So much for the Problem of Demarcation, with which the giants, on whose shoulders we stand, have so struggled.

    Popper wrote ~800 pages on falsification as a boundary to the Problem of Demarcation - all whisked away with an internet bon mot. If it was so easy then every one might do it.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    4,216
    Here's why I go for Evolution. The scientific community pretty much has it nailed that our DNA comes from apes (and like 6 subspecies that evolved to us). Now I've had this discussion with a very religous gentleman I met in Infantry School. He was a devote Southern Baptist and a very intelligent man. Some how we got on the conversation of this in between training. He stated "How do you know the Scientists aren't wrong or lying?" "Carbon dating is fake and inaccurate". I simply replied that I believe in science because if I so chose, I could become a scientist and do these very same tests and get the very same results for my own eyes.

    This type of argument can be used for anything.... One side says "look I have this evidence right here (bones, DNA, fossils, Chemistry) this is how it works". The other side says "No I refuse to believe you, it says here in this book how it works that's all I need."

    I am not a scientist, so could they be wrong or lying to me about something? Sure. But I'm comforted in the fact that I can learn their field (if I wasn't so dumb) and test their theories myself. Also, scientists regularly call themselves out out on fishy or bogus science. They are like a pack of hounds on eachother to make sure they aren't using funny numbers. A guy in Wyoming comes up with a new chemical. Well a guy in China is promptly redoing his work to make sure he isn't wrong.

    Religon (Creationism) is the exact opposite. If there are an opposing views in the field (such as other religons or even all of the books scrubbed from the bible that didn't fit) they get promptly squished and the people are usually killed who say it.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Brace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    209
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    So much for the Problem of Demarcation, with which the giants, on whose shoulders we stand, have so struggled.

    Popper wrote ~800 pages on falsification as a boundary to the Problem of Demarcation - all whisked away with an internet bon mot. If it was so easy then every one might do it.
    You have a strange reading of Popper, and an even stranger inability to click links.
    Last edited by Brace; 11-20-2013 at 06:17 PM.

  16. #16
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,273
    God has a plan and evolution is but one component of his plan.

  17. #17
    Regular Member jhfc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Vancouver, WA
    Posts
    164
    And later, Popper himself recanted his position on the falsifiability of the theory of natural selection (not evolution itself):

    I still believe that natural selection works in this way as a research programme. Nevertheless, I have changed my mind about the testability and the logical status of the theory of natural selection; and I am glad to have an opportunity to make a recantation. My recantation may, I hope, contribute a little to the understanding of the status of natural selection.
    http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA211_1.html

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,154
    Thanks for the on point comment. I look forward to reading through to there.

    The comments on tautology are interesting for Any Rand's A is A faux-profundity. Popper apparently recanted late but without justifying his recantation in the language of Logik der Forschung. He spent 800 pages developing falsificationism and with mention of evolution, that isn't swept away with an Internet page.

    A truth statement is a tautology and worthless without qualification. A is not-B is much more valuable.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    In My Coffee
    Posts
    5,278
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Birdman View Post
    Evolution is the worlds's most dumbest and most dangerous religion there ever was. It was Hitler's religion and look what a great peace lover he was. Darwin was not a scientist the only degree he ever got was a divinity degree. Darwin was a preacher who created his own religion called evolution. Everything they have EVER used for proof has been proven to be a lie.
    What has this subject have to do with open carry any way?

    Hitler believed in evolution? Seriously, read Mein Kampf; Hitler, is his own words, stated that he is "[...doing the work of the Lord...]" Who the F is the Lord Hitler is referring too?
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  20. #20
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    In My Coffee
    Posts
    5,278
    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    It's the social lounge and most anything can be discussed.

    And evolution is a scientific fact. It is the best explanation for the diversity of life on earth. WAY better than, "I don't know, therefore a god did it."
    Please, don't associate "the best explanation," with Fact, or Scientific Fact.

    It's a Fact that your association is flawed.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  21. #21
    Regular Member Brace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    209
    Verisimilitude is a formal scientific concept which basically means "the best explanation". It is at the heart of science.

  22. #22
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063
    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    God has a plan and evolution is but one component of his plan.
    Could well be. However, there isn't one whit of evidence that we evolved from apes, or that we evolved from a common ancestor with apes. I have little doubt that we evolved from ape-like versions of our species.

    Intraspecial evolution has been observed. Interspecial evolution has not been.

    Reminds me of a joke: The answer to whether or not the chicken or the egg came first depends on whether or not you accept evolution. If you believe in Creation, God created a chicken, and it laid an egg. If you believe in evolution, something else laid an egg, and out popped a chicken.

    There is evolution that alters the nature of a species (through which it adapts if it will survive). The jury is still out on one species evolving from another. Personally, I find it unlikely to the point that happening even once is highly improbable, let alone happening millions of times.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

    <o>

  23. #23
    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Árida Zona
    Posts
    1,648
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Hitler believed in evolution? Seriously, read Mein Kampf; Hitler, is his own words, stated that he is "[...doing the work of the Lord...]" Who the F is the Lord Hitler is referring too?
    You try to paint him as a conservative. I would suggest you take your own advice and you may realize that while he may have tried to do the work of the Christian God, he had already created his own anti-Semitic version of the Trinity.
    “Any philosophy, whether of a religious or political nature - and sometimes the dividing line is hard to determine - fights less for the negative destruction of the opposing ideology than for the positive promotion of its own. Hence its struggle is less defensive than offensive. It therefore has the advantage even in determining the goal, since this goal represents the victory of its own idea, while, conversely,it is hard to determine when the negative aim of the destruction of a hostile doctrine may be regarded as achieved and assured. For this reason alone, the philosophy's offensive will be more systematic and also more powerful than the defensive against a philosophy, since here, too, as always, the attack and not the defence makes the decision. The fight against a spiritual power with methods of violence remains defensive, however, until the sword becomes the support,the herald and disseminator, of a new spiritual doctrine.”
    Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf

    On topic, how do we know that evolution is just a natural mechanism for stability built into the framework of a divine Creator? And this is coming from someone who espouses the Theory of Evolution ("theory" being used in the scientific sense, not the more colloquial term which is roughly equivalent to the word "guess").
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    199

    Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Hitler believed in evolution? Seriously, read Mein Kampf; Hitler, is his own words, stated that he is "[...doing the work of the Lord...]" Who the F is the Lord Hitler is referring too?
    Did you ever read the Nazi gospels? There was even a documentary show on the History channel not long ago. It is clear that Hitler was a evolutionists he thought he was just getting rid of human weeds. Didn't you here what he said about Jessie Owens? He said it was not fair for his men to compete against such animals.
    Most evolutionists do not even know what they even believe. You have to help them out so they understand what they really believe in. Billions of years ago nothing exploded (big bang) then the left over remnants of nothingness got together to form the earth. Then the earth was a hot ball of molten rock and then the earth cooled and it rained on the rocks for millions of years and through erosion it formed pools and ponds and lakes and it became some kind of chemical soup and some how like magic the soup came alive and presto here we are. That is how a crock evolved from a rock. Don't tell me creation is religious and evolution is not. Evolution is still the dumbest most dangerous religion that has ever been. Anything that has ever been used to prove evolution has been proven wrong. There is still a 250.000$ reward to any one who can prove it. The reward has been out there for over 20 years. If you have proof then I would like to see it.

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    199

    Diversity

    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    It's the social lounge and most anything can be discussed.

    And evolution is a scientific fact. It is the best explanation for the diversity of life on earth. WAY better than, "I don't know, therefore a god did it."
    What kind of "diversity" are you talking about? Do your really believe a crock (crocodile) evolved from a rock?

Page 1 of 18 12311 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •