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Thread: OC in Kentwood

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    OC in Kentwood

    Just moved to Kentwood, MI. This definitely answers my question pertaining to open carry. Was thinking of open carrying while out on a walk. Seems like even if I know about preemption, the cops would just mention this ordinance. Then they would bring up that local ordinances would take precedence.

    Wouldn't authorized by law would denote the preemption clause in our state constitution?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xpiatio View Post
    Just moved to Kentwood, MI. This definitely answers my question pertaining to open carry. Was thinking of open carrying while out on a walk. Seems like even if I know about preemption, the cops would just mention this ordinance. Then they would bring up that local ordinances would take precedence.

    Wouldn't authorized by law would denote the preemption clause in our state constitution?
    State law trumps local ordinances - you know it, they know it, and the courts know it.

    123.1102 Regulation of pistols or other firearms.
    Sec. 2.
    A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.
    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%2...e=mcl-123-1102
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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xpiatio View Post
    Just moved to Kentwood, MI. This definitely answers my question pertaining to open carry. Was thinking of open carrying while out on a walk. Seems like even if I know about preemption, the cops would just mention this ordinance. Then they would bring up that local ordinances would take precedence.

    Wouldn't authorized by law would denote the preemption clause in our state constitution?
    i'm not sure what the preemption clause in the constitution is that you are referring to. i know of no such clause. however, this ordinance is likely enforceable since it only applies to those "without authority by law." if you are lawfully allowed to possess a firearm, then you may possess it in public.
    furthermore, this thread was started in 2009 and in the following years, michigan has come a long way in understanding open carry. i would be surprised if you had any problems in kentwood. just keep a personal recording device operating on you at all times. it's good policy to do so while open carrying.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xpiatio View Post
    Just moved to Kentwood, MI. This definitely answers my question pertaining to open carry. Was thinking of open carrying while out on a walk. Seems like even if I know about preemption, the cops would just mention this ordinance. Then they would bring up that local ordinances would take precedence.

    Wouldn't authorized by law would denote the preemption clause in our state constitution?
    Welcome to Kentwood! I open carry all the time in Kentwood weather allowing. I have OC'd at the Kentwood Police Dept as well as many stores.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

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    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    this ordinance is likely enforceable since it only applies to those "without authority by law." if you are lawfully allowed to possess a firearm, then you may possess it in public.
    ^ that

    Welcome to Kentwood, allow me to introduce myself. My name is Tom Lambert and I am the Assistant Legislative Director and Assistant SW Regional Coordinator for Michigan Open Carry. Myself and many others carry regularly in Kentwood without issue. The Kentwood police are generally informed on OC and do not seem to be a problem. Should you have any issues, PM me and I will help you get everything sorted out.

    Also, I'm currently working on getting events setup in the area. Probably for after the new year. Stay tuned.

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    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Hope you don't mind that I split this out into a new thread.

    Regarding OC in Kentwood, KPD is well aware of the law. Provided YOU are well versed, you should be good to go most areas of West MI, however, law enforcement can and may choose to make your life difficult. Some risk factors are things such as age, personal appearance, behavior, time of day, location.

    If you look 'suspicious', they can decide to have a discussion (fishing expedition) to see if there's any concerns. There are some good resources on this site, and michiganopencarry.org. In a nutshell, don't debate with LEOs, don't say anything more that you have to, ask if you are being detained. If not, wish them a nice day, and be on your way. If you ARE being detained, don't say anything until you talk to your lawyer.

    I never have a problem, but I'm a little past middle age white male professional, and look like I can afford a good lawyer. Your mileage may vary.

    Any time you want to go to coffee, there's any number of folks who'll take you up on it. You're not in this alone....
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    A little history - many, many Cities in MI still have firearms ordinances on the books, even though they know they cannot (legally) be enforced. Why? Because they hope law-abiding citizens such as you will read them and obey them even though you are not required to by MI law. It is a willful atfempt on their part to fool people. MI law has no penalty to force them to remove or change bad ordinances, and that feeds into the problem.

    Many cities used to have ordinances against: inter-racial couples, blacks using white rest rooms, not having persons with red lanterns walking infront & behind cars, etc... the cities have managed to strike all those "unlawful" ordinances from the books. Yet somehow the ones regulating firearms are still there? My point - until MI law is stronger and mandates that unlawful ordninances be removed from city/township books they will continue to be used by little tin-pot dictatorships to passively assert their will as law. MI has many fine people, but you also have many not so fine legislators.

    Just my honest opinion, take it for what it cost you.
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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    A little history - many, many Cities in MI still have firearms ordinances on the books, even though they know they cannot (legally) be enforced. Why? Because they hope law-abiding citizens such as you will read them and obey them even though you are not required to by MI law. It is a willful atfempt on their part to fool people. MI law has no penalty to force them to remove or change bad ordinances, and that feeds into the problem.

    Many cities used to have ordinances against: inter-racial couples, blacks using white rest rooms, not having persons with red lanterns walking infront & behind cars, etc... the cities have managed to strike all those "unlawful" ordinances from the books. Yet somehow the ones regulating firearms are still there? My point - until MI law is stronger and mandates that unlawful ordninances be removed from city/township books they will continue to be used by little tin-pot dictatorships to passively assert their will as law. MI has many fine people, but you also have many not so fine legislators.

    Just my honest opinion, take it for what it cost you.
    Beware! A rant!

    I consider local governments with illegal gun ordinances that do not change those ordinances to be willfully and intentionally passively enforcing those illegal ordinances.

    Let me use speed limits for an example:

    Cops... actively... "enforce" speed limits by writing tickets that have fines attached to them.

    Speed limit signs out in the middle of nowhere often don't have a cop attached to them so there won't be any ticket or fine yet just the sign notifying folks what the speed limit is will cause folks to slow down. The speed limit was just "passively" enforced by nothing more than a sign.

    And if there is an outdated speed limit sign left up after the limit was raised? Well... even if the cops don't actively enforce what the sign says.... that sign still passively enforces the old, no longer valid, speed limit.

    So it is with illegal ordinances being "passively enforced" merely by leaving them on the books.

    Which is why folks need to take it upon themselves to research local gun ordinances in their area and pester the appropriate councils to get them changed. Even if it takes months and personal appearances at council meetings it is (in my opinion) very worth it just to show those local wannabe tyrants someone is holding them accountable. They might change the illegal ordinance(s) just to get you to stop attending meetings and pestering them.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Thank you guys for replying back. Since my first post I took a CPL training course. Yet my gun was sent back to get worked on. What does a malfunctioning gun do for me? Hopefully I get it back fast.

    All dependant upon when I get my gun back and when weather gets a little bit warmer, I'll be out. I've been taking minimal steps. Like walking down to get my mail. Walking my girl friend to her car. I guess its in the small steps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xpiatio View Post
    Thank you guys for replying back. Since my first post I took a CPL training course. Yet my gun was sent back to get worked on. What does a malfunctioning gun do for me? Hopefully I get it back fast.

    All dependant upon when I get my gun back and when weather gets a little bit warmer, I'll be out. I've been taking minimal steps. Like walking down to get my mail. Walking my girl friend to her car. I guess its in the small steps.
    I'm not too far away. Pm me if you want to get together. As was said earlier there are a number of us close by who'd be happy to help you get use to things.

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    Everyone is aware of the seminar in January, right? Still working out a meal before or after the seminar.
    Last edited by bigt8261; 12-13-2013 at 12:34 PM.

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    I RSVP'd for it online. Dragging my gf with me.

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xpiatio View Post
    I RSVP'd for it online. Dragging my gf with me.
    Don't drag her...just promise to take here shopping afterwards and she'll be excited to be there.
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 12-16-2013 at 12:10 AM.
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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

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    Yeah don't need to do even that. It's because of her and her family that had me even think about carrying.... In a good way.

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