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Thread: Did Ga. homeowner 'stand his ground' against man with Alzheimer's?

  1. #1
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    Did Ga. homeowner 'stand his ground' against man with Alzheimer's?

    "Hendrix, 34, told deputies that he confronted Westbrook in his yard, gave him verbal commands and then shot him when he wouldn't respond. Hendrix fired four times, hitting Westbrook in the chest."

    http://www.ajc.com/news/news/crime-l...an-alzh/nb7fy/

    https://news.google.com/news/rtc?ncl...ed444355c1104f
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    I don't see enough information to come to a decision as to if that defense is going to win the day.

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    I am going to need to hear the statements from the shooter as to a believable threat that a reasonable man would find to be real before I give him a pass on this one....

    Despite the description of Georgia law on this, it just don't smell right!

    ETA: he walker must have been cold however---- from the 1st link article " ...had walked three miles wearing just a straw hat and light jacket in sub-freezing temperatures...." I mean no pants, socks, or shoes? Yep, he is a threat! / sarcasm
    Last edited by JoeSparky; 11-30-2013 at 09:44 PM.
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    ISTM not without some 'SD' credibility.

    It's 4AM for cryinoutloud. Wife is on the phone to 911 - she thinks this guy is nuts, prowling to do harm.

    Guy tells the person to leave, stop walking and he didn't shoot him in the back; if he's careful, honest and not hysterical, as a juror, I might not like an epidemic of this, but you don't know he's not a crazy person who might have means to do harm and he's scared your wife.

    OTOH, if the guy says the wrong thing(s) he could be in some difficulty. If the jury is instructed to consider the case based on what the homeowner knew AT THE TIME and not listen to pleading relatives (who should have kept this person secure at home), they can't find the shooter guilty of much.

    Don't know if there's an 'after dark' rule in that state which regular attempted B&E is deemed more serious than in the daytime.

    I can't say I blame the guy who shot, though I don't like it.
    Last edited by Maverick9; 12-01-2013 at 12:36 AM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    ISTM not without some 'SD' credibility.

    It's 4AM for cryinoutloud. Wife is on the phone to 911 - she thinks this guy is nuts, prowling to do harm.

    Guy tells the person to leave, stop walking and he didn't shoot him in the back; if he's careful, honest and not hysterical, as a juror, I might not like an epidemic of this, but you don't know he's not a crazy person who might have means to do harm and he's scared your wife.

    OTOH, if the guy says the wrong thing(s) he could be in some difficulty. If the jury is instructed to consider the case based on what the homeowner knew AT THE TIME and not listen to pleading relatives (who should have kept this person secure at home), they can't find the shooter guilty of much.

    Don't know if there's an 'after dark' rule in that state which regular attempted B&E is deemed more serious than in the daytime.

    I can't say I blame the guy who shot, though I don't like it.
    In reading the link where it indicated the boyfriend got "no response" from the late night walker, I took it as he was just standing there not doing anything---- If my take on this is incorrect I will be very glad to change my initial assessment.
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  6. #6
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    Walker? Naw, this is a total zombie! Plus it's in Georgia, where Walking Dead is supposedly located. The guy could just claim Zombie defense, and probably win, since anything that walks miles in sub-freezing conditions with little clothes on and doesn't respond, and is in Georgia, is a zombie.
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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    In reading the link where it indicated the boyfriend got "no response" from the late night walker, I took it as he was just standing there not doing anything---- If my take on this is incorrect I will be very glad to change my initial assessment.
    IMO, if Ga has a stand your ground law, if your yard, garage, surrounding buildings, house, property is all the same "under the law"...

    If Ga has an 'after dark' law, where simple B&E in daytime becomes a felony 'after dark'...

    If it was in the early hours, 2-3-4am where some predators like to ply their trade...

    If the wife was truly scared - on the phone to 911...

    If the BG did not leave when commanded to - 'leave or I'll shoot you...'

    If the Victim (Homeowner) is elderly, disabled, female alone...

    And if 4 of 6 of these are covered (roughly), AS A JUROR, I'd find the shoot a good one, the HO no charges.

    Now, hold on a second, because again, I don't like this use of a firearm. There's no 'gravest extreme' element. There were other options. But Ga law does not require this on your property (AFAIK).

    I don't like it because you should avoid 'going outside' if the cops are a few minutes away. That's an element of 'hunting'.

    I don't like it when people arrive home see the door open and arm up and go 'house clearing' - element of 'hunting', and extremely dangerous - it could be your relative in there for one thing. (I don't like the cops clearing either).

    But IF WE START SPLITTING HAIRS on the SYG laws, it's a very bad thing.

    Three necessary elements:
    On your property, didn't immediately obey a command by the HO to leave, after dark - you risk getting killed. Simple.

    Doesn't matter if you're hard of hearing, demented, stupid, brazen. That's hair splitting.

    What the facts are - we know those three elements are satisfied - IDK. If the HO runs his mouth he could get excoriated in the press - bad for the SYG law, thus I DON'T LIKE IT. Reasonable use of that law perpetuates it.
    ----

    I asked my wife. She said 'if a person tried to get in my door after dark, I'd try to check the window (clear sight) and if it's an elderly person, looking lost, I might let them in. (Me:NO!) She said it might be a neighbor who's confused (Me: And could kill you in their dementia).

    BUT, I said 'what if this elderly neighbor after pounding ringing bell, went to their car, got a crowbar and tried to get in the door (thinking it was their house?). She said, if the door pops open, I'm shooting them.

    HERE, I said 'no, if an elderly person, moving slowly but persistently, I'd prefer the baseball bat solution (tip to the chin), or the shotgun butt stroke to the solar plexus, with you backing me up, because I don't want to kill an elderly neighbor in my doorway.'

    Haha, she did not like that. Anyway...food for thought.

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    To ALL Whom are Concerned:

    Georgia Code 16-3-23 has Certain Verbiage that Allows a Person to Use Deadly Force if another Person is Breaking into Their Home or Committing an Act of Violence to Gain Entry into The Home. However, 16-3-23 Applies to a 'Dwelling', and Stops Short of 'Property'.

    In This Case..., it is Undisputed based upon The Reports that The Man with Alzheimers' was NOT Attempting to Break into The House.

    However, 16-3-21 Provides Self Defense for Your Personal Protection..., but again, The Man with Alzheimers was NOT, in My Opinion, Endangering anyone Directly. However, I can Imagine that in The Dark, in Rural Georgia, it would be Hard to Differentiate between Those Facts, Especially after You give a Verbal Command to Someone who You do not Know who is on Your Property at that Late Hour.

    To make Matters Worse..., The Man with Alzheimers Started to Walk toward The Man even after being Told to Stop.

    The Man who Shot that Guy Probably would not have done so if He Knew that He was Dealing with an Elderly Person with Alzheimers, instead of a Figure who He could have full-well Considered a Dangerous Trespasser.

    It Truly is a Sad Situation for Everyone Involved...

    aadvark

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    I would like to add that if one had the right to shoot anyone on his land then this would not be an issue at all.

  10. #10
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    You do have the right to shoot anyone on your land. The state has a duty to prosecute you for exercising your right if the exercise of your right was not justified under the law.

    Depends on the story, and if the wife's and husband's stories are even close to being the same. Two folks is more convincing than one. Cops ain't dumb, this includes southern cops.

  11. #11
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    I am not defending or convicting the shooter not enough information.

    The person who was shot didn't have a weapon did he issue threats or just didn't obey commands.

    I personally have had hundreds of unarmed people that didn't obey commands when I was on the job.
    the use of deadly force against them would have been total inappropriate.

    Mostly they were stupide acting drunks and druggies that were not thinking clearly. Some had other problems.

    Were some of them dangerous, for sure did they deserve to be shot or killed no.

    If a person is truly a threat to your life or capable of doing you great bodily harm I would have no trouble using the appropriate amount of force.

    This case is why people who carry firearms really need to think about their options when confronting some one.

    Those who only relay on their firearm as their only option could very well end up on the wrong side of the law.

    The I well shoot anybody that is illegally on my property or in my house first, really are setting them selves up for trouble.

    One really needs to consider training, tactics, equipment and cover when confronting some one. Walking out into the yard confronting some one really limits ones choices. Issuing commands from the house or behind cover gives one a lot more options then doing so from out in the open.

    If in the proper position and the person is not armed or even armed with a contact weapon one can issued a lot of commands before it becomes necessary to use deadly force.

    There are going to be times where shooting is not going to be the proper option are your trained and mentally prepared for that or are you just relying on your firearm to solve all problems for you.

    Preplanning,pre thinking about what could happen, training and possibly having other options available could very well keep one out of jail or spending a lot of money doing so.

    If all one has in their tool box is a hammer then every thing becomes a nail.
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  12. #12
    Regular Member mark5019's Avatar
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    well i look at it this way they called for the leos why did he have to confront the old man? if he came in threw window, door im ok with shoot, but they didnt have to go out. if it turns out im wrong fine but as we have heard its not a justified shoot, yes was legal but i say bs
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    Regular Member cirrusly's Avatar
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    Sad result. Staying in the home instead of going outside to confront the potential criminal / attacker would have been a wiser decision.
    I want to keep our founding fathers' visions and rights for this country pure. I implore you to do the same.

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