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Thread: The Knock out Game that black males are now doing...

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    Regular Member Richieg150's Avatar
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    The Knock out Game that black males are now doing...

    I have a question, or food for thought, I have been pondering. Lets say you are walking along with your wife, girlfriend, family, or whoever and all of a sudden they are flattened out by one of these punks. Now you have your firearm with you, as usual, if you fire on them.....and your aim is like it should be.....what will happen next. OR lets say it was YOU who was flattened out by one of these punks, regaining your senses as they turn and walk away, you fire on them, you hit your aiming point....... what will happen next. Will you be crucified by some slick lawyer saying that by someone with you being assaulted and then the assailant walking away YOU were in no danger.....OR after YOU were assaulted and the assailant walked away the threat was gone, and you were no longer in danger???I'm thinking it probably would go to trial, because the punks defense would say something like, He came from a broken home, no parental guidance, no job, just out with his friends having a good time, he didn't mean to hurt anyone, he's a good kid but just happened to lack judgement at that moment, got caught up in the moment, was being pressured by those with him, ect.... He was unarmed.....he was walking away.... he didn't deserve to be shot, ect....SO...... what are some opinions on this ...
    Psalm 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:
    Psalm 144:2 My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me. Pro 14:15 The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.

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    Make sure your victim is facing you.

    The common law elements of self-defense are four; be innocent of instigation, be in reasonable fear of bodily harm, use sufficient force only to deliver oneself from evil, and attempt to withdraw.

    Once hit and on the ground you are in an altercation and at trial it will be just like the Trayvon Martin killing.

    The Tueller Drill informs us that a holstered gun is inappropriate when the assailant is within seven meters. Your SO must be behind you and dialling 911 and you must be yelling before they get that close. You have screwed the pooch at twenty-one feet.

    ETA much later: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill
    Last edited by Nightmare; 11-23-2013 at 07:11 PM. Reason: Emphasis for the hard of reading
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    Regular Member Richieg150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Make sure your victim is facing you.

    The common law elements of self-defense are four; be innocent of instigation, be in reasonable fear of bodily harm, use sufficient force only to deliver oneself from evil, and attempt to withdraw.

    Once hit and on the ground you are in an altercation and at trial it will be just like the Trayvon Martin killing.
    So, they can knock you or someone else out, turn and walk away, and can get away with it because they are withdrawing....Hopefully the jury, 12 like minded sober individuals, will decide that the victim was on the ground and not the one with the fatal gunshot wound.
    Psalm 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:
    Psalm 144:2 My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me. Pro 14:15 The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.

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    If you shoot one of these knock out goons there is a 90% chance a DA will charge you.

    However, given the current societal outrage in America right now I think there is a 4% chance you would be convicted.

    It would be great if you could shoot the person who threw the punch but make sure to also get the person who video tapes it.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Well if you are knocked out obviously you are not going to be using deadly force. If you shoot someone in the back, it is likely you will be charged.

    Either do not let anyone that close or get a trained dog. If you are knocked out and the dog then attacks you cannot be held responsible for what the dog does while you are unconscious, IMO.
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    First the side note--and not applicable to this thread. Its just that I thought of it earlier and didn't have time to post it; now I'm reminded of it: The media, as usual, is making the world seem far more dangerous than it really is. There are some 150M adults in this country. And, we have what? ten reports of knock-out game injuries?

    I don't know that I would start crossing the street yet to avoid a small group of young adult males.



    Regarding shooting the puncher, the law is the law. Shooting the puncher after the single punch is probably illegal in your jurisdiction.

    Lets face it. You have no way to see it coming; it catches you totally by surprise. What are you gonna do? Start shying away from every small group of young adult males? Some things in life you can't avoid. I lump this one in the same category as the thorough-planning mugger. Even Condition Yellow won't save you from the guy who sees you coming from two blocks away, who secretes himself into the alcove, laying his trap well to catch you off guard.

    On the other hand, single punches intended to cause unconsciousness may well rise to to the point that you can legally apprehend and hold him for police. You can check out the law in your jurisdiction to see what sort of things are allowed for citizen's arrest whether you are the punchee or someone else like your brother walking beside you. For sure, a single punch that is intended to cause unconsciousness rises to grave bodily injury or death. An unconscious person bouncing his head off a curb, wall, or sidewalk can have seriious brain damage. Heck, the punch itself can break the orbital bone around the eye, detach a retina, or cause brain damage.
    Last edited by Citizen; 11-23-2013 at 07:17 PM.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    A LEO in some states can use deadly force for a perp fleeing a forcible felony. In most states I do not believe that citizens are given that privilege. Still I don't see how most people would be able to fire a weapon competently having such a blow.
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    I did not cross the street, I crossed Death's Door Passage.

    On a side note too, the Island is about to sink for all of the big-city "hunters" PU's and the ferry did not sail today for the weather (or to get that last nickel out of their pockets). About half of the PU's still have their tailgates up, means no joy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    A LEO in some states can use deadly force for a perp fleeing a forcible felony. In most states I do not believe that citizens are given that privilege. Still I don't see how most people would be able to fire a weapon competently having such a blow.
    Yeah. That's why I said to check state law.

    For myself, a cop cannot possibly have authority to use deadly force to apprehend a presently dangerous felon unless a citizen has the same authority. How can a government agent have an authority if the citizen did not first have that authority to delegate? But, that's just my question. Best to pay attention to the law in your own jurisdiction.
    Last edited by Citizen; 11-23-2013 at 07:30 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    A LEO in some states can use deadly force for a perp fleeing a forcible felony. In most states I do not believe that citizens are given that privilege. Still I don't see how most people would be able to fire a weapon competently having such a blow.
    A citizen can sometimes shoot a fleeing felon in my state...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    ...There are some 150M adults in this country. And, we have what? ten reports of knock-out game injuries?...
    Good point.

    You are assuming your attacker is NOT one of these rare knockout game attackers. You are thoroughly convinced he means the finish the job and that you are still in fear for your life. You are disoriented and fire at the attacker to stop the threat, even before realizing he hasn't yet turned around to finish you off.
    Last edited by MAC702; 11-23-2013 at 11:44 PM.
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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    First the side note--and not applicable to this thread. Its just that I thought of it earlier and didn't have time to post it; now I'm reminded of it: The media, as usual, is making the world seem far more dangerous than it really is. There are some 150M adults in this country. And, we have what? ten reports of knock-out game injuries?
    I'm guessing it's well into the hundreds judging by what Colin Flaherty has been writing for some time now. He does have a book out, which I have but have not read yet, called "White Girl Bleed A Lot" that details many of these attacks.
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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Make sure your victim is facing you.

    The common law elements of self-defense are four; be innocent of instigation, be in reasonable fear of bodily harm, use sufficient force only to deliver oneself from evil, and attempt to withdraw.
    We don't have to concern ourselves with this in my state, providing the preceding criteria have been met. However I would suggest that if an avenue to safety is available and can be taken safely, take it.
    Last edited by SouthernBoy; 11-24-2013 at 12:05 AM.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

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    I think there have been a lot more than 10 incidents... The guy that was playing the knockout game with a taser, and had the malfunction, and was shot, said that he his group of friends playing had done it about 6 or 7 times before the incident in which he was shot twice, and he wasn't even that interested in the game... Just did it as a result of peer pressure and boredom.


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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    I'm guessing it's well into the hundreds judging by what Colin Flaherty has been writing for some time now. He does have a book out, which I have but have not read yet, called "White Girl Bleed A Lot" that details many of these attacks.
    Oh, I see. I heard something about it maybe a year ago, then nothing again til very recently. Thanks for the info.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Same old topic just a different twist.
    The use of force and amount of force will depend upon the present threat. Suggesting our expecting not to be touched or harmed before one acknowledges the threat is unrealistic.
    Most robberies or unprovoked attacks you will not know until they are on you until it happens and the tuller rule is a past subject.
    The only time I see any of this is if you act to stop a threat of another and then make sure you can articulate how that incident applies to self defense to your lawyer.
    Referencing this knock out game which several dispute if it's real or not, but likely you will be fully involved before you know it.

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    Last edited by BigDave; 11-30-2013 at 10:28 PM.
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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    This post is purely racist.

    There is no way that whites are not doing this.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richieg150 View Post
    I have a question, or food for thought, I have been pondering. Lets say you are walking along with your wife, girlfriend, family, or whoever and all of a sudden they are flattened out by one of these punks. Now you have your firearm with you, as usual, if you fire on them.....and your aim is like it should be.....what will happen next. OR lets say it was YOU who was flattened out by one of these punks, regaining your senses as they turn and walk away, you fire on them, you hit your aiming point....... what will happen next. Will you be crucified by some slick lawyer saying that by someone with you being assaulted and then the assailant walking away YOU were in no danger.....OR after YOU were assaulted and the assailant walked away the threat was gone, and you were no longer in danger???I'm thinking it probably would go to trial, because the punks defense would say something like, He came from a broken home, no parental guidance, no job, just out with his friends having a good time, he didn't mean to hurt anyone, he's a good kid but just happened to lack judgement at that moment, got caught up in the moment, was being pressured by those with him, ect.... He was unarmed.....he was walking away.... he didn't deserve to be shot, ect....SO...... what are some opinions on this ...
    Local law would dictate, but you would most likely get screwed for shooting them if it was because they punched your girl. Especially if they just hit her and walked away. I would even venture to say that if they just punch you in the face still a NO GO. That would be simple assault up here. A Misdemeanor not even arrestable in the past. Also, it would matter if they state had a Stand Your Ground "law". If they don't, then forget it, take the hit and move on. If they do, then you may have a chance in court. There is a million "what ifs" but that's the basics of it.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Just for fun, you're walking out of Starbucks, you have a friend with you who's not related. This kid comes running fist pulled back.

    You turn and see and without realizing you did it you throw hot coffee in his face.

    What's the law gonna do?

    Maybe you came out of Lowes and you have a can of paint and the lid is loose, or a can of spray paint that the cap was loose. Kid gets a face full, maybe he's burned, painted blue, sprayed yellow.

    But shoot, nope.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Just for fun, you're walking out of Starbucks, you have a friend with you who's not related. This kid comes running fist pulled back.

    You turn and see and without realizing you did it you throw hot coffee in his face.

    What's the law gonna do?

    Maybe you came out of Lowes and you have a can of paint and the lid is loose, or a can of spray paint that the cap was loose. Kid gets a face full, maybe he's burned, painted blue, sprayed yellow.

    But shoot, nope.
    A kid, poor choice I think.
    Please articulate the threat using AOJ Ability Opportunity and Jeopardy as this will be your defense.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Just for fun, you're walking out of Starbucks, you have a friend with you who's not related. This kid comes running fist pulled back.

    You turn and see and without realizing you did it you throw hot coffee in his face.

    What's the law gonna do?

    Maybe you came out of Lowes and you have a can of paint and the lid is loose, or a can of spray paint that the cap was loose. Kid gets a face full, maybe he's burned, painted blue, sprayed yellow.

    But shoot, nope.
    To put this assault behavior into context---- there was a guy hit and killed by a single punch in a casino restroom in Las Vegas a year or so ago. Any punch that strikes hard enough to knock someone out or down has the potential to cause death----just because it doesn't is just luck. If the Criminal takes the risk and does the act then they get what comes to them as I attempt to defend myself as able (Note: this is not saying I am attempting to get revenge AFTER the attack, that is what the police and courts are for--- to prosecute, convict, and penalize the TWIT!)
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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    To put this assault behavior into context---- there was a guy hit and killed by a single punch in a casino restroom in Las Vegas a year or so ago. Any punch that strikes hard enough to knock someone out or down has the potential to cause death----just because it doesn't is just luck. If the Criminal takes the risk and does the act then they get what comes to them as I attempt to defend myself as able (Note: this is not saying I am attempting to get revenge AFTER the attack, that is what the police and courts are for--- to prosecute, convict, and penalize the TWIT!)
    Joe, you're making a lot of sense. But you are trying to 'thread the needle' in these arguments.

    "A guy was killed..." <---as one poster said 1 or 10 deaths from this over the whole US is not an epidemic. We don't arm up at the beach to prevent shark attacks in the surf.

    If a large bird attacks you, can you carry a handgun to fire and defeat this attack. Yes you can, but it will have about 1% effectiveness.

    Using a firing solution for an attack by a random teenager who thinks it's a joke (and though thuggish really does not want to kill their target, just humiliate them and gain 'street cred') is STUPID, INEFFECTIVE and a poor use of your firearm.

    In the 1 in 10,000 attacks where you can see it, deploy, shoot the kid as he hits you, have it on video, be declared innocent in court, stop these type of attacks in the future (since you won't have a bounty on your head for a 'KO', being made infamous in the news, right?) you're better off with another strategy...or maybe ignoring the whole darn thing, because it's RARE. If it's not rare where you are MOVE.

    I don't mean to be sarcastic, or not humor you. But just because you CAN do something doesn't mean it's prudent.

    FWIW

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Burden of proof is on the state (supposedly) so the state should prove there was no justification in using force.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Joe, you're making a lot of sense. But you are trying to 'thread the needle' in these arguments.

    "A guy was killed..." <---as one poster said 1 or 10 deaths from this over the whole US is not an epidemic. We don't arm up at the beach to prevent shark attacks in the surf.

    If a large bird attacks you, can you carry a handgun to fire and defeat this attack. Yes you can, but it will have about 1% effectiveness.

    Using a firing solution for an attack by a random teenager who thinks it's a joke (and though thuggish really does not want to kill their target, just humiliate them and gain 'street cred') is STUPID, INEFFECTIVE and a poor use of your firearm.

    In the 1 in 10,000 attacks where you can see it, deploy, shoot the kid as he hits you, have it on video, be declared innocent in court, stop these type of attacks in the future (since you won't have a bounty on your head for a 'KO', being made infamous in the news, right?) you're better off with another strategy...or maybe ignoring the whole darn thing, because it's RARE. If it's not rare where you are MOVE.

    I don't mean to be sarcastic, or not humor you. But just because you CAN do something doesn't mean it's prudent.

    FWIW
    The problem besides being rare with shooting in these attacks, it just does not make any common sense. If you have been struck by a strong young man I doubt most people have the sense to draw, acquire a sight picture, and take a shot. Besides the fact that taking the shot after the fact means prison. In these type of attacks, though rare, there is NO way to predict most of them. It is like that misrepresentation of the Tueller drill, it is not about shooting and shooting faster. It is about SA, and not getting in a spot if possible where a person can be taken advantage of. It is to demonstrate that a handgun is useless in some attacks, it amazes me that people miss that.

    I bring it up because knockout is a rush attack with a fist, instead of a knife. If still conscious the best thing to do is protect yourself the best way possible, if the attack continues and the opportunity arises then use the necessary force. In a case of a crowd that may mean pretending to be knocked out, until the attackers leave.

    A lot of these attacks happen to people who are in the wrong place, or they walk with their head down not making eye contact with others. Other words acting like victims.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    T

    A lot of these attacks happen to people who are in the wrong place, or they walk with their head down not making eye contact with others. Other words acting like victims.

    +100 I have tried to emphasize this for years.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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