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Thread: New NHTSA Attacks on 4th Amendment

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    New NHTSA Attacks on 4th Amendment

    http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Nor...232438621.html

    This report is out of Ft. Worth, where local police were cooperating with NHTSA in setting up roadblocks, where law-abiding drivers were forced into detainment areas for the purposes of obtaining DNA, blood and breathalyzer values.

    FUQ:

    Some drivers along a busy Fort Worth street on Friday were stopped at a police roadblock and directed into a parking lot, where they were asked by federal contractors for samples of their breath, saliva and even blood.

    It was part of a government research study aimed at determining the number of drunken or drug-impaired drivers.

    Once detained, the drivers were asked to voluntarily submit to DNA swabbing, blood sampling and breathalyzer testing in order to collect data for the NHTSA study. Payment was offered for participation. While categorized as voluntary, the drivers were given no option to detainment, however temporarily, while the request for participation was explained to them. Apparently, during the discussion, the drivers breath was being passively analyzed for alcohol content. What's really bothersome is the participation by local law enforcement who are interfering with the driving public's right of unhindered travel in order to facilitate a government data collection program.

    Although this report came from Ft. Worth, NHTSA sources indicate that this program is being executed in 30 U.S. cities.
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    I read that story and recall that the top cop said none of his on-duty cops worked that. He said he would investigate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    ...Apparently, during the discussion, the drivers breath was being passively analyzed for alcohol content....
    That's why the cop wants your window down during the discussion, for the concentrated exhalations - the extra-legal sniff test to develop RAS/PC. Also keep your car's interior immaculate - like Obama - 'cause the cop is doing the extra-legal peek for contraband in plain view.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    I read that story and recall that the top cop said none of his on-duty cops worked that. He said he would investigate.
    The article has been updated to show that off-duty officers were used to detain drivers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    I read that story and recall that the top cop said none of his on-duty cops worked that. He said he would investigate.
    It has been updated. Follow the money.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    The article has been updated to show that off-duty officers were used to detain drivers.
    I would use the term "kidnap" but people are such sheep ... baa baaa

    Of course, OT or a 2nd paycheck for dem der cops ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    The article has been updated to show that off-duty officers were used to detain drivers.
    Misstated. Officers directed cars. There was no detaining.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyb View Post
    Misstated. Officers directed cars. There was no detaining.
    Some drivers along a busy Fort Worth street on Friday were stopped at a police roadblock and directed into a parking lot, where they were asked by federal contractors for samples of their breath, saliva and even blood.
    And some SS directed people into the cattle-cars, not the ovens, just following orders.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    And some SS directed people into the cattle-cars, not the ovens, just following orders.
    Really? You're pathetic to invoke the wartime actions of the SS to this. There was no detaining of people. They didn't have to stop AT ALL. 1 in 6 cars refused the survey or didn't stop.

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyb View Post
    Misstated. Officers directed cars. There was no detaining.
    Legally, you may be correct but in actuality the driver had no recourse but to interrupt her planned route and be shunted into an area where she was given the "opportunity" to participate in the survey. She had indicated to the officer that she desired to proceed straight ahead but he denied her right to proceed. In my book, he was preventing her from her right of free travel in order to meet the needs of NHTSA. While it may not be a legal detainment, their actions certainly detained her from her original route.

    Had she been knowledgeable about how to resist such stops, i.e., "Am I being detained? If not, am I free to go?" she might not have been forced into a "holding" area where she was passively tested for indications of alcohol on her breath.
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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyb View Post
    Really? You're pathetic to invoke the wartime actions of the SS to this. There was no detaining of people. They didn't have to stop AT ALL. 1 in 6 cars refused the survey or didn't stop.
    According to the article, the driver indicated that she wanted to proceed on her way, but the officer demanded that she alter her course to the inspection area.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    Legally, you may be correct but in actuality the driver had no recourse but to interrupt her planned route and be shunted into an area where she was given the "opportunity" to participate in the survey. She had indicated to the officer that she desired to proceed straight ahead but he denied her right to proceed. In my book, he was preventing her from her right of free travel in order to meet the needs of NHTSA. While it may not be a legal detainment, their actions certainly detained her from her original route.

    Had she been knowledgeable about how to resist such stops, i.e., "Am I being detained? If not, am I free to go?" she might not have been forced into a "holding" area where she was passively tested for indications of alcohol on her breath.
    Nope, I'd say that you are describing a detention. I believe Terry refers to such a seizure as the person reasonably believing they were not free to go. That would be true no matter how short the stop.

    If I had standing, I'd be threatening to sue, hoping for change without the suit, but still willing to bring it.


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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Interesting report, but specifically related to OC or RKBA.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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