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Thread: entering/ exiting owned vehicle while OC'ing

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    entering/ exiting owned vehicle while OC'ing

    Just a quick question I have about going around town and entering and exiting my vehicle while ocing?

    Do I have to place my pistol in a case and lock it in the trunk? or can I keep it on my person????? I also heard that I can have the pistol in the car with me as long as it is in plan sight like on the dash?? or seat next to me ? if anyone knows something about this i'd be very thankful to hear back, its a pain in the ass having to secure it in the trunk.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    You should check with the laws within your state but if allowed, your holster is the best place to keep your sidearm. Do not put it on your dash or the passenger seat. Sudden and hard braking or turning will cause that gun to wind up in places where you'd rather it not be.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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    As Southernboy noted, it really depends on the laws of your state - presumably, Wisconsin.

    For example, in Ohio, without a concealed handgun license you must unload and store it properly. Not necessarily in the trunk, but there are specific requirements. In other states there are no such requirements for those without a license.

    I do not know how Wisconsin handles this, but if you haven't asked in the Wisconsin sub-forum you may want to do so because that is probably the best place to get an accurate answer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustaShooter View Post
    As Southernboy noted, it really depends on the laws of your state - presumably, Wisconsin.

    For example, in Ohio, without a concealed handgun license you must unload and store it properly. Not necessarily in the trunk, but there are specific requirements. In other states there are no such requirements for those without a license.

    I do not know how Wisconsin handles this, but if you haven't asked in the Wisconsin sub-forum you may want to do so because that is probably the best place to get an accurate answer.
    same with michigan, must be in a case in the trunk, separated from mags and/or ammo. unless you have a CPL which is the concealed pistol license.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dalivia View Post
    Just a quick question I have about going around town and entering and exiting my vehicle while ocing?

    Do I have to place my pistol in a case and lock it in the trunk? or can I keep it on my person????? I also heard that I can have the pistol in the car with me as long as it is in plan sight like on the dash?? or seat next to me ? if anyone knows something about this i'd be very thankful to hear back, its a pain in the ass having to secure it in the trunk.
    This really should be in the WI forum. In any case here's a link to a thread with info you need when it comes to OC in WI: New to Open Carrying (OC) In WI, Here's what you should know

    If you have a CC license you do not have to unholster, unload, encase while moving in and out of your car. There is some debate, at least in my mind, about what the law allows for those without a CC license. I interpret the law to state the firearm must be visible from outside the vehicle, or encased, for a person with no CC license. Also, knowingly entering within 1000 feet of a school zone with a loaded firearm is not allowed without a CC license.

    PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE read the information in the thread I reference above. Please do not take my word as the final authority on the law of the state. And please read the applicable statutes yourself before considering your question answered.
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    Hi Dalivia, welcome to OCDO.

    The best answer is to get a Concealed Weapons License - http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/cib/...oncealed-carry

    The law on openly carrying in and out of a car is much less clear for this statute and its associated case law -

    https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/doc...utes/ch.%20941

    941.23 Carrying concealed weapon. [ ... ] (2) Any person, other than one of the following, who carries
    a concealed and dangerous weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor: (The exception significant is a CW Licencee)

    These are the case law that will be found at the link URL above.
    To “go armed” does not require going anywhere. The elements for a violation of s. 941.23 are: 1) a dangerous weapon is on the defendant’s person or within reach; 2) the defendant is aware of the weapon’s presence; and 3) the weapon is hidden.
    State v. Keith, 175 Wis. 2d 75, 498 N.W.2d 865 (Ct. App. 1993).
    A handgun on the seat of a car that was indiscernible from ordinary observation by a person outside, and within the immediate vicinity, of the vehicle was hidden from view for purposes of determining whether the gun was a concealed weapon under this section. State v. Walls, 190 Wis. 2d 65, 526 N.W.2d 765 (Ct. App. 1994).
    There may be a member along to dismiss the significance of this case law from Walls 1994, detained, disarmed, charged and acquitted. We are taught "one may beat the rap [the charge] but you will not beat our ride."

    This was my solution from before 2011 Act 35 - https://vimeo.com/6115265

    If you have a personal attorney, these questions would best be answered by him.

    Again, welcome.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 12-03-2013 at 05:52 PM.
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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustaShooter View Post
    As Southernboy noted, it really depends on the laws of your state - presumably, Wisconsin.

    For example, in Ohio, without a concealed handgun license you must unload and store it properly. Not necessarily in the trunk, but there are specific requirements. In other states there are no such requirements for those without a license.

    I do not know how Wisconsin handles this, but if you haven't asked in the Wisconsin sub-forum you may want to do so because that is probably the best place to get an accurate answer.
    I had thought that Ohio was an open carry state. If this is so, couldn't you just leave it in your holster without concealing it? Or must you have a concealed permit to carry openly?
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    I had thought that Ohio was an open carry state. If this is so, couldn't you just leave it in your holster without concealing it? Or must you have a concealed permit to carry openly?
    He is talking about while you are in the car.


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    Regular Member JustaShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    He is talking about while you are in the car.
    Exactly.
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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    He is talking about while you are in the car.


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    Yes I know that.

    Can't you just keep your openly carried sidearm in your holster while in your vehicle or must you have a permit since it would now be considered concealed under those circumstances?
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Get a concealed carry permit and mitigate the issue. Of course the costs associated with getting a CC permit may be a issue. Save your pennies and get the permit. Having the permit will also mitigate many issues if traveling in another state. Research and carry on.

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    Regular Member JustaShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    Can't you just keep your openly carried sidearm in your holster while in your vehicle or must you have a permit since it would now be considered concealed under those circumstances?
    The way I read Ohio law I would say yes, but others disagree. I am unaware of any case law that clarifies the matter so anyone who does so may well get to be the test case. I have my Ohio CHL so I do not have to make that choice.

    To me, getting your CHL is the prudent thing to do - here in Ohio and in other states it allows one to remain armed in more circumstances than would otherwise be legal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    Yes I know that.

    Can't you just keep your openly carried sidearm in your holster while in your vehicle or must you have a permit since it would now be considered concealed under those circumstances?
    No. Absolutely NOT. Anyone saying otherwise should just STOP, until they have been stopped for it, argued their reading of the law in front of a judge, and gotten a favorable ruling. Until that happens, people who don't know the law are being put at risk by folks making wild claims about what the law says.


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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    No. Absolutely NOT. Anyone saying otherwise should just STOP, until they have been stopped for it, argued their reading of the law in front of a judge, and gotten a favorable ruling. Until that happens, people who don't know the law are being put at risk by folks making wild claims about what the law says.


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    So once one enters their vehicle with an openly carried sidearm, it then becomes concealed? Does this also apply to restaurants where someone is seated at a booth and the booth wall is on their strong side?

    Mind you, these are not casual or testing questions. I am seriously curious about this for folks who live in Ohio.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Regular Member JustaShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    So once one enters their vehicle with an openly carried sidearm, it then becomes concealed?
    I can find nothing in the law that says that. Clearly, as you have seen here, there is disagreement among some of the Ohio members here.

    See http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...-few-questions! for a topic where we've discussed much of this (and, in my mind, have not come to a compelling conclusion supported by Ohio law.)
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    In Wisconsin this is covered by case law, to which we are fortunate to have access, might Michigan case law also mention car concealing from ordinary view?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    In Wisconsin this is covered by case law, to which we are fortunate to have access, might Michigan case law also mention car concealing from ordinary view?
    Michigan requires a license (CPL) to carry a concealed pistol on foot or carry (concealed or otherwise) a pistol in a vehicle.

    See Subsection (2):
    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(xcm...me=mcl-750-227

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    Quote Originally Posted by SD40VE View Post
    same with michigan, must be in a case in the trunk, separated from mags and/or ammo. unless you have a CPL which is the concealed pistol license.
    Not so.

    Without a CPL, the pistol must be unloaded, in a case designed for a pistol and locked in the trunk. If your vehicle does not have a trunk, the mentioned conditions (unloaded and in a case) apply and the encased pistol must not be accessible to driver and passengers. The ammo and/or loaded mags can be in the case with the pistol, as long as, the pistol is unloaded. See 750.231a.

    There is however a provision in Michigan law which allows a CPL holder with a measurable BAC, as a driver or passenger in a vehicle without a trunk, to have the unloaded pistol, in a locked container and separate from ammo or loaded mags. If the vehicle has a trunk, it must be transported in the trunk and there's no requirement for the pistol to be unloaded or in a case.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(vx4...me=mcl-28-425k
    Last edited by SpringerXDacp; 12-04-2013 at 05:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    So once one enters their vehicle with an openly carried sidearm, it then becomes concealed? Does this also apply to restaurants where someone is seated at a booth and the booth wall is on their strong side?

    Mind you, these are not casual or testing questions. I am seriously curious about this for folks who live in Ohio.
    It is not so much that it becomes concealed as that a CHL is required to carry concealed or to carry loaded in a car. This is almost the exact situation we had when I lived in Alabama.


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    Quote Originally Posted by JustaShooter View Post
    I can find nothing in the law that says that. Clearly, as you have seen here, there is disagreement among some of the Ohio members here.

    See http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...-few-questions! for a topic where we've discussed much of this (and, in my mind, have not come to a compelling conclusion supported by Ohio law.)
    Here's a compelling conclusion: If someone follows your advice and carries their handgun in its holster, they risk arrest and conviction. How about YOU do it, get arrested for it, and let us know how it comes out.

    YOU are putting others at risk with your legal interpretation.


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    Regular Member JustaShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Here's a compelling conclusion: If someone follows your advice and carries their handgun in its holster, they risk arrest and conviction. How about YOU do it, get arrested for it, and let us know how it comes out.

    YOU are putting others at risk with your legal interpretation.
    I repeat:
    Quote Originally Posted by JustaShooter View Post
    I am unaware of any case law that clarifies the matter so anyone who does so may well get to be the test case. I have my Ohio CHL so I do not have to make that choice.

    To me, getting your CHL is the prudent thing to do - here in Ohio and in other states it allows one to remain armed in more circumstances than would otherwise be legal.
    Also, I am not giving advice, and I have not made a "legal interpretation". I am not a lawyer, all I am doing is presenting how I read the law, which is a very different thing. And, as noted, I have made it abundantly clear that as one of the grey areas in Ohio's law that doing so can put you at risk, and that there are ways to avoid the issue entirely. As I have my Ohio CHL, I am not at risk. Others are free to make their own choices but I have in no way recommended anyone do so and have on many occasions recommended taking actions that eliminate that risk.
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    RSMo 571.030.3. Subdivisions (1)[carries concealed weapon], (5), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section do not apply when the actor is transporting such weapons in a nonfunctioning state or in an unloaded state when ammunition is not readily accessible or when such weapons are not readily accessible. Subdivision (1) of subsection 1 of this section does not apply to any person twenty-one years of age or older or eighteen years of age or older and a member of the United States Armed Forces, or honorably discharged from the United States Armed Forces, transporting a concealable firearm in the passenger compartment of a motor vehicle, so long as such concealable firearm is otherwise lawfully possessed, nor when the actor is also in possession of an exposed firearm or projectile weapon for the lawful pursuit of game, or is in his or her dwelling unit or upon premises over which the actor has possession, authority or control, or is traveling in a continuous journey peaceably through this state. Subdivision (10) of subsection 1 of this section does not apply if the firearm is otherwise lawfully possessed by a person while traversing school premises for the purposes of transporting a student to or from school, or possessed by an adult for the purposes of facilitation of a school-sanctioned firearm-related event or club event.
    No permit to conceal is required in MO. If your are 21+ keep it loaded and on your hip.....or wherever.

    How many veterans, who were honorably discharged, are not 21+? Though, there are other classifications of discharge from the Armed Forces, honorable being only one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JustaShooter View Post
    The way I read Ohio law I would say yes, but others disagree. I am unaware of any case law that clarifies the matter so anyone who does so may well get to be the test case. I have my Ohio CHL so I do not have to make that choice. To me, getting your CHL is the prudent thing to do - here in Ohio and in other states it allows one to remain armed in more circumstances than would otherwise be legal.
    Since this has been moved to Wisconsin's sub-forum and OPie hails from Wisconsin, here is Wisconsin's case law on point.

    To “go armed” does not require going anywhere. The elements for a violation of s. 941.23 are: 1) a dangerous weapon is on the defendant’s person or within reach; 2) the defendant is aware of the weapon’s presence; and 3) the weapon is hidden.
    State v. Keith, 175 Wis. 2d 75, 498 N.W.2d 865 (Ct. App. 1993).

    A handgun on the seat of a car that was indiscernible from ordinary observation by a person outside, and within the immediate vicinity, of the vehicle was hidden from view for purposes of determining whether the gun was a concealed weapon under this section. State v. Walls, 190 Wis. 2d 65, 526 N.W.2d 765 (Ct. App. 1994). https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/doc...utes/ch.%20941
    For those unfamiliar with Wisconsin, case law is made, and unmade - overturned, by an appellate court or higher.
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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Having a loaded handgun in a vehicle restriction was removed under 167.31. For whatever reason, some people think that 941.23 pertains to vehicles (especially since a vehicle is classified as your castle under 895.62).

    IANAL
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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    For whatever reason, some people think that 941.23 pertains to vehicles
    Some people like the WI Legislative Bureau, WI DOJ, WI Attorney General, and even our representatives who voted on Act 35...
    .
    .
    .
    The reality is that there is zero basis to believe that it would not apply to vehicles. You will find the word "CASTLE" nowhere in any applicable WI Statutes or Administrative code. You do however find an exception to 941.23 for
    dwelling or place of business or on land that he or she owns, leases, or legally occupies.
    Your vehicle is not typically your "dwelling" and definitely not your Castle, whatever that may be..

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