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Thread: Almost time boys and girls

  1. #1
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Almost time boys and girls

    A little more than a month


  2. #2
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    What is VCDL's Agenda? Do they deserve our support?

    We know what VCDL is against.

    We do not know what VCDL will promote this legislative session.

    It is important that we know what they will support and what they will strongly support before we hitch a horse to their wagon.

    I am not trying to start another divisive discussion, just trying to be informed and inform others about all of the VCDL Agenda.

    Live Free or Die,
    Thundar
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  3. #3
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    We know what VCDL is against.

    We do not know what VCDL will promote this legislative session.

    It is important that we know what they will support and what they will strongly support before we hitch a horse to their wagon.

    I am not trying to start another divisive discussion, just trying to be informed and inform others about all of the VCDL Agenda.

    Live Free or Die,
    Thundar
    I don't know what VCDL's agenda is Thundar....I doubt they have more than a rough outline....It doesn't matter though. Lobby day is for everyone, lots of groups and I'm encouraging hunters to come....not to join VCDL .....rather, to show ourselves as gun owners.

    There's also Sunday Hunting.

    I'll encourage them to join or not, depending on VCDL positions.
    Last edited by peter nap; 12-01-2013 at 04:47 PM.

  4. #4
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    VCDL has a very extensive "wish list" from Constitutional Carry down to the mundane correction of wording efforts.

    The thing that we seem to forget is VCDL does not sponsor the bills. That takes a senator or delegate who agrees with the presentation/proposal, is convinced that it stands a reasonable chance of making it through committees, both houses, and (important this year) will be veto proof.

    So when you wait n' see, don't be guilty of being a fair weather friend and only stand behind VCDL when they do precisely what you want and when you want it. A lot more goes into a bill making it out of the back room than simply being on our wish list. Wish it were that easy.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    when our elected officials look outside and see an ocean of "guns save lives" stickers it just might get their attention.
    lets all be there and be an orange ocean!!!
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    I would gladly trade GRNC for VCDL.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
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  7. #7
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I would gladly trade GRNC for VCDL.
    At one time WW, VCDL was what GRNC is. Young organizations simply fight harder.

    I often disagree with VCDL's positions,,,there have been years when I didn't like a single thing they did. But I'm still a member because they are really the only show in town and do push for good bills.

    Contrary to popular opinion, Constitutional Carry is in their sights. There's no sense in wasting much time this year and I doubt for the next four years though.

    Unity...numbers and activism are important now. That's coming hard but hopefully by lobby day, we can all put our differences aside.

    One doesn't have to be a member to be active. The membership doesn't nearly equal the Alerts.

    There needs to be a giant WE...on lobby day.
    Last edited by peter nap; 12-01-2013 at 06:47 PM.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VaGunTrader View Post
    when our elected officials look outside and see an ocean of "guns save lives" stickers it just might get their attention.
    lets all be there and be an orange ocean!!!
    I agree with your statement but the "Quote" isn't quite accurate......
    http://whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO.../2ndQuotes.php


    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    At one time WW, VCDL was what GRNC is. Young organizations simply fight harder.

    I often disagree with VCDL's positions,,,there have been years when I didn't like a single thing they did. But I'm still a member because they are really the only show in town and do push for good bills.

    Contrary to popular opinion, Constitutional Carry is in their sights. There's no sense in wasting much time this year and I doubt for the next four years though.

    Unity...numbers and activism are important now. That's coming hard but hopefully by lobby day, we can all put our differences aside.

    One doesn't have to be a member to be active. The membership doesn't nearly equal the Alerts.

    There needs to be a giant WE...on lobby day.

    1+
    Last edited by Marco; 12-01-2013 at 07:54 PM.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


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  9. #9
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I don't know what VCDL's agenda is Thundar....I doubt they have more than a rough outline....It doesn't matter though. Lobby day is for everyone, lots of groups and I'm encouraging hunters to come....not to join VCDL .....rather, to show ourselves as gun owners.

    There's also Sunday Hunting.

    I'll encourage them to join or not, depending on VCDL positions.
    OK, that is fair. Come and support gun rights, not VCDL.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    OK, that is fair. Come and support gun rights, not VCDL.
    Please reread my most previous post #4.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Please reread my most previous post #4.
    I did read your post Grapeshot, and I tried to leave it alone.

    First, it is not unreasonable to know what one is lobbying for when asked to come to Lobby Day. My question was not meant to instigate any sort of bickering, but to understand what VCDL was going to advocate for this year.

    Second, I responded to Peter, who started the thread, and tried to deliver a message broader than VCDL. It was, I thought, the right approach and I agreed to it.

    Third, You speak of being a VCDL fair weather friend as if we owe some sort of loyalty to VCDL. Ha! I and others like me have not abandoned VCDL. VCDL has abandoned us with their blind support of Republicans, instead of the most pro gun individuals.

    Fourth, VCDL may be the only show in town for YOU, but this is certainly not the case for everybody else.

    Live Free or Die,
    Thundar
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  12. #12
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    I did read your post Grapeshot, and I tried to leave it alone.

    First, it is not unreasonable to know what one is lobbying for when asked to come to Lobby Day. My question was not meant to instigate any sort of bickering, but to understand what VCDL was going to advocate for this year.

    Second, I responded to Peter, who started the thread, and tried to deliver a message broader than VCDL. It was, I thought, the right approach and I agreed to it.

    Third, You speak of being a VCDL fair weather friend as if we owe some sort of loyalty to VCDL. Ha! I and others like me have not abandoned VCDL. VCDL has abandoned us with their blind support of Republicans, instead of the most pro gun individuals.

    Fourth, VCDL may be the only show in town for YOU, but this is certainly not the case for everybody else.

    Live Free or Die,
    Thundar
    As I was saying earlier Thundar....lobby day is not a VCDL event. We and I mean gun owners, hunters, even dog hunters, target shooters, chippers....everyone except the nuts which have been showing up lately, need to put up a massive front.

    It's no secret that Grapeshot and I are friends but regardless, I have the highest respect for him and his influence with VCDL. The same for Dennis and a few others.
    Not so much for a few others.

    Despite any differences, if we don't fight together now....we all lose. That doesn't mean agreeing on an agenda, just a mass showing with a common FU Terry theme.

    You and I both know that the only difference between a Democrat and a Republican is the Republicans throw better parties and drink more.

    It won't take much crossing of party lines to ruin our day.

  13. #13
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    I did read your post Grapeshot, and I tried to leave it alone.

    First, it is not unreasonable to know what one is lobbying for when asked to come to Lobby Day. My question was not meant to instigate any sort of bickering, but to understand what VCDL was going to advocate for this year.

    Second, I responded to Peter, who started the thread, and tried to deliver a message broader than VCDL. It was, I thought, the right approach and I agreed to it.

    Third, You speak of being a VCDL fair weather friend as if we owe some sort of loyalty to VCDL. Ha! I and others like me have not abandoned VCDL. VCDL has abandoned us with their blind support of Republicans, instead of the most pro gun individuals.

    Fourth, VCDL may be the only show in town for YOU, but this is certainly not the case for everybody else.

    Live Free or Die,
    Thundar
    Please do not leave it alone. Give considered weight to the 1st & 2nd paragraphs.

    VCDL has a very extensive "wish list" from Constitutional Carry down to the mundane correction of wording efforts.

    The thing that we seem to forget is VCDL does not sponsor the bills. That takes a senator or delegate who agrees with the presentation/proposal, is convinced that it stands a reasonable chance of making it through committees, both houses, and (important this year) will be veto proof.
    Do not blame VCDL for the political climate of the GA. VCDL is already in the trenches and working diligently to accomplish whatever we can.

    United we stand (numbers mean something)...........or we ain't worth spit.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    I really hope people come to lobby day as a whole. The gun community seems so divided lately. It's very important, we band together now more than ever.

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    Regular Member george11c's Avatar
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    Hm, I should go. It is my birthday that day so it would be a good way to spend a day. Is anybody from the Fredericksburg area going?
    "If I don't deserve the credit, then why do I deserve the blame?" - Peacemaker by The Steeldrivers

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Don't miss this one !

    Quote Originally Posted by george11c View Post
    Hm, I should go. It is my birthday that day so it would be a good way to spend a day. Is anybody from the Fredericksburg area going?
    We will be descending in mass from all over the state.

    Though there is work to be done, it is the biggest pro party of the year - put faces to the people on line here, interact with new people/make new friends, learn from the experiences of others, and eat hearty at a selection of great restaurants.

    As the date gets closer, look for people that will be looking for ride sharing. Also several charter buses are usually arranged.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    We will be descending in mass from all over the state.
    Grape, look at this:

    HB 48 Possession of firearms following conviction of certain crimes; penalty.
    Marcus B. Simon-Elect
    Possession of firearms following conviction of certain crimes; penalty. Prohibits any person who is convicted of stalking, sexual battery, or assault and battery of a family member that results in serious bodily injury from possessing, transporting, or carrying a firearm or any other weapon for a period of five years following his conviction. A violation would constitute a Class 6 felony. The bill also provides for the forfeiture of any weapon possessed, transported, or carried in violation of the prohibition. Finally, the bill provides for a process by which a violator may petition the circuit court for a reinstatement of his rights to possess, transport, or carry a weapon.

    Possession of firearms following conviction of certain crimes; penalty. Prohibits any person who is convicted of stalking, sexual battery, or assault and battery of a family member that results in serious bodily injury from possessing, transporting, or carrying a firearm or any other weapon for a period of five years following his conviction. A violation would constitute a Class 6 felony. The bill also provides for the forfeiture of any weapon possessed, transported, or carried in violation of the prohibition. Finally, the bill provides for a process by which a violator may petition the circuit court for a reinstatement of his rights to possess, transport, or carry a weapon.
    A Gun-Grabbing bill by a Progressive newbie -- evidently this is what gun-rights activists (of all persuasions) are going to have to deal with.

    As Peter said, it's gonna be a L O N G Session.

  18. #18
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Repeater View Post
    Grape, look at this:

    HB 48 Possession of firearms following conviction of certain crimes; penalty.
    Marcus B. Simon-Elect
    Possession of firearms following conviction of certain crimes; penalty. Prohibits any person who is convicted of stalking, sexual battery, or assault and battery of a family member that results in serious bodily injury from possessing, transporting, or carrying a firearm or any other weapon for a period of five years following his conviction. A violation would constitute a Class 6 felony. The bill also provides for the forfeiture of any weapon possessed, transported, or carried in violation of the prohibition. Finally, the bill provides for a process by which a violator may petition the circuit court for a reinstatement of his rights to possess, transport, or carry a weapon.

    Possession of firearms following conviction of certain crimes; penalty. Prohibits any person who is convicted of stalking, sexual battery, or assault and battery of a family member that results in serious bodily injury from possessing, transporting, or carrying a firearm or any other weapon for a period of five years following his conviction. A violation would constitute a Class 6 felony. The bill also provides for the forfeiture of any weapon possessed, transported, or carried in violation of the prohibition. Finally, the bill provides for a process by which a violator may petition the circuit court for a reinstatement of his rights to possess, transport, or carry a weapon
    .

    A Gun-Grabbing bill by a Progressive newbie -- evidently this is what gun-rights activists (of all persuasions) are going to have to deal with.

    As Peter said, it's gonna be a L O N G Session.
    For Class 6 felonies, the jury or court already may choose imprisonment for one to five years or jail for up to 12 months and a fine of up to $2,500, either or both.

    As a convicted felon, the actor could not own/possess guns already, so why this proposed legislation? Simple - it adds to the punishment AND takes the guns out of the possible hands of friends or family and with no opportunity to sell them........just forfeit them.

    Sure one could petition the court for reinstatement (we already have that), but how likely when he/she is a convicted felon?

    This bill is plain and simple a GUN GRAB.

    V.. e.. r.. y .....L .. o .. n .. g .....S.. e.. s .. s.. i.. o.. n

    Am going to have to learn to play the banjo
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 12-04-2013 at 04:08 PM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post

    This bill is plain and simple a GUN GRAB.
    Yes; that will be their theme for next year. See where Simon-Elect stands on the issue that concerns US:

    Gun Violence Prevention

    I have long been a proponent of common sense restrictions on the purchase and sale of firearms in the Commonwealth. One of the first big victories I remember from my days as Jim Scott's legislative assistant was the passage of Virginia's one handgun a month bill in 1993. Twenty years later how does the Virginia General Assembly respond to tragedies like those we witnessed in Newton Connecticut and on the Campus of Virginia Tech? By repealing the one gun a month restriction in 2013. There was no reason to repeal this common sense legislation in Virginia that had been in place for nearly two decades, except for the NRA and their allies to flex their political muscle in Richmond.

    As your representative in the House of Delegates I will be a strong advocate for common sense measures like universal background checks for all gun purchases, even those of so-called private sellers at gun shows. I support limiting the size of magazines, empowering localities to make their libraries and teen centers gun-free zones, and reintroducing one handgun a month legislation.
    Simon Says: "Gimme your guns or else!"

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    I'm planning on taking the day off work and being there bright and early. If there's anything I can do, let me know.

    My plan right now is to seek out my reps and present them with my list of demands... once that's done, I'll find PVC or whomever is nearby and submit myself to their orders for the remainder of the day.

  21. #21
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyndsy Simon View Post
    I'm planning on taking the day off work and being there bright and early. If there's anything I can do, let me know.

    My plan right now is to seek out my reps and present them with my list of demands... once that's done, I'll find PVC or whomever is nearby and submit myself to their orders for the remainder of the day.
    It works very effectively to sign up for lobby teams - you can request and get the team with your representative, I believe. That way the Senator or Delegate sees a large group with constituents in it.

    Might want to rethink the "demands" thing if you wish to sway your reps. We do a lot of positive PR, tell them how large were are, and what we'd like to accomplish.......with a smile and a handshake. Then we follow through throughout the session - actually we've already started.

    Look to see you there - I'm the one with the purdy gun
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Lyndsy.....what is usually done is after the teams make their rounds, everyone goes up for individual visits before lunch or depending on the schedule....the rally at the bell tower.

    A sea of orange GSL stickers is a little awe inspiring and rather than demands.....awe is what we want to instill right now.

  23. #23
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    --Moderator edited--
    Go directly to your delegate and let him/her know exactly how you feel. Virginia politics is a contact sport.

    Live Free or Die,
    Thundar
    Thundar - you do VCDL a disservice. You violate the forum rules in attacking VCDL (previous post) and insulting its members, many who have put and will continue to put in long hours to make positive contributions.

    I appreciate you fervor and independant spirit, but there are limits as to what is allowed here.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  24. #24
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    Translation: All we need from you is a warm body to show up and deliver the script we give you. (VCDL Zombie)

    If you agree to be such a VCDL Zombie, I think you deserve to know ahead of time what the VCDL script actually is.

    I recommend you not be a zombie. Go directly to your delegate and let him/her know exactly how you feel. Virginia politics is a contact sport.

    Live Free or Die,
    Thundar
    Come on Thundar....Grapeshot isn't the enemy. If it wasn't for him and to a lesser extent, Dennis Oconner, I'd have burned my membership card a couple if years ago.

    We have a couple of members here that have a great big reason to take a bite out of them. They weren't there when they needed the help most. Near killed one of them.

    But Grapeshot was. Not as a member of the board, but as a brother. He never left either of them.
    Because of that and and because they're better men than I am,,,,,they both still support the organization.

    We're at the point where arguing over silly things like a cake at a celebration is simply suicidal. (Newer members that don't understand that..it's water over the dam) We have to put on a big show and like I said, lobby day doesn't belong to VCDL....it belongs to all of us.

    I'll be there as an OC'er and hunter. I have a hint that the old VCDL that represented us all is returning. If they don't....things haven't changed but if they do......we're back to a real power.
    Last edited by peter nap; 12-05-2013 at 07:48 PM.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Come on Thundar....Grapeshot isn't the enemy. If it wasn't for him and to a lesser extent, Dennis Oconner, I'd have burned my membership card a couple if years ago.

    We have a couple of members here that have a great big reason to take a bite out of them. They weren't there when they needed the help most. Near killed one of them.

    But Grapeshot was. Not as a member of the board, but as a brother. He never left either of them.
    Because of that and and because they're better men than I am,,,,,they both still support the organization.

    We're at the point where arguing over silly things like a cake at a celebration is simply suicidal. (Newer members that don't understand that..it's water over the dam) We have to put on a big show and like I said, lobby day doesn't belong to VCDL....it belongs to all of us.

    I'll be there as an OC'er and hunter. I have a hint that the old VCDL that represented us all is returning. If they don't....things haven't changed but if they do......we're back to a real power.
    It is frustrating Peter. The guy says he is going to first go make his demands of his legislative representatives, then come to the VCDL rally. He is advised not to do that, just follow VCDL script.

    My post was provocative, but was it untruthful or bashing? No, I hope not. It was meant to provoke meaningful thought. The antis have brain dead zombies, not us. But the post does not bow to the VCDL God - BAM post deleted. Grapeshot is a great guy, but sometimes I can't tell whether we are on OCDO's Virginia forum or if we are on VCDL's blog.

    I have some ballot access petitions for the 6th Senate district that need signatures. Maybe I'll just do that for a while. Sometimes people on the street are hostile when you ask for their signature, but it feels more friendly than OCDO lately.

    Thundar
    Last edited by Thundar; 12-05-2013 at 09:04 PM.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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